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Kevin's Inglenook Junction - Small Layouts,Planks and Micros - Model Railway Layouts. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Sun Apr 28th, 2019 01:25 pm
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BCDR
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PANNIERS? GWR Nutters? Clanking sounds? With Kevin's permission I will return to this later today after a few hymns and prayers and requests for forgiveness.

Nigel



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 Posted: Sun Apr 28th, 2019 01:52 pm
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Or we could look to hire a hitman. :mutley



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 Posted: Sun Apr 28th, 2019 01:55 pm
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Hi Alan.  Thank you for your reply. I don’t have any complaints about my 57xx.   Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sun Apr 28th, 2019 02:22 pm
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LOL i thought that would get a bite :mutley

Still interested to know what the clanking sound is when the power is removed and it idles as its going along deffo sounds like something ready to fall off.

Brian



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 Posted: Sun Apr 28th, 2019 02:42 pm
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At least the smoke smells sweet .................. ;-)

The clanking you refer to Brian is pent up power just waiting to be released - imagine it as a finely tuned living wonder bursting at the seams on the starting line.

Those horrible things that belch out oil and black pollution need separate heaters to keep the crew warm and are just lumps of dumb iron ....................they lack any kind of a soul.  They're also terrible news for the employment figures............. ................



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 Posted: Sun Apr 28th, 2019 07:55 pm
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Panniers. Unlike side tanks, they can easily be removed, easily accommodate different boilers, allow easy access to the motion innards, injectors, toolboxes, lamps, etc., provide some footing for the crew and fitters, and evenly balance the weight across all driving wheels. What is there not to admire? The GWR was onto something with these, as evidenced by the 863 produced over the years. Not called the "Great" for nothing. A tried and tested design.That all came about because of Churchward's prescient decision in championing the use of the Belpaire boiler, with it's superior heat exchange, low coal consumption and efficient smoke box draw when compared to those circular affairs that other companies focused on. To the extent that super-heating was not required.

The motion clatter on coasting? Steam engines are not just about chuff. Valves, injectors, vacuum pump ticking, and big ends knocking (especially on preserved models). Plus the gentle simmer of the boiler when at working pressure. DCC sounds are available from various preserved panniers, whether they are representative of the GWR is another matter. I think the 57xx available on ESU decoders comes from at least 3 preserved models.Given the amount of work they do a bit of knock is tolerable.

Whether wearing green, black or maroon, lined or unlined, clean or dirty, pulling freight or passengers, a sight to be admired by aficionados of the steam persuasion.  Every layout, whether GWR or of a lesser species, needs a brace (or two). No bias here of course.

Nigel




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 Posted: Sun Apr 28th, 2019 08:18 pm
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Thankyou for your description Nigel

The sound decoder i have is a south west digital ESU one on that recording the clanking noise is very prominent as soon as what would be the regulator is shut and the loco is coasting it is related to wheel rotation.
In the week i will see if i can do a little video so you can identify what it is that does the clanking.

Brian



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 Posted: Mon Apr 29th, 2019 01:14 pm
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Brian, that sounds like big end knock from the descripton. One of the recordings was made with a preserved locomotive with noisy ends, as soon as piston rod movement relaxes the ends start knocking. In GWR days that would have meant immediate repairs.

One of the benefits of GWR standardization is that any sound file from a small  GWR locomotive is fine. I always used the Howes generic one.

Nigel



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 Posted: Mon May 6th, 2019 09:16 pm
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Hi Nigel.  I am quite pleased with the sound file? that Paul fitted into my ex GWR 57xx.  Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Tue May 7th, 2019 08:25 pm
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Hi Barry and interested parties. Since you ( Barry) came over to get me out of the proverbial, I have busy Shunting my 08 up and down, thinking about the scenery yet to come. But this morning things were quite different, my 08 Shunter stopped on the board gap/joint. But I had to go out to buy some scenery stuff. Up until now the current was quite happily flowing via the fishplate, usually I prefer to feed every length of track track, no matter how short, after dinner I connected that length of track, now to my surprise, Nothing and all the lights are on meaning no shorts , I cleaned the track, still nothing. Then I put away all the DCC stuff and plugged in the direct current controller and my yet to be upgraded L& Y Pug, of course it whizzed up and down as I expected, it didn’t prove a thing, But, it was fun fun fun.Then I dug out the wheel Cleaner connected the Powercab and tried my luck on the 08. Nothing. Time for a cuppa.
   Best wishes Kevin.  PS any useful suggestions? I thought that it was going too well.



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 Posted: Tue May 7th, 2019 08:38 pm
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Hi Kevin

If the Pug is running OK but the Gronk is not then it suggests that it might be the loco.  Dirty wheels/pick-ups perhaps?  Dirty track can be ruled out by the Pug.  I presume that the 08 is happy on all other parts of the layout?  If not then its worth checking the loco out.

Its certainly a strange one.  It could be DCC related but I know so little about it that I would not like to comment.

If the loco is happy on one plank but not the other then I would suggest that you have an issue with the ol' banana plugs.  I use phono leads and sockets from an audio suppliers (was Maplin, now via t'internet) and they work fine although they do require soldered joints.  My BBC mate suggests that XLR plugs and sockets are better (as a musician I am very inclined to agree but these are harder to get than phonos and they are much more expensive).

Back at the bananas - Kevin it might be worth checking that the plug connections (screw/solder) are still sound.

Barry

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 Posted: Tue May 7th, 2019 09:27 pm
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I think the pug is DC Barry, not DCC but, as you say, it does rule out track and connections etc.  If it works on DC, it should also work on DCC.

Showing a short on DCC but not on DC suggests it's something to do with either the controller or the gronk rather than the plank itself ...........................

