Video Archive         Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Other Areas. > Trams. > Card Trams To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2   
Start New Topic Reply Printer Friendly

Card Trams - Trams. - Other Areas. - Your Model Railway Club
AuthorPost
 Posted: Wed Mar 13th, 2019 03:35 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 21st post
Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16621
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I have to ask David - if these latest prints need backing with stiffer card, what's the point of the plotter/cutter ?

Why not just print normally onto suitable card in the first place ?



____________________
'Petermac
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Mar 13th, 2019 03:41 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 22nd post
wahiba
Full Member


Joined: Mon Jan 14th, 2013
Location: Keighley, United Kingdom
Posts: 247
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

The plotter/cutter is far better, and quicker at getting around the awkward corners. I would normally use thicker card but this was a pack for photo printing on. Actually a matt finish and pictures looked washed out. Graphic printing though looks fine.

When cuting out apertures for windows and the like the benefits really become apparent.



____________________
freelance model railways and tramways
http://www.picsntech.co.uk/index_modrail.html
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Mar 13th, 2019 03:53 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 23rd post
Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16621
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

wahiba wrote: The plotter/cutter is far better, and quicker at getting around the awkward corners. I would normally use thicker card but this was a pack for photo printing on. Actually a matt finish and pictures looked washed out. Graphic printing though looks fine.

When cuting out apertures for windows and the like the benefits really become apparent.

Yes, I understand that David but you said "they will need backing with stiffer stuff".  Don't you have to cut the "stiffer stuff" to fit around your plotter prints ?  If so, then there doesn't seem much point in having the accuracy of the plotter/cutter as the backing will presumably be cut by hand ............................. :roll:



____________________
'Petermac
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Mar 14th, 2019 05:32 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 24th post
wahiba
Full Member


Joined: Mon Jan 14th, 2013
Location: Keighley, United Kingdom
Posts: 247
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Plotter cutters like the Cameo are derived from CAD pen plotters that were superceded by ink jet printers. As they were originally designed to work with pens rather than knives the downward pressure, hence the cutting depth is a bit limited. Laser cutter heads cut thicker material but cost a lot more. Practically though the mechanism are the same.

The best way to consider card is a metal plate that can only be formed in one direction. Other than basic stippling a dome cannot be formed out of paper, such a shape has to be built up orange peel fashion. This really is the major limitation for card modelling. It makes modern smooth vehicles difficult to model, and the steam domes on steam locos. Coaches though with their flat, or gently curved in one direction only sides make good card subjects.

Like sheet metal stiffening can be by the use of webs, which means the stiffeners behind card do not have to come to the edge.

When it comes to windows the easy option is go old fashioned printed tin plate and have printed windows. It was with the idea of printing tin plate on an ink jet printer that I re-discovered card modelling (previously it had been models off the back of Weetabix packets - remember them?) and a dalliance with some micromodels I acquired from somewhere. I do have the patience to go down that route.

Practically I have found I can stiffen card with window apertures with the acetate sheets for the windows. This plus the ribs seems to do the job quite well. As often with trams all that can be seen behind the window is the drive chassis a layer of black, or silvered card behind the acetate is another option I have tried. By now it is 3 ply and stiffness is no longer a problem.

So long as one has chassis bodies for a three car unit can be knocked up quite quickly. For a model with a centre powered car and trailers at either end this works well. A number of units littled modeld were three car units. Liverpool Overhead Railway and the LMS Railcar Units, both of which I have as work in progress. The Docklands Light Railway has teo car units, often doubled to 4 cars. They are pretty good for card modelling being quite angular in form.

Generally Urban/Light Rail are put together. In fact the latest Tram/trains are really a bit of both.

The following are some of my earlier efforts in card.

This one has acetate windows. It also uses coloured card with seam lines from the plotter.



An early effort at an urban rail/tram. Bogies and chassis are all from Underground Ernie stock. This is made from printed white card, I think it was hand cut pre-cameo days.


My only effort at a steam engine. I did not have the Cameo then and it was cut out by hand. I cannot find the drawing so might resurrect it some time. Note dome problem.


A Hong Kong Tram on 12mm track in HO.  Black reinforcement is used for the windows to hide the toy mechanism. cut windows mean the Cameo was used. This coloured card with plotted seam lines.





____________________
freelance model railways and tramways
http://www.picsntech.co.uk/index_modrail.html
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Mar 25th, 2019 11:30 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 25th post
The Bankie
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: Bradford, United Kingdom
Posts: 395
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Tram Fan and Wahiba.

Tram Fan first.
Superb job and from what you have told me previously about your situation a triumph of persistence over adversity. Keep up the good work.

Wahiba
Actually you can get a satisfactory dome out of card BUT it may well take several attempts and quite a long time.

First off you can dampen and GENTLY squeeze out the shape then trim to size. However if you use standard dye ink it will run when you wet it so be sure to make your dome plain and be prepared to paint it on completion. Varnishing before molding will not work as the varnish will hold the card to its original shape or crack and flake off.
Pigment ink is a glue based ink which will not run but you need to use a different cartridge specifically for it. I use an Epson where the print head is in the machine and not part of the cartridge so I would need another printer.

