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Kevin's Inglenook Junction - Small Layouts,Planks and Micros - Model Railway Layouts. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Sat Apr 6th, 2019 08:39 pm
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Briperran
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So just to clarify this we are still at the stage we were in your 45th post is this correct?

Just trying to get the stake back in the ground so we all can help you.


Brian



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 Posted: Sat Apr 6th, 2019 08:46 pm
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Barchester
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Brian I think where we are is. . Kevin traced one fault to a DPDT switch on one separate board and cleared THAT fault so both boards when powered up with feeds from controller separately, work ok but when Kevin powers one board and connects the second board via jumpers he gets a dead short. . My theiry is crossed wires between the boards so hopefully after a good nights sleep Kevin will try switching the jumpers over on ONE board to see if that clears the dead short    :thumbs
Cheers

Matt

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 Posted: Sat Apr 6th, 2019 08:47 pm
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Passed Driver
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Hi Brian.  Thank you. Yes. But of course I realise that the short must be on the connecting jumpers. But on both boards there are two wires , which as far as I can see are isolated, following an idea from Matt, as illogical as it sounds, I am going to reverse the jumpers tomorrow , just for a laugh.  Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sat Apr 6th, 2019 08:53 pm
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Briperran
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Thankyou Matt  Kevin seems we are back to clarity now hopefully in the morning when you switch the wires as suggested the problem will be resolved.

Brian



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 Posted: Sat Apr 6th, 2019 08:59 pm
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Passed Driver
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Hi Brian. But the illogical thing is black to red bus, that is why even this isn’t DC . But AC we have one red bus  with all the red droppers going to the red bus . And all the black droppers going to the black bus.  Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sat Apr 6th, 2019 09:03 pm
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Briperran
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Passed Driver wrote: Hi Brian. But the illogical thing is black to red bus, that is why even this isn’t DC . But AC we have one red bus  with all the red droppers going to the red bus . And all the black droppers going to the black bus.  Best wishes Kevin Yes you are correct Kevin but just do as Matt has told you in the morning and see if there is still a short when the boards are connected.

If there is no short we will all know straight away what the problem is

Brian



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 Posted: Sat Apr 6th, 2019 09:09 pm
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Hello Kevin sorry about my silly last post, sat here twiddling my thumbs with nowt much to do, I couldn't resist trying to be funny.The trestles I was waiting for the glue to dry on, were not trestles to support a layout, I am currently remodelling my Layout "Knottworthy Magna in 7mm 0/16.5", pictures on this site if you want to see. 

The layout has a trestle bridge over a modelled river, and the trestles were to support the bridge on the model, they stand all of 2"  (50mm) high and are made of modelling wood from the pound shop. :lol:

Hope you've got your problem sorted out now,

Regards,

BrianT.

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 Posted: Sat Apr 6th, 2019 09:17 pm
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Hi Brian.   Thank you. Yes I am going to do just that . Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sat Apr 6th, 2019 09:21 pm
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Hi Brian T.  Thank you. No, it is them flaming gremlins again .Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sat Apr 6th, 2019 11:22 pm
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Barry Miltenburg
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Hi Kevin

I have followed this thread somewhat from a distance and have come to realise that a certain amount of confusion arises when various topics are discussed inter-twined with each other.

The question of short circuits mixed with comments about trestles, scenery and old films has left me (and perhaps others) somewhat bamboozled.

Can I suggest that this thread simply concentrates (for now) on the question of the short circuits so that when someone asks a question and expects and answer (often just "yes" or "no") you simply give such an answer.  There is no need to try to make a reply witty or amusing - your electrical issues are a serious matter for you and the community is trying to give you serious support.  When asked for a "yes" or "no", just say "yes" or "no" please.

The recent run of posts asked whether you had sorted out the short circuits between the two boards and I must confess, despite a number of your replies, I am none the wiser.

If you are able, photos, diagrams and pictures often speak a thousand words.  Try drawing a picture or diagram, photograph it and post the photo if that is the easiest way around.

If you are asked a question, please answer JUST that question.  When the boards are running well, THEN we can start talking about tunnel mouths, scenery and all the other stuff.

There are  number of people all trying to help but you need to help them to help you.  We are all on your side here mate - I am sure that with some clear answers we can nail this and get you moving forward.