When you went off shopping Kevin, did you turn everything off on the layout ?

Check there isn't anything stuck to the gronk wheels - a stray pin, bit of conductive metal or anything else that could cause a short.

Try connecting your DCC controller up to a new bit of track "on the bench" and test the gronk on there - just to make doubly sure it's not "layout" related.

If you connect the controller to the "empty" layout, do you still get the short ?  If not, then it's the loco.

Barry - I hadn't thought about using XLR plugs/sockets for links.  A useful tip as I have quite a few redundant ones kicking around, as indeed do I have phonos too.  And to think, I very nearly threw them out, along with an old mixing desk when we moved - all a symptom of my "hoarding" nature....................



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 Posted: Tue May 7th, 2019 10:11 pm
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Hi Barry. Thank you for your reply. First things first, I do have a small confession to make, I have fitted the CPC the interface, I think that’s what they call it, on the fiddleyard, whether that makes a difference? But it had been suggested that the position of the CPC on the Inglenook would cause me problems? Regarding the board connections I had read about them on YMRC and thought that I would give them a try, otherwise I was going to use Anderson Power Poles as recommended by Nigel, but I purchased the wrong size crimps. I will move the CPC back to the Inglenook tomorrow.   Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Tue May 7th, 2019 10:26 pm
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Hi Petermac. Thank you for your reply.  That is something that I cannot make out. There wasn’t a short circuit this time, because that would reveal itself on the Powercab handset, when a short occurs the handset flashes, but not this time. When I leave my Locos, I put them back in their boxes, even the Pugs. I have spare leads from various items of equipment, just in case they come in handy? But I think that the problem is on the DCC side, somehow, because when I connected the direct current to the bus wires the Pug proved the connections, rather strange? Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Tue May 7th, 2019 10:26 pm
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Kevin, what you call the CPC is the PCP and it doesn't really matter on which board you instal it, just follow the Powercab instructions.
But OK - connect both boards together, leave the PCP disconnected from the tracks and using the multimeter in Ohms mode( resistance) you can confirm that all tracks are wired & no short circuits.

Unless you have modified CV29 on the gronk to prevent it running on DC, you should be bale to see if the gronk runs on the spare bit of track as PeterMac suggests with just DC.



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 Posted: Tue May 7th, 2019 10:41 pm
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Hi Ron.  Thank you for your reply.  I am always getting initials wrong. I thought that about the position of the PCP. A bit like e the company that is supposed to protect my cards? I also tried my ex GWR 57xx Pannier Tank and that wasn’t working either.  Now we are talking technology with CV’s. The only reason that I was concerned about changing to the fiddleyard was the connections are back to front, insofar as the power would be from the plug instead as from the socket . I know that it is a low voltage, but it is head downwards???  Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Wed May 8th, 2019 02:18 am
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Hi Kevin,

It all sounds very interesting. From your last paragraph I assume you mean that power to the fiddle yard is through the PCP, power to the scenic part is then through the connectors between the two boards. As long as you have continuity that should not make a scrap of difference.

Now comes the fun part. If you put the 08 on the program track and go into programming mode, does the system recognize the decoder? If not I think you need to open the bag of chips and pop them in the oven.. Because the decoder sounds like it's fried.

If the 08 doesn't run on DC and Cv29 is set to DCC/DC it's a dead parrot. Did it run on DC before? If so it might be the motor or the decoder. Only way to find out is to take it apart and put a DCC blanking plug in. If it runs on DC you have definitely fried the decoder. If not it's the motor and/or wiring. Test the decoder in another locomotive or with a DCC test board.

Now if you left the system on while shopping and it was shorting merrily away you should probably make sure the NCE Power Cab still actually works. I see no mention that you tested it with another chipped locomotive. 

Suggested plan of action: Verify Power Cab works. If yes verify that the decoder is still readable. If yes check Cv29. and set to dual mode DCC/DC if it is set on DCC only. Check it runs on DC using a blanking plug. If yes then it's head scratching time. Any no's and "Houston, we have a problem". Oh, and visually inspect the decoder. Is anything melted?

Nigel





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 Posted: Wed May 8th, 2019 07:24 am
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Passed Driver wrote: Hi Barry. Thank you for your reply. First things first, I do have a small confession to make, I have fitted the CPC the interface, I think that’s what they call it, on the fiddleyard, whether that makes a difference?

There's an old saying, If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Your suggestion of moving it back is a good idea Kevin.


Ed



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 Posted: Wed May 8th, 2019 07:51 am
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Hi Nigel.  Thank you for your reply. I didn’t install the Decoder, that was down to Paul. I always put my Locos away after a running session, and the 08 was running on the fiddleyard okay in the morning, except, when it stopped whilst crossing the board gap. I did attempt to run another sound fitted Loco, the ex GWR 57xx Pannier, and when that remained motionless, that is when I hooked up the direct current controller with the Pug on the track.AFAIK know the Powercab is okay, without getting it tested, as it lights up as per normal, and it is possible to select a Loco and or recall a Loco. As with putting away, into their respective boxes, I always unplug the Powercab and put that in a safe place.  Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Wed May 8th, 2019 08:03 am
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Ed wrote: Passed Driver wrote: Hi Barry. Thank you for your reply. First things first, I do have a small confession to make, I have fitted the CPC the interface, I think that’s what they call it, on the fiddleyard, whether that makes a difference?

There's an old saying, If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Your suggestion of moving it back is a good idea Kevin.


Ed

Hi Ed,  Thank you. Do you mean moving the PCP back to the Inglenook, even though I had suggested that, as it is the socket that is supposed to be alive, and passing the current to the plug, odd? I will do that.Best wishes Kevin 



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