Second cut out decreasing circles or horseshoe sections then glue them together with a slight overlap until you get to the top. Give the piece several coats of varnish until it has the consistency of wood then sand smooth. Once more you will need to paint the completed piece.

Thirdly use model aircraft/boat techniques to build a framework and cover with doped tissue.

ME? I use a block of Balsa and carve the outside of the dome and sand out the inside with a rotary file which also works on the built up card dome.

Regards
Jim



____________________
Because, except in some unfortunate circumstances, trains did not run on town centre streets
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Mar 25th, 2019 01:49 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 26th post
The Bankie
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: Bradford, United Kingdom
Posts: 395
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi again Tram Fan and Hi Chubber

Seaton is a 2 foot gauge tramway but you only realise this when you see the seating arrangements. IF the DVLA pull their finger out I'll be doing a 1/2 day driving course some time next week but since they need to see a valid drivers license (the track crosses a main road) and due to my 70th birthday I have had to jump through hoops to get a licence to drive the minibus for the local community centre and it may not be back in time.
Wish me Luck

Regards
Jim



____________________
Because, except in some unfortunate circumstances, trains did not run on town centre streets
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Mar 26th, 2019 05:27 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 27th post
TramFan
Full Member


Joined: Fri Mar 17th, 2017
Location: Hoekwil ,Wilderness, South Africa
Posts: 21
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Jim, I hope you get to the course, it must be so awesome to be able to drive a tram, good luck.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Mar 26th, 2019 08:06 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 28th post
Petermac
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 13th, 2007
Location: Nr Bergerac, France
Posts: 16621
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Yes indeed - I too hope you manage to make it on time Jim - don't forget to turn on your Go-Pro when you drive - then post the results on here ...............!!!



____________________
'Petermac
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Mar 26th, 2019 12:25 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 29th post
The Bankie
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: Bradford, United Kingdom
Posts: 395
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Tram Fan
You said, it must be so awesome to be able to drive a tram
It Is! I did it a couple of times before, Once in 1968 and again in 1969.
First time was on this, a simple up and back alongside the Thornbury trolleybus shed (below) with the trolley on the trolleybus positive wire and a skate in the rail. Cost me 2'/6''.




The blue highlight was the section of track used.

1969 was here,
 


it looks spectacular but it was the only place I could do it without being seen and the driver I had bribed losing his job.

Ended up in Your neck of the Veld as we stopped at Cape town and we disembarked the Wasp to Ysterplaat for a week or two.

Regards
Jim








____________________
Because, except in some unfortunate circumstances, trains did not run on town centre streets
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Mar 26th, 2019 03:22 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 30th post
wahiba
Full Member


Joined: Mon Jan 14th, 2013
Location: Keighley, United Kingdom
Posts: 247
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks for the bit on how to make a dome. Basically it is the papier Mache principal, I must admit to not having thought of that for card models.

My 'local' tramway system was Keighley. Like Bradford it was 4 footer (which means 16.5mm track is nearer scale that it is standard gauge. Fortunately at Harrogate book fair I acquired a copy of Keighley Corporation Transport by J S King. There is also a modern Middleton book on the system, most of which is obviously based on this particular book. Sadly the system did not survive past 1924. The old shed is still there on South Street, interesting design as it is at an angle to the road of around 60 - 70 degrees rather than at right angles.

Historically it is the 'trackless trams' ie trolley buses in Keighley that are most interesting. Some used the Stoller system where literally a four wheeled trolley ran along the two overhead wires. There was only one set of wires so passing was an interesting exercise.

Practically it was a small system and I supposed in something like N gauge could be modelled n nearly its entireity. I just like the idea that 4' is a more precise use of 16.5mm track at OO scale of 1/76. In reality 16.5mm for 4' gauge is a smidge under 1/74.or 4 1/8 mm to 1 foot, exactly.



____________________
freelance model railways and tramways
http://www.picsntech.co.uk/index_modrail.html
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Mar 26th, 2019 03:42 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 31st post
TramFan
Full Member


Joined: Fri Mar 17th, 2017
Location: Hoekwil ,Wilderness, South Africa
Posts: 21
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Jim, nice to know that you visited Cape Town and Ysterplaat, hope you enjoyed it.Owen

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Mar 26th, 2019 07:39 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 32nd post
The Bankie
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: Bradford, United Kingdom
Posts: 395
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Wahiba

I don’t know who built the Keighley trams, Whether they were “buy ins” or purpose built so it’s difficult to know what to say. KW have a range of trams in white metal including 4 Bradford variants but nothing on Keighley. If these were Dick Kerr or Preston there are several on offer which you could paint up.Bradford had very distinctive platforms & vestibules so not good as a Keighley tram and I don't believe they ever joined up (about 4 feet short at the Bingley end) so no through running.