Kind regards

Barry

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 06:58 am
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Hi Barry.  Thank you. Yes I agree with everything that you said. Let’s begin again. At first, I built a 4’x 14” Inglenook Puzzle. And believe it or not everything worked, no shorts. “Shunting to and fro”. That is a Yes!But, then along came the idea of running passenger trains, and another plank which clamped on to the Inglenook, and everything worked. But out of the blue, I began with the short circuits. And everything went to pot.    With the help of a Gentleman of this Parish, my Laptop is now working and I can at last post the photos that Members have requested.    Now I have got to the present. The Multimeter does work, but I think that it requires a new battery.
I have established that the current short circuit is at the rail gap between the baseboards and only occurs when the baseboards are connected. As far as diagrams or photos are concerned, I will take a photo of the underside of the baseboards and do a diagram, as best I can. Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 08:33 am
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So, to clarify Kevin -

You have 2 boards - Board A and Board B - never mind what's on them - they're just "boards" for now.

Board A runs perfectly with locos able to go everywhere and with points set in all directions.

Board B runs perfectly with locos able to go everywhere and with points set in all directions.

When you join Board A to Board B (with just 2 linking wires) you get a short circuit.

Is that correct - just "yes" or "no" please ..................................



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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 09:20 am
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Hi Petermac. Thank you for your reply. Yes that is correct. And the two wires ( Jumpers) one red and one black are wired directly from the bus to either a Banana Plug on A to a Banana Socket on B, sounds and looks straightforward.Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 09:43 am
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Barchester
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Wait Kevin you never mentioned the Banana. . You cant plug in a Banana ! It wont end well  :mutley
Ok first step I would try is as I mentioned. . . Switch over ONE  end of the connecting leads and see what that does

Cheers 

Matt

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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 09:49 am
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OK Kevin - we're getting somewhere now.

When you stand at the "front" of the boards (not connected), which rail is connected to your red bus - the "front" rail or the "rear" rail ?

Is it the same on both boards - i.e. "front rail (let's say) red" and "rear rail" (let's say) black ? 

Front or rear to red and the other to black isn't important but it must be the same on both boards.


Sorry, I crossed with Matt's post.  Do what he suggests first ..................................



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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 10:04 am
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Hi Matt. Thank you for your reply. Was the:mutley banana comment meant as a joke? Banana Plugs and Sockets.I haven’t tried to swap the jumpers yet, but will when I return from the shopping. Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 10:16 am
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Hi Petermac . Thank you. Getting somewhere ? I was in the cab with my cuppa waiting to make the return trip.Originally the Inglenook had the “ Black bus to the rear, simples, Black at the back! But then I reorganised it and the Black Bus is now at the front on both baseboards . And all the Red wires go to the red bus. And all the Black Wires go to the Black bus. Yes, back to the Sherlock Holmes quote? Even though it sounds illogical! Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 12:27 pm
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I was always taught ' Eliminate the obvious then the improbable' and then rip it out and do it again  :brickwall
Switching the feed wires just eliminates the obvious. . Then eat the banana. . . Then we move on to photos of the underside to see the wiring. . . 

Black to the back right ?   That works fine working round the outside of an oval . . . But when you work from the front of an oval on one side then go to an access hatch in the middle of the layout and work on the same principle on the back of the oval things go horribly wrong !
    How do I know ?  Been there done that  :mutley  now I use a wagon with red on one side, black on the other and trundle it round the track as I wire up, simple but it works  :thumbs

Eliminate the simple then we can work on getting photos in here, but dont forget to eat that banana  :cool wink

Cheers

Matt


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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 12:45 pm
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Hi Matt.  Thank you for your analogy? My Planks/Modules, are end to end, no “going around the bend “ , just over Points/ turnouts . And bearing in mind that both are in the form of a tool box , there isn’t an “ access hatch “, And when I turn them over, I can see a red bus and a black bus with all the droppers soldered onto their respective buses. And even the jumpers soldered to their respective buses. Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sun Apr 7th, 2019 01:17 pm
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I'm going out on a limb here . . .

Is it possible that the blacks and the reds have inadvertently been interchanged (swapped), when the two planks were joined together?

That would cause a short circuit.  :roll:



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