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Kevin's Inglenook Junction - Small Layouts,Planks and Micros - Model Railway Layouts. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 10:03 pm
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Barchester
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Ron I THINK Kevin is getting a short as soon as he connects the 2 boards together and turns the controller on ?
Not sure if he gets as far as running a loco ?    I think the fault shows up even if Kevin switches the wires over connecting from one board to the other 
  
Hopefully Kevin will post a response when he sees our posts

We will try and get some photos up tomorrow which should help  :thumbs

Cheers

Matt

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 10:23 pm
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Hi Ron.  One incarnation of the short was for the alarming flashier on the screen, without the presence of a Loco..Tonight I have taken photos of the wiring under the baseboards, but I cannot remember how to upload the SD disc onto the laptop. “My tiredness has got the better of me “ , weak excuse but very true. Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 10:27 pm
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Hi Matt. Your Avatar? Has got a strong resemblance to me and the way I am feeling, just in time for bed.Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 10:42 pm
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Barchester
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The Avatar Kevin ?  Thats old Barchester wandering the dusty corridors and hidden passage ways of YMRC  wandering through the cellars, rattling about in the attic, rummaging in cupboards, dusting  off and restoring old photos and fixing broken links. . . Shhhhh if you listen carefully you might just here him wandering about in the dead of night  :hmm

Gnight, sleep well tomorrow  is another day  :thumbs

Cheers


Matt

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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 06:30 am
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Hi Matt.    That just about sums me up. Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 06:42 am
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Hi Ron. Thank you for your reply. But,  You got me wrong Ron. When the baseboards “A “ and “ B “ are lying in a line It is only then that ( looking from the underside) that the Black is at the back and the Red is at the front..
Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 08:23 am
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How do you know everything is ok on the fiddle yard board Kevin, when it's not attached to the layout board, which board has the PCP panel attached to it?


Ed



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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 09:24 am
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Hi Ed.  Thank you for your reply. I have another independent inglenook, which has its own PCP. And when I tested the fiddleyard, I borrowed that PCP and wired it in on a temporary basis. To carry out the test. Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 09:31 am
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I take it, it's disconnected now Kevin.

I was just think out loud and thought if you did still have a PCP on the fiddle yard board, it would make both boards work ok independently, but if one PCP was wired the other way around, they would short when put together.


Ed



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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 09:55 am
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Hi Ed.   Yes I disconnected the PCP and returned it to the 9” wide Inglenook, a design that I borrowed from g0ibi ,just to see how I would get on with such a narrow plank. Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 12:11 pm
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Hi Kevin,

Interesting conundrum here. Normally when you install a second PCP for a second loconet controller, it is not a power source, not connected to the power bus and not capable of programming a decoder. Do you have a loconet cable (RJ12 with reversed ends) between the PCPs? Or did you just wire it to the bus? The reason why there are 2 sockets in the PCP is one for power/control, one for control.

That scenic break will get in the way of seeing what is going on, so perhaps moving the control panel to the middle and on the side and having a demountable shelf with crocodile connectors from the PCP to the bus might give you the sight lines. Or just having the PCP on the side in the middle? The flexible cable from the controller is good for at least 3 feet.

Why not take a break from poking around with the wires and draw the circuit diagram and take a photo? Then we can see what you have done and make pertinent suggestions. I have been following along and I think I understand. Maybe.

Even if you did inadvertently wire the second PCP opposite to the first it shouldn't affect operations as long as there were not 2 control units plugged in and they were not connected by loconet cables. Although thinking about it could as they would both be connected to the bus. Carry on and before long you will find yourself in power districts dealing with multiple independent power sources. With a short scenic board and a fiddle yard I doubt you need more than one PCP and one power controller. I have had my Powercab system running 4-6 4-foot modules using crocodile clips and one PCP.

Already said I think, but remove the second PCP and just connect the fiddle yard with bananas, having checked the polarity with the multimeter.


Nigel



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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 02:40 pm
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Hi Nigel .  Thank you. I will answer your question to the best of my ability?  But here goes. The PCP was borrowed from another Inglenook, as a temporary measure during a test, and returned directly after, to make certain that the fiddleyard was wired okay. My system is the NCE Powercab, the only cables I have are the ones that came with it.I have taken a couple of wiring photos, but, I have forgotten how to upload them to the laptop. But surely as both boards work individually, they should work via whatever type of plugs and sockets one chooses, whether it be the straightforward “ banana “ or any other type. Black to Black and Red to Red. Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 06:20 pm
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These PCP units you mention Kevin  i assume they are plug in points for your Powercab handheld?

Check the bus wires connections on them are not reversed as they would have worked individually ok but when you join the boards together that would cause a short.

The photos will help if you can  upload them.


Brian



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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 06:57 pm
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Hi Brian have you seen the “Banana Plug “ as illustrated by Ron??? Simples! Either one Red or Black Plug orone Black or Red Socket per Bus. I will load some photos soon, but, today I have been very busy with BT:off topic.who have made a # of my account , no account = no YMRC, sorry for going off topic.  Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 07:09 pm
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Hi Kevin,

Understood. Have a break, brew some tea, watch some ootoob.

Re Brian's comment. Connecting two PCP boards to the bus in what is the same sector could be an issue. Even with the correct polarity. I think the PowerCab has to be connected to the bus using 1 PCP. The PowerCab also expects the second board to be a signal only board connected to the PCP via a reversed RJ12 cable, and not attached to the power bus. Which is what a basic controller plugs into. Another PowerCab unit can be plugged in but only to the LocoNet socket.  I think. Have to check the manual.
Never tried it so just guessing. NCE would know. Bus power to 2 PCPs could be a no-no. The internal wiring could in fact reverse the polarity causing a fault/error message.

Nigel



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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 08:01 pm
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Yes Kevin i saw the banana plug i understand what you mean now.

RE the PCP Nigel may well be on the right track there as you would probably connect them through loconet using a cat5 cable or whatever they use and the first one would only be connected to the bus wires. That to me sounds logical as S88 bus works in a similar manner. Im not a Powercab user so i would not know what exact connections they use.

Off topic
RE BT Kevin i have been trying to renew my broadband contract for 2 weeks now they are a nightmare to deal with for a communications company they are useless


Brian



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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 08:40 pm
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I think you have got it Nigel i looked on the NCE site  there is a diagram it shows 1 PCP connected to the bus and transformer power to it

The only connection between the 2 PCP boards is what they are calling a Powercab flat cable.

And no bus connection or  transformer power connection to the second PCP board.


Brian







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 Posted: Mon Apr 8th, 2019 09:12 pm
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Spot on Brian. The NCE web site says that 2 PCP units cannot be connected either by track or control buses.

"For this reason, you cannot move the Power Cab to different panel locations without a few changes to the layout. The reason for this is that the actual track power on the rails and the power from the wall transformer BOTH go through the Handset / Cab directly. If you unplug the Power Cab you have no track power and all locomotives will stop instantly. This also means that to use different panels and different locations you would have to move the track and wall power connections on the rear of panel each time."


"If you wish to use the Power Cab in two completely separate locations such as a work bench and a layout that can be done by having two P114 power supplies and two (PCP) power cab panels. one set in each location. The two locations cannot be electrically connected or have a connection via track."

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/207811543-Moving-the-Power-Cab-to-a-different-panel-location

Kevin, If you did not disconnect the first PCP from the power bus and simply wired in the second PCP to the fiddle yard via banana junctions that is probably what is/was causing the problem. If you want two Cab throttles what you need is a UTP (Universal Throttle Panel) and a second controller - Cab06 Engineer - and a length of RJ12 reversed to connect them. That way you can control the yard and the scenic part separately. One in the middle would suffice though. Get 2 cab holders and attach them to the sides.

Nigel




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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 05:43 am
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Did anybody read post #110 :???:


Ed



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 Posted: Tue Apr 9th, 2019 07:07 am
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Hi Nigel.  Thank you for your reply. But, But, But, ( that is my impersonation of an outboard)I keep repeating myself. When I wired the “ borrowed ”PCP to the fiddleyard, there was no other connection,
It was an exercise to see how the fiddleyard worked by itself and to prove that there was no short circuits present.
The PCP hs been reconnected to the four foot by nine inch Inglenook. Best wishes Kevin 



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