However as you are a “card” modeller have a look at The TRLS  site Here or PM me as there is a Bradford tram and there are three trackless as well By Peter Watson and I have no doubt you can scale these to N.


Your kind of models, black windows.

As far as motors go try Nigel Lawton Here and check the site. I have some of his kit shown in one of my posts but I've no idea which one. Your big snag in N is you need 4.5mm wheels. If you know of anyone who can supply these  please tell me.

Regards

Jim



____________________
Because, except in some unfortunate circumstances, trains did not run on town centre streets
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Mar 26th, 2019 09:07 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 33rd post
wahiba
Full Member


Joined: Mon Jan 14th, 2013
Location: Keighley, United Kingdom
Posts: 247
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Keigley Trams were all Brush with BTH electrics as far as I can make out. Basic four wheelers, open on top at fist although I think some had enclosed tops latr on. The electric tramay only ran rom 1904 to 1924 so there were no major changes in that time.



____________________
freelance model railways and tramways
http://www.picsntech.co.uk/index_modrail.html
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Apr 19th, 2019 05:06 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 34th post
wahiba
Full Member


Joined: Mon Jan 14th, 2013
Location: Keighley, United Kingdom
Posts: 247
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

My urban rail trains with card bodies.URBAN CARD TRAINS

I have posted this in the scratch build forum where there is thread on card bodies. However it is a summary of how I go about making three three car rail sets. Circumstances mean they have not be properly run yet, something I am working on.

These represent quantity over quality. But as I was a Production Engineer I tend to think in output quantities rahter than detail one offs. Card is cheaper and quicker than other options. (casting and 3D printing). While I use a Cameo for cutting out where windows and door apertures are used if you stick to printed windows then hand cutting is not to time consuming.



____________________
freelance model railways and tramways
http://www.picsntech.co.uk/index_modrail.html
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Jun 25th, 2019 07:45 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 35th post
wahiba
Full Member


Joined: Mon Jan 14th, 2013
Location: Keighley, United Kingdom
Posts: 247
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

After having lain idle in the garage i thought it was about time I sorted my 4 x 2 tram test layout out. Concentric ovals with tight curves, inner is 200mm radius and it is interesting what can and cannot cope with it.

I have tided it up and added extra wires to provide the supply. The two ovals are seperate and could be controlled seperately. At the moment I just have them in paralle and have two vehicles running off the one power unit.

My bodies are all freelance card and the chassis from old models. Two are from Underground Ernie. The latest is an old Co-Co diesel with the two bogies out. The power bogies only powers the outer axles the inner just being wheels on stub axles. the trailing unit just needed the centre axle removing. I have some ideas for an articulated tram.

UE Bo Bo chassis have the bogies pivoting over the worm and wheel drive and I was surprised when they coped with the tight radii. to ensure they work a decent weight is needed. I was not sure if the long wheel base off the diesel would work, but it has.

The only failure was a bogies from an early Triang shunter. 4 wheel dock shunter. Wheels are so big they had problems with the peco 100 track. Anyhow even after re-building the motor did not run to well.

I hope to add overhead wires and fill in the base so that it looks like proper tram track. Calling it the factory test track justfies its size, and my assortment of freelance trams.

Photos below have been uploaded to the gallery.

This is the basic board. Stock of new track behind is for my dog bone tram layout project.



Underground Ernie Bo Bo chassis



Underground Ernei Trolley chassis. the side plates can be rmoved.



Chassis of bogies from a Co Co Diesel Loco. Power bogie and trailing bogie pick up from opposite tracks.



A pair of trams with temporary card bodies. Green bodie is plotted and cut from green card. Right hand is all printed including windows.



There is also a brief video on YouTube :  Tram Factory Model layout



____________________
freelance model railways and tramways
http://www.picsntech.co.uk/index_modrail.html
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Jun 26th, 2019 02:23 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 36th post
The Bankie
Full Member


Joined: Tue Jan 29th, 2013
Location: Bradford, United Kingdom
Posts: 395
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi David
Glad to see someone has had the chance to get a bit of modelling in. What with one thing and another (SWMBO had a TIA, I had a glaucoma {do not try this at home it hurts like hull} in October and have just had my left eyeball re-bored today at BRI, DVLA are being awkward about giving me a license to drive the community centre minibus and the statins I'm on are giving me pains and cramps in the long muscles and the local quack is trying to sort that out.) but it's not all gloom and doom as I got my tram drivers certificate in March and will get the pics on the board as soon as SWMBO remembers which stick they are on and my left eye will be fully functional in about a week.
Keep up the good work.
Regards
Jim



____________________
Because, except in some unfortunate circumstances, trains did not run on town centre streets
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

This is topic ID = 15948     Current time is 01:56 pm Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2     
You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Other Areas. > Trams. > Card Trams
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin.

Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text,
click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.
Start New Topic


Back to top of page

           
15 Most Recent Topics

Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster.

All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted.
Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission.
The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.    © 2008

                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.