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Gwiwer
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It has taken a while, over a year in fact, since moving back to the UK before I have been able to start work on a new project.  The down-sizing exercise has been significant.  From a 34-metre outdoor layout to a single room which has to function as bedroom, office, workroom and now layout space as well.  

Waddlemarsh will represent a fictional small freight transfer yard with a backwater SR electric passenger service located somewhere in the SW of London / Middlesex and drawing some inspiration from the likes of Feltham, Morden milk depot and others.  There will be a nod to Waddon Marsh though there is no intention to represent this location.  The time period will largely be mid-1960s with a little flexibility either way.  

That will permit the operation of SR steam and early BR blue side by side though green will be the dominant colour scheme.  Freights will arrive from and depart to all other areas changing traction in the yard and bringing in classes familiar to the ER and LMR plus, of course, my large fleet of WR types. There will also be appearances from types more closely associated with Scotland as the class 26 locomotives were originally delivered to the ER before migrating (or being banished) north of the border.  Class 17 locos never ran in London but under Rule 1 they will appear at Waddlemarsh on days when other personal favourites are also in operation.  Electric passenger services will be in the hands of 2Bil units with the occasional appearance of 2Hal and 4Cep types.  There will also be guest appearances from the Brighton Belle in 1967 guise alongside the as-new 4TC in early BR blue which also appeared late in 1967.

The layout is under construction after a very tricky exercise in logistics.  The fiddle yard is the upper surface of the library book shelf upon which it has been possible to fit nine sidings.  The two baseboards which were built, powered and tested with another project in mind around 12 years ago in Australia form the main scenic areas.  These were track-laid to fi end-to-end but are now at right-angles to each other around the room with a new board between to accommodate the corner.  This will result in some slight alteration to the originally-laid tracks but not much.  Everything has been squeezed in and fits by a millimetre here, two there and with nothing spare.  The cat won't let me swing him but he assures me there is no room to do so in any case.

Operation will be straight DC on a layout which is intended to only be a rather temporary thing set up in a rented room and which cannot be fixed in any way to walls or floor.  It relies for its integrity upon the tight fit around the L-shape and some basic bracing and support.  Track as laid is code 75 electrofrog which, because much of it is already wired and proven, will be retained.  The fiddle yard, and a hidden storage behind the goods yard for two electric trains, will however be in code 100 because I hold stock of both plain track and points so further expenditure is not necessary.  All that has been required was the very modest purchase of some SL-113 transition track pieces which will be / are fitted where the code 75 viewing area runs off-scene to code 100 storage.  Frog witching is by Peco standard accessory switches mounted beneath the usual clip-in motors.

In order to accommodate a 4-car train in what will be an SR-style halt the passenger station will be on one board and the goods area on the other with a 90-degree curve between them.  I intend to minimise the effect of this through careful use of scenery and by hiding the passenger line through the curve and taking it to the two-road reversing sidings mentioned above behind the main scenics.  

Control will be from a front-mounted controller, the Morley Vortrak reclaimed from Penhayle Bay, and an array of point and signal levers.  Those who saw my previous layout will find that set-up familiar.  A small number of functional Dapol signals will be included.

Now to arrange for some pictures.

Gwiwer
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The pencil-sketch track plan I am working to.  It has been possible to fit nine sidings in the main fiddle yard of which four will feed the passenger line and five the freight.  The twin-track hidden storage for electric trains behind the freight area is clearly marked.  As track laying progresses I am making on-the-fly changes to minimise the effect of the right-angle bends around the room although one track, on the tightest curve, will be restricted to short wheelbase shunting locomotives only.




And a trio of views showing the general placement of tracks in the main fiddle yard (occupied by a Maunsell twin-set and three Brighton Belle trailers), the future site of Waddlemarsh Halt occupied by the 4TC unit and with some representative freight movements apparently taking place.










What appears to be an angle-poise lamp is exactly that.  It illuminates my desk and work area and will illuminate the fiddle yard when the scenic break eventually goes in.

Gwiwer
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A short video showing the general arrangement of things around the room including how the layout, desk and bed are all interlaced.  There really is very little space indeed and I am asking a lot to get this much layout into so small an area.  



SRman
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It's taking shape, Rick. Once you can run that first train, the inspiration should flow even more.

:doublethumb

TeaselBay
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Hey great to see you've started on a new project Rick.  I only saw the trailing end of Penhayle, so will be great to see your progress on your new layout. You have a real knack for capturing the "real" aspect and bringing it alive.
Penhayle was easily my favourite layout on here is a massive inspiration to Teasel bay (I hope that is ok?). I look forwards to watching Waddlemarsh grow.

Chris

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Yes, good to see you back into it Rick.

Gwiwer
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And good to finally be using those points you helped wire up all those years ago Sol. And also the ones I bought from Max are finally being put to use. 
If anything I do inspires others then that is indeed very satisfying.  There is certainly no copyright on that so go forth and model! 

Gwiwer
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There has been progress.  Not all of it forwards.  I have started wiring the new points and crossover which required the purchase of a new soldering iron.  It worked perfectly for 30 minutes and then died.  I have not been able to return to the shop and exchange it until today but exchange it they did without question.  More wiring can now take place over the Bank Holiday weekend.
 
The track plan has been modified slightly from the original sketch and no doubt will continue to be modified as I fit things in.  The two-road shed area on the goods yard board will now be a single road serving the merchant's store as had been intended when I first designed and built this board for another project years ago.  It will instead gain a kick-back siding to a small servicing shed.
 
The goods line has been pinned into its final position and has the N-class standing on it in the photo below.  The goods headshunt remains in its final position, as built previously, but now singled. This has the Warwell leading the freight parked on it in the picture.
 

 
Another view looking into the office / workstation area with the fiddle yard on the shelf behind the computer and the bed base above.  This will not be the layout operating area however - that will be installed on the edge of the baseboard in front of Waddlemarsh Halt.
 

 
And another video clip which shows that some progress is indeed being made even if it looks like spaghetti everywhere.  It's at that stage of things!  This is also a full 360-degree view around the room and gives perhaps a better idea of how everything is squeezed in both on the layout and in the room in what has been generously described as "Masterful use of space".



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What to do on a wet Bank Holiday weekend?  Fix the two hidden sidings which will form the run-off for the electric passenger trains.  These two sidings will be concealed behind the backscene of the freight facility and will give the impression of a through route without the need to run the same train out and back every time. 

The required length was for a five-car unit or loco-plus-four which as can be seen has been achieved.  The closely spaced tracks and the very tight clearance behind the upright posts are of no consequence as these are hidden sidings.  

Four views which show the overall track plan taking shape on this board and which is surprisingly close to being completed, the twin run-off tracks for electric trains which are occupied here by the three trailer cars of the Brighton Belle (the motor coaches are due for release any day now) and a 4TC unit with a class 33/1 loco tucked away at the far end.  Apart from the length of the board it is these two 5-vehicle trains which require the given length of siding though for the most part 2-car or 4-car trains will be the rule on passenger workings.

The proximity to the window is apparent and trains moving along the outer siding will brush the net curtain but in tests have not snagged it.  The back scene will be a pre-printed photographic panel mounted on MDF and simply slotted into position.  Of the three posts only the two outer ones are fixed while the third will be glued to the MDF and allow the back scene to be lifted in or out as required and located between the outer posts.  As this layout is being built almost entirely from materials already to hand the posts are simply random offcuts from the baseboard legs and their differing heights will not matter in this situation.

The slim pole, visible where the net has been drawn back in order to show it, which alters the angle of dangle for the venetian blind must be accessible limiting the height of the backscene but not severely so.  I will also need access to those hidden sidings should anything go awry.








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Rick I presume this is 00 gauge as you had before?   (Being an N gauger myself I can't help thinking this might have been more suitable for you in this much smaller space).Anyway, whatever scale it is it looks great!
Ken.

Gwiwer
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Yes this is OO.  I considered N gauge but the boards were already built and part-wired from years ago, I have most of the rolling stock required already and I have a stock of track and parts for OO.  So the new layout will be built at fairly minimal cost as opposed to going for the smaller gauge which would have required significant outlay and the scrapping of some work already done by myself and a couple of others.


I'm not an oldie by any means but I do notice a slight deterioration in eyesight and a definite lack of hand-eye co-ordination practice with some of the tasks so sticking to a larger scale helps there too.

Gwiwer
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I should probably add also that since this is my first venture into the land of electrofrog points, though still driving DC, that some of the track will not be pinned down until it has been electrically tested and I am happy with the operation.  That should avoid any need to undo work later if I find things are wired / insulated incorrectly.

Gwiwer
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That first moment at which the tracks are connected end to end. Only this inner curve for now and nothing is yet firmly fixed until the electrics can be tested. 

This will be the shunting line and theoretically open only to short wheelbase locos. However with a radius of slightly more guesstimetres than I had anticipated it seems even a Merchant Navy can cope. 



Although the bogie swing on the Bulleid diesel is a bit unrealistic this too happily runs through the curve.  It’s green and never wore that livery while based on the Southern but it will appear at times on freights to or from the LMR. As such it has its headsignal discs set for the route via Kew Junctions and Acton (one end) and via the West London Line and Willesden (other end). 


Gwiwer
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An afternoon session today saw track laying completed on this board, which is the freight handling area, though not the wiring which is still some way off.  
I have allowed for realistic shunt and shed moves with DC operation by installing insulating joiners and will have switchable current as required.  The kick-back siding which will lead to a shed has three separate electrical sections and the far right siding next to the upright posts has a section at its dead end which can be isolated to retain a loco in place and allow a train to be drawn out by another at the leading end.

The main arrivals road has a loco-release facility and that in turn has a short headshunt to accommodate a tank engine or diesel shunter as required. The other long road, second from the left, is intended to be a departure road with stock placed by the duty shunter then the train collected by its loco; this therefore does not require a dead section at the far end.




TeaselBay
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Coming on great Rick,
I think all the thought into dead areas for shunting is brilliant. Going to give you lots of little switches to control!

Might not comment on all your posts but definitely reading them!

Chris


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Nice to see some progress Rick.
Following along.

ATB

Gwiwer
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It’s alive!!! With a temporary power supply rigged up the first train has moved under its own power at Waddlemarsh.

The controller is the Morley Vortrak salvaged from Penhayle Bay and which has spent 15 years outdoors (and suffered a little for that) though three of its four independant outputs still work.

I have also been able to check that everything purchased since Penhayle Bay closed actually works. It does. And I am particularly impressed with the little Heljan class 07 dock shunters of which two are now in my collection.

https://gwiwer.smugmug.com/ModelRailway-1/Model-railway-videos/n-S4bmc/i-5FLC4Gq

Sol
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A rolling start is a very important event then Rick - well done so far.

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The most important part of any layout is to get something moving.
Doesn't matter what & how long the track is.
Just to get something moving is an achievement & gives confidence going forward :Happy

SRman
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amdaley wrote: The most important part of any layout is to get something moving.
Doesn't matter what & how long the track is.
Just to get something moving is an achievement & gives confidence going forward :Happy


Yeah, wot 'e sed!

Good progress, Rick, and I agree that once you get something moving, the inspiration should keep flowing.

:doublethumb

Gwiwer
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More sections of track have been powered up and used. Some of the track is still not pinned down as I need to fully wire up and complete a full electrical test before going past the point of no return. It would be frustrating, to say the least, if I had everything nicely fixed and then discovered a short or a dead spot.

A little more rolling stock has also arrived. I always promised myself when Hornby first released their Brighton Belle units that if they ever did one in 1960s livery (Pullman but with a small yellow panel) I would have one. They have, and I now own a 5-car unit which has run up an down no more than its own length so far but looks the business and so far as I can tell is correct in all the important details.

No photos yet but hopefully through the weekend when I also intend to have at least the first section of backscene fitted up.

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3way points and crossovers 🤪 your brave I hate wiring them but once done right they are awesome. Great progress mate

Gwiwer
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A track-laying session this afternoon has resulted in progress. All five curves are now in place and are as good as it’s going to get in a tight space. 

Getting five lines around a right-angle took a little ingenuity in terms of spacing and what connected to where but the effect is, I think, adequate. 

The two outer tracks will ultimately be concealed behind the backscene.  The 4TC occupies the Up and the 5Bel the Down passenger lines which to the right will serve Waddlemarsh Halt and to the left continue to reach the pair of concealed sidings. Rather than occupy space with a crossover here the line singles briefly making use of double-curve points. 

Metropolitan electric loco no.12  “Sarah Siddons” and the GWR Siphon G vans are on the connection between passenger line and goods yard. This is only connected to the Down passenger line but Up trains will be able to leave and cross over at the London end of the halt. 

Eastern Region diesels of classes 16 and 20 are on the freight line. This will pass in front of the halt on its own alignment meaning freight has the option to use this or the passenger lines. 

Finally the duty shunting engine fusses with wagons on the inner curve which leads to the shunting neck (right) and the goods shed and siding (left).

The controller is placed where I intend it to go but it may be possible to fit it below rather than on the baseboard. 





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Looks to be a nice, compact, operationally interesting layout.

Nice one. :)

Gwiwer
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It certainly has to be compact!  It is interwoven with the furniture in what is bedroom, office, library and workroom.  It took most of a year before I had figured out exactly how it was even going to fit in.  Factor in the minor detail of it being a rental property meaning I cannot fix anything to the walls or change the floor covering (which is loop-pile carpet) and it also has to be self-supporting and level enough to allow smooth operation.

Gwiwer
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Well chaps it has been a while.  Progress has been one step forward and the other step back.  It might be time to seek a new hobby.
Issues I am currently trying to resolve are:-
Not all the rolling stock is happy with the curve radii;
Not all the rolling stock, none of which has pizza-cutters fitted, is happy traversing perfectly brand new points;
Apparently random areas of the layout will run when power is applied but large areas do not;
Fixing one short introduces another;
The points are of various batches and seem to require wiring differently but I am not sure why or how;
Until I can get the full layout correctly powered I cannot move on to ballasting and scenic work.

Here's the track plan.  It might have been easier had I drawn this using two lines, one for each rail, but I didn't.  To my mind using DC and electrofrog points I need to supply power to the toe-end of each point.  As the points have frog-switching and bonded blades the frog wires are clipped to avoid shorts.

Yet shorts there are a-plenty and no-power areas.  And for the life of me I cannot work out why a point which has the frog wires removed and is bonded and switched as per Peco's wiring diagram is still shorting ....

If I had hair it would have been torn out.  I have just spent yet another afternoon achieving negative progress and am about ready to say a very rude word indeed.


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Hi Rick

I have been following on RMWeb and I hoped your shorting problems had been solved by clipping the connecting wires to the frog.........is this not the case?

It would help if you could add to the track diagram a symbol to show all the insulated rail joiners like this              II

Then add arrows or triangles on each side of the track showing each power feed. Fill in the triangles for positive and leave triangles for common empty.

If it is possible to isolate say Track A it will be easiest to start with a diagram of that and get that running

Slow steady testing and by a process of elimination we will get it sorted.

I imagine Max and Ron will be along shortly

Best wishes

John


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Hello John,
Sadly the shorting problems, which Ian Morton is also weighing in on for me, are not entirely related to the frog wires.  I found a couple of points with unclipped wires and removed them which resulted in some routes then having power which did not before.  But having restored those points I now find I have shorts in other places!  

As and when I get  a chance I can hopefully present a better track plan.  There are some IRJs already in use and I may need more - or indeed less - and all points have current fed at the toe.

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Sorry to hear your having shorting problems Rick.

No easy answer when you get that condition, if the track is not pinned properly is it not possible to isolate sections of track to tie down which area at least is causing the problem.
Insulated rail joiners can help greatly in electrically dividing up the layout into sections which may help you.

Brian

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Rick

I have sent you a pm

Cheers

John

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Hi Rick,


Looks interesting. One observation I can offer is that a brand new 3-way electrofrog in code 100 needed the frogs and blades "adjusting". Close inspection at x10 showed why. The frogs were not in line with the closure rails, pizza cutters under gauge bounced through fine as the guard rail did it's job and the tread missed the end of the frog, RP-25 wheels to gauge not so. The point blades were also a tad too long and not sitting against the rail. It is worthwhile going over them with a magnifying glass. Peco  live frogs by their design have to be spot on, these were not.The long side if the frogs was too long, that ensured they were not in line.

If stock is derailing on those curves check the BTB and whether the bogies and wheels are limited in their swing. Many are. Some judicious filing is often called for.

I avoid DC, but going over the track with a multimeter and checking that gaps are actually insulated (resistance mode) and that there is  continuity  (idem) where it should be is often illuminating. 
 

Nigel


Gwiwer
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Gents

Thanks for your comments and messages.  All of which will be taken on board and some fresh thinking will be applied next time I have an hour or two for the layout.

Gwiwer
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Gents (and all others present).

It has been a very long time since I visited. In that time the layout has largely sat gathering dust and sometimes having the dust removed. The electrical issues which defy my understanding simply refuse to go away no matter what I do.

There are other things now in play. We both had a troublesome winter health-wise and at one time were both laid up together which wasn't fun. Thank goodness for supermarkets who deliver and online ordering of almost anything.

I recovered slowly through Spring and am more or less back on my feet now. The Good Lady has developed some mental health issues which have set her back many times as she tries to progress her career, studies and personal life. She also has some ongoing medical problems which are driving her anxiety and not helping her random panic attacks. It is a combination of all those things which have led to her asking that I not be away from her side except during working hours in case of need. That is a whole new ball-game for which we don't know the rules. She is receiving professional support and has a list of appointments with various people coming up. Things seem to be improving very slowly day by day but can be set back without any warning for no apparent reason.

The layout has been he last thing on my mind and has received very little in the way of attention until now.

This week is the first of two comprising my Summer leave (!!) and with her requirements in mind my planned travels have largely been cancelled. Instead I have addressed the matter of why the layout shorts every time I power up no matter what I do. I simply don't understand how it can short, for example, with a power feed to a dead end and nothing else on the line. But undercoating of the baseboards has commenced and there remains a will to fix up the why and wherefore of the electrics. I should be simple enough. My problem is that I don't know why it isn't working.

On the positive side I have been able to attend the opening of Kernow MRC's new Guildford branch and came away with a decent haul of goodies. I also have five days-worth of weathering demonstrations booked in the next two months and have therefore invested in mew rolling stock (which I really don't need) in order to have sufficient to demonstrate with. Some may later be sold on.

I could put up a picture here but there's really nothing more to see. When there is I'll be busy with the camera as I once was before.

See you about. Keep smiling.

Barry Miltenburg
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Hi Rick

Glad to see that you are back modelling.  I too went to Kernow and was mightily impressed - my bank manager less so!!

I'm no expert (despite comments elsewhere) but I too run DC so happy to offer any advice on the shorts when you get back to them.  I notice Peco point motors so my first check might be that the frog switching is correct (are you using the motor-mounted switches?).  Also, I have had issues where I cut the blade-frog rail connections only to find that they were still making a connection!!

Kind regards

Barry

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It seems you're having a rough time of things Rick - I hope things soon improve for you.  Mental health problems are something most of us can't even begin to understand but I can imagine that, being so far from "home", will not be helping Sharon.  At least she's getting some professional help.

Regarding your weathering demonstrations, have you thought of doing "commissions" at them.  Constantly buying stock just to do the demos will quickly drain your coffers and selling on, whilst recouping some of your outlay, might still involve a "loss" on the original purchase..  You could try, on here for example, to offer a service whereby, for the price of the stock, plus a very small additional fee, you'd weather for other people.  I'm thinking maybe, "they" could fund the stock pre-demo, you weather it at a demo and post it on afterwards.  Yes, "they'd" have to wait a few days or so for delivery, but it would be weathered at minimal cost and you'd have a guaranteed no-loss sale plus your supply of stock to use .............................  Just a thought. :hmm

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Hello,
As a fellow metal health sufferer i feel for your wife. The panic attacks of which i have had many over the last 40 years, were then and still now a frightening experience. You would not think that your own body would turn on you in this way and inflict such pain. I wish her well and hope the journey to health will be a short one. No advice about the electrics I'm affraid its all a black art to me. Chin up.
Stephen

Last edited on Wed May 8th, 2019 08:33 am by GreenBR

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How on earth do you and Sharon climb up onto that bed mate.

Last edited on Wed May 8th, 2019 09:36 pm by AUSSIETRAINS

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Many thanks for the support in all its forms.  It is much appreciated.
Barry - I am using frog switching and all is correct.  Everything wired according to the instructions and mostly working as it should.  

Petermac - I do sometimes take ad hoc commissions at events though not considering myself a professional have been a little reluctant to do so.  The feedback I have always had regarding my weathering has been good (or sometimes better) and if I had anywhere I could use as a workbench I could make more progress.  As it is I am limited by having to work outdoors (nothing new there - except the weather!) because I cannot risk spilling weathering powder or paint onto a pale carpet in a rented flat and in such light as is available.  The next event is at Hayle MRC Exhibition (confirmed verbally at this stage so fingers crossed) over the late May long weekend.  With a certain retailer based not five miles up the road from there I should have no difficulty sourcing stock.  Whether I could sell it is another matter.  Not many of Cornwall's finest pop into a local show willing to part with £40 or more for a coach, £20 for a small wagon or close to £200 for a locomotive.

GreenBR - thanks it is always good to know you are not alone.  We have some support and things are turning around but this could be a long road.

Aussietrains - we don't.  That bed is mine.  I might be 62 next week but I'm still pretty fit and athletic so up and down a ladder isn't an issue for me.  We don't share, and haven't done so for some years, purely by choice though it began when I was seriously ill in Australia and needed a lot of quiet rest following some treatment.  I also work shifts so having my own bed means not waking the other half at some very unsocial hours indeed.

And now the good news.  Today I removed everything from the layout and started checking methodically from joint to joint, point to point to see what was amiss.  The mysterious short where I have a power feed at the toe of a point but the other end is a dead-end has had me stumped for ages.  Nothing seemed to fix it and no-one could explain it.  Mid-morning today I fixed it!!!  I am using Peco pre-wired joiners for power supply in most places and have a pair of them placed between two points feeding both toes.  Quite by chance a loco bridged the join while under power and stopped. I checked the joint and one of the joiners was not supplying current.  I don't know why.  It was a sung fit and not damaged but might possibly have a broken wire in the sheathing.  So after many months of frustration and blue air I replaced that small piece and GUESS WHAT - IT WORKS!!!!!

I also traced another short to a back-feed between two points so inserting an IRJ in one ral between those has fixed that problem as well.  I learned too that I only need one IRJ not a pair when creating isolated sections of track in sidings, though I still need them on both rails to ensure crossovers don't short out.  So I have been trying to wire and switch in a more complex manner than is necessary.  

I have some push-to-make switches ready wired which I used to test the isolation in the sidings.  This will work better with on-off switches but I don't have many right now and none are wired.  But I was able to prove that of all the track currently laid everything (subject to a final-fix wiring of the double-slip and adding the required switches) actually does work.  There is more to do at the other end of the layout but lessons learned will be applied there and hopefully make things easier.

So ..... I can move on to final-fix wiring and final pin-down of the track much of which is unpinned to allow for the language, frustration and repeated changes I have been making.  

Progress is being made.  




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Hi Rick,

I'm sorry to hear that life has been difficult with you and your partner and sincerely hope that things may improve and give you more happy times to enjoy.

Good news with your methodical approach in finding and fixing the fault and getting trains running again. You sound like a much happier modeller, which brings smiles to us all.

Well done and sincere best wishes for happier times ahead.

Very best regards,

Bill



Last edited on Thu May 9th, 2019 10:04 am by Longchap

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:patheadWell done Rick. Electrics - tick. Final plan - tick. Track fixed - tick. 
Onwards and upwards!! :pathead

Barry

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Bravo!

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Well its all been said really,  I do hope that things improve for you both, mental problems are a cruel blow .
I can only pray for you and wish you good luck Rick.  Please try to not be too long in posting ,anything will do.

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Having satisfied myself that the electrics work on at least half the layout I can move right along.  Today, without any ceremony, the first ballast was laid on Waddlemarsh.  Not a great deal but it has been a few years since I did any serious ballasting and for this layout I am using a finer ballast than previously.  I wanted to check I still had my "hand in".  It seems to be OK.  

I also began the task of weathering the goods shed - not completed yet - and have placed it more or less where it will end up for effect.  


The photos are on the SLR.  I am in the process of changing over computers so am not uploading any more images onto this one.  I should have the changeover completed and pictures available in the next couple of days.

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Looking forwards to seeing some photos 

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Some quick pics off the phone. 




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Nice, Rick. I'm glad you are getting back into things. I hope you and Sharon can overcome the health problems too. Wishing you both well.

:hmm

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Looks like plenty still going on Rick.

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Folks,

Waddlemarsh continues to advance slowly but surely.  I have been unable to access this site for a few weeks but thanks to the intervention of Alan, Martin and a good dose of Reynard's Disease at the keyboard I am finally back in.


There is a slight hiatus in photos being available as I have removed all images from the old computer as part of the changeover to the new one.  I am therefore not uploading any for now but there should be a photo update soon.


About half of the required area is ballasted with some ground cover having been added at the same time.  There is now a protective board between the layout and curtain preventing the latter snagging on rolling stock and also preventing any derailed stock from falling to the window-ledge or floor.  The first part of the backscene - which has been placed before and is seen in earlier photos - is now fixed in position.


Train movements continue on a test basis with me being happier now that most moves work as intended and others will do so once I have the insulated joiner switches wired up.


My attention has been diverted in two other directions recently.  We have been advised by our commercial landlord that they have sold the block we live in.  This has caused some concern as we were unaware of the intentions of the new owner and might have been out on our ears at the end of next March when our tenancy renews.  Today we received an emailed statement suggesting this will not be the case.  While that isn't "in writing" it is often as good as "in writing" gets in this electronic age.


In addition my wife has been increasingly unwell of late and has a stay in hospital booked starting next Monday.  This should be for routine surgery and recovery but one never quite knows what may be found.  On the positive side she has managed her anxiety very well recently without medication (which she has available) and whilst unwell and apprehensive she could be a lot worse.


In addition, as if that wasn't enough, I have been quite busy with the weathering roadshow which now goes out under the name of Penhayle Weathering.  Seven dates have been or are in the diary for the year the next of which is next Saturday 13th July at the Twickenham & District MRC Open Day.  The feedback I have had - and the immediate re-bookings - suggest I am getting something right.  


See you again soon and thanks for the support.
Rick


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Hi Rick
Good to hear from you again.... sorry to hear about the problems but some silver linings in there too.  Look forward to your photographic updates...

Regards

Michael

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Glad you are making progress, Rick, and also that the roof over your heads sounds as if it will continue.

Please wish Sharon well from Agnes and me for her surgery.


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Pleased you are now again making progress on the layout Rick.
I have noticed a few of your facebook posts about the weathering demo`s i saw you did the Hayle show.

Lets hope the health issues disapear after the surgery and you get that all important continued tenancy agreement.


Brian

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Hey Rick. 
Sorry to hear of your issues but glad you are getting some time on Waddlemarsh even if it is progressing slowly. 

Chris

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Gents,

Thank you for your kind comments.  I had been booked to do a weathering demonstration for the Hayle MRC August show as well but this is looking less likely now as I shall probably need to be at home looking after my wife.  I have yet to formally advise Hayle of this as it won't be a definite decision for a week or two so those of you who may be, or know, members I am trusting to keep this private for now.


I shall most certainly pass on the best wishes and greetings to Sharon who is about to endure a week of pre-operative dietary restrictions in addition to the normal stresses involved in anticipating surgery.


There is some ballasting to be done over coming days and I intend that for the next session I shall set up the camera to film the process and post the result at some time.  As this would be a video running for perhaps 10 - 15 minute sit will be posted by way of a YouTube or SmugMug link rather than directly on this site.


The tentative plan is that with at least two weeks of being home as much as possible to provide care that during this time I shall do my utmost to also join the wires and fit switches to the control panel which will take the layout several big steps closer to being a working whole.  I also need to pack up and put away the stock currently residing on it which is not intended to run on it (out of era or area, or both) and which is largely my weathering demonstration stock.  I should then be able to see the wood for the trees!

Sol
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Give my best to Sharon, Rick & you look after yourself so you can look after Sharon.

Gwiwer
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Thank you Sol I will on both counts.  And it's good to hear from you again.

The threatened ballasting video has been made and uploaded.  I'll link to it here and create its own topic for wider enjoyment.


Definitely not the definitive "how to ballast" and not even "How I ballast" but more like "How I ballasted this bit today".  With a little bit of green ground cover thrown in.


https://youtu.be/viaLRIq09Eo

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More moving trains. Including the bits I ballasted and greened yesterday. If it doesn’t start please click on the image to play. You are allowed to ignore the bits lying around and the temporary wire powering an otherwise dead section. 

Two locos which both carried 33xxx numbers for some of their lives help each other into the yard. Which, if either, has failed is open to your imagination. On the far siding an M7 has brought in a rake of empty wagons which are then draw out to the headshunt by the duty shunter in this case a class 03. 

https://gwiwer.smugmug.com/ModelRailway-1/Model-railway-videos/n-S4bmc/i-WTgsVVf

Last edited on Tue Jul 9th, 2019 04:33 pm by Gwiwer

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Enjoyed that Rick ,thanks.

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It's good to see some movement, Rick, and you have a really good variety of stock, nicely weathered to your usual standards.

As to that extra wire, this is the Southern Region, so just paint it dirty brown and leave it where it is.  :cool wink

Last edited on Wed Jul 10th, 2019 12:32 am by SRman

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Moving trains are good to see Rick a milestone moment getting things running .

I saw at least 2 class 41`s there Rick

Brian

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All of the six released “class 41” locos, which  BR WR described as “D6xx”, are owned. Only five were built but in response to demand one has been released in two different liveries. 
The designation Class 41 appears to have been first used after these locos were withdrawn and when the two types of D8xx “Warship” became classes 42 and 43 very late in their lives. 


Class numbers were a precursor to computerised record-keeping which in its turn arrived later still but in time to have some of the D1xxx “Western” and D7xxx “Hymek” locos entered onto the TOPS database. They used their running numbers and never wore numbers in the 52xxx or 35xxx (respectively) series. Popularly known as Westerns or Hymeks, just as the 6xx and 8xx were known as “Warships” they were very seldom referred to by their class numbers. 


The same is true for the other WR hydraulic type, the D95xx, which were assigned class 14. Popularly known as “Teddybears” they were all withdrawn well before TOPS five-digit numbers were in use. One carries a non-authentic 14xxx number and BR blue livery in preservation. 


It is a moot point as to whether the Westerns would have carried 52xxx numbers had they lasted much longer. Officially they were never renumbered because they carried cast number plates and were not expected to last beyond 1972/3.  In the end they had a few more years service to offer due to late arrival of replacement stock.and a need for something with more grunt than a class 25 on the Cornish china clay trains. 

Barry Miltenburg
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Rick

Looking good!

I think I saw that you are going to be at the T&DMRC open day at Kerswell next Saturday so I will drop in and say hello.

Kind regards

Barry

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Yes indeed I am booked to give weathering demonstrations at the Twickenham & District MRC Open Day this coming Saturday.  Look for the stone viaduct display unit and the Penhayle Bay totem. 

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Yep! Good to see trains running on the newly ballasted track!  I'm also pleased to see that I am not the only one who seems to have several "projects" on the go at once on the layout....

Michael

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Twickenham went well.

They have asked me back to give more detailed advice and instruction to their club members on a date or dates to be decided in the autumn.


Ballasting of the remaining sections of Waddlemarsh should continue through the coming week but first I have to accompany SWMBO to (and hopefully back from) hospital tomorrow for a surgical procedure.  Once she is home resting I will not be able to make noise which will limit drilling and hammering but should permit soldering and ballasting.

Gwiwer
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A very important hole has just been bored. 
Why so important?  Because this marks the start of signalling the layout. With ballasting well in hand I need this signal in place before completing the groundwork in the area. 

It’s another step forward. And something else to wire up when I’m not allowed to make noise. 


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Are you running the signals off point motors Rick or some other device?

Brian

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These are Dapol signals which have their own inbuilt 9v motors. If wiring to a 12v supply it is necessary to include some sort of resistance to prevent excess current blowing the motors. They were once thought ok for 12v DC and 16v AC but large numbers of motor burn-outs have caused the manufacturer to recommend 9v DC only. 

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Sorry Rick

What i meant was what are you controlling the signals with i.e and infra red switch or something or some other control board or or you operating them manually with a switch.


Brian

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Hi Rick

It was good to see you and your weathering items at Twickenham on Saturday.

I bought some of the Dapols and managed to blow them up.  When I as down in Hampshire I went to The Engine Shed where the chief man made a few choice comments about the Dapol product.  He recommended a particular power transformer that they used on their demonstration layout and I bought one.  The signals have worked perfectly ever since.  I bought cheap at first and paid the price of fried signals.  The new transformer was £20 and can power 5 or 6 units I think.  Well worth the investment, especially as I see the new Dapol Junction signals are on the horizon.

Kind regards

Barry

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Good to meet you too Barry. Thank you for dropping by and chatting.  I met quite a number of people some of whom I know from RMweb and Facebook. The day was busy - easily the busiest demonstration day so far - with barely a pause from start to finish and sometimes four or five interested parties all watching me at work. 

The Dapol signals will be  controlled as they were on Penhayle Bay namely with Peco lever switches and powered from the Morley Vortrak auxiliary output. Though I shall have to find a way of stepping down the voltage. On the Bay they were powered at 12v and a couple burned out and were replaced. The junction signals so far announced are GWR pattern so of no use to me here. The only signal requiring a route indication may be fitted with a Traintech “feather” if I can be satisfied that will work.   It will require nothing more than an on-off switch. 


The distance from controller to signal will also be more like 1m compared with as much as 15m previously. Meaning there is less scope for voltage drop and,  l hope, no need to develop a “long pull” technique of holding the switch at its mid-point for a second to allow the current to travel to the signal!  

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You should be able to step down the voltage with simple resistors in the line Rick.


Brian

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Work continues. A little more ballasting has been done. The "electric" lines through where the station will be built have been straightened against a steel rule and pinned down. I already have plenty of Code 60 rail and plastic "pots" to represent the juice rail though this will only be dummy. It only needs to be visible for about the length of six coaches and it isn't worth the large amount of very intricate work which would be required to make it live and have properly powered SR trains. Besides which the pick-up shoes on Bachmann, Hornby and Dapol items are all in different positions and would require micro-surgery to be converted to live operation. Hopefully more pictures soon.

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You could always save yourself the worry Rick by modelling LNER/LMS .............................. :mutley

Are the "pots" a bought in item or have you made them ?

Gwiwer
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The "pots" are a Peco item, product code IL-120, and are designed to accept their Code 60 rail.  This gives a reasonable representation of SR-style conductor rail when using Code 75 or 100 running rail though is not a perfect profile.  Black-sheathed wire of the type we often use on our layouts will be used to represent the heavy-duty cables associated with third-rail electrification.

As the modelled location is largely a freight transfer location somewhere south-west of London it will feature LMR and ER (NER) motive power but alas for Petermac not the LMS / LNER steam he might wish for.


The only steam will be SR types with the exception of a couple of GWR pannier-tanks and one of those wears London Transport maroon livery.


Tonight's little victory was getting the three-way point to the fiddle yard test-fitted and with that in place a loco was run under power from one end of the layout to the other without stalling or needing a push over dead spots.   


The next hurdle is to persuade the crossover-with-slip (three points plus a single-slip diamond custom-built into one unit for me) to pass current as intended.  If that works I'll have a fully-powered layout at last.




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Slow and steady progress continues to be made. Today the ten road fiddle yard had all its tracks trimmed to length and placed in position. These may be glued to the cork or simply left unfixed - I'm not sure yet which will happen. They don't need to be fixed for any reason. They cannot be track-pinned as they rest on top of a shelf unit which forms part of my office / library set-up.

When fully operational I intend to fit uncoupling ramps at the inner ends of all these roads. This will permit the manual removal removal of a loco with just a lift. As these will be hidden roads and I am using loop couplers I can use the basic spring-loaded ramps without need of magnets or anything fancy.

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A 10 road fiddle yard with nothing glued down Rick - you've got to tell me more !!


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The cork provides enough friction to keep the tracks where they should be.  As there is no ballast or decoration the occasional minute movement is of little consequence.  I might end up using PVA in a few key spots but for now this works.

Two images show the set-up.  One is a simple end-on view taken from where the scenic break will be placed and the other at an angle to illustrate the compact site with computer, desk, library shelf (one of several!) and above it all the bed at the height of just five feet from the floor requiring a well-rehearsed duck to get into the work space!





And they seem to be sideways.  I cannot fix this problem as it is an incompatibility between iPhone and YMRC software.  Both were taken upright and uploaded upright but display sideways.  

Last edited on Sun Aug 18th, 2019 11:19 am by Gwiwer

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I see what you're doing now Rick.  Will you have some kind of edge guard on the right hand one ?  :shock:

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I shall probably need one.  My favoured option currently is to use strips of foam board lightly glued to the edge of the shelf.  
In other news ballasting continues and I have reached the stage of filling in the awkward bits around points and crossings where the necessary holes in the baseboard also require some card shimmed in around the motors.


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The days have turned darker and damper meaning there is less incentive to pursue "outside" interests and a little more time to get on with the layout.  

Recent quite modest works have seen the yard crane fitted to its final position, with the base units glued and ground work completed.  The uprights and gantry are demountable and will remain demounted while the layout is in-build in order to avoid damage and permit ready access to the tracks behind.  Related work has seen the good shed weathering completed (including the breaking of a couple of windows - done with a 0.7mm bit in the pin-vice) and the painting of the access road which is nothing more than a mix of Woodland Scenics paints though in part these have been applied over fine ballast.  

The wagon is an Oxford Rail "Warwell" carrying a Kernow MRC commissioned compressor and shunted by a Heljan class 07 loco.  All of course carry my own weathering.  In the wider shot without the crane two vans carry my weathering over the factory-applied coating though the chalk details are as manufactured and not my additions.






Last edited on Thu Oct 17th, 2019 08:44 pm by Gwiwer

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Wow look at the transformation! It’s starting to look great. 
Most photos for me too go the wrong way from my phone, I have to put them in the computer first. 

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Photos off the phone seem to post sideways no matter what I do.  I have to persuade them to "forget" their origin (no doubt something in the code) and make them believe they came from a real camera.  Those from the DSLR and bridge cameras never have this problem.  The technique for phone pics is a slightly time-consuming upload via the computer to SmugMug and then downloading back to the computer before using the upload link on this site.  

Meanwhile the layout proceeds very slowly along and I have now to understand the wiring requirements for a piece of specially-built pointwork.  This is a scissors crossover but with one of the four points being a double-slip diamond.  It allows two tracks to feed three sidings with entry and exit available in any direction.  Once that is working and pinned down the layout should be fully wired and working as regards traction current.  The third rail for the passenger line will be a dummy; I have conducted trials aimed at having it live and used for traction feed but our various manufacturer's tolerances and scaling mean that the pick-up shoes are in entirely different positions across the brands.  For a couple of metres of visible running line that was going to be too much effort for too little gain and the "live" rail will not be live.




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Hmm - "bonne chance mon ami" - as we French electronic wizards would say.

If you need any advice with your wiring Rick, just ask me ............................ :???: :???: :???: :cheers :mutley

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I might need advice on untangling spaghetti.  That should be accompanied by a bottle of Laughing Water of course.  

SWMBO is unwell and is due into hospital on Monday.  This gives me a little time at home while she is recovering to both be close to her and deal with matters outstanding on the model without too much interruption.  I have taken next week off work so hopefully will be able to make some progress.

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An update.

SWMBO has been home recovering from her surgery for a few days now and is doing well. She still has at least two more weeks off work.

The layout is not recovering and lurches from short circuit to short circuit. In fixing the latest one I managed to cause more damage which means I now need to replace a yard of plain and ballasted track in addition to re-fettling the offending Y-point.

I am going to have to get a diagram drawn because if I can't figure out what needs to be don I shall either tear out my remaining hair or tear up the track and try flower arranging instead.

Over two years and the only progress made has been to move shorts from one place to another .......

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Rick

Flower aranging is over-rated

Let us have a diagram and where the problems appear to be and the combined Brains of YMRC will see you right!!

Barry

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A diagram will be sorted.

Would it be easier to just have a plain track diagram without showing where the feeds etc are and allow folk to fill in the blanks, as it were?  



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Gwiwer wrote: A diagram will be sorted.

Would it be easier to just have a plain track diagram without showing where the feeds etc are and allow folk to fill in the blanks, as it were?  




I would find a track diagram showing the existing feeds helpful and in addition the existing location of all IRJs (insulated rail joiners) is essential.

I am sure it will all be resolved Rick

Best wishes

John

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Thanks John and it's good to hear from you again.  I seem to arrive at the computer on my way to bed every evening and therefore without the time to draw up the required diagram but I hope to get it done very soon.  

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Here is the mess I have got myself into.  The first two are the wiring diagrams supplied with the custom-built crossover track which is shown as "A" in the track plan.  You will notice that the diagram caters for a crossover with a plain diamond but the unit is actually a double slip not a plain diamond.  I therefore have no idea how to wire it correctly.  

The colours used on the wiring diagram are as fitted to the track piece and all those which exist are fitted exactly as shown.  However there are "doubled" or "piggy-backed" auxiliary switches (Peco PL-13 as per diagram) which is something I cannot get to work.  They simply will not piggy-back with each other.  The bar from the point motor is not long enough to go through two and where I have got them doubled up they jam the motor.  


At the bottom is the actual track plan with the position (as of today) where I have power inputs and IRJs.  Clearly there is something not right because while individually most parts of the layout will work under power there remain dead sections through several points and both double-slips, plus there are numerous shorts which I don't understand enough about to rectify.  

All points are Peco code 75 electrofrog and all are fitted with PL-13 accessory switches except for the three-way which has nothing fitted, and neither do the points in the fiddle yard which lead to dead ends because frog switching here is not required.  

Good luck!







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Hi Rick

Could I suggest that we take this in stages taking one section of simple trackwork at a time and leave the 3 way and diamonds until the basic areas are sorted.

Taking this approach lets focus right now solely on the twin sidings and tracks leading up to the fiddle yard A at power feed 1

There are two points back to back from this single power feed.....It would be helpful if you numbered the points but for now lets call them A1 (top)  and A2 (bottom)

[1]   A1 must be isolated on the ends (toes?) .....as shown there will be a short whichever way this point is thrown.

I assume A1 has switched polarity? Check that this now works correctly

I assume A2  is not switched and relies on the turnout blade to power the frog ?

Personally I think I would have isolated the two points and added another power feed


[2] Isolate all four ends of the diamond/double slip (?) leading to the fiddle yard A......we will add a separate power supply for this later


[3] Sidings  SA1 thru SA4 are now powered and should work without issue.....confirm

[4]  Add a power feed to the bottom siding SA 5

[5] Check trains will run from each siding on both routes up to the diamond.


When you are absolutely satisfied this all works we can address the diamond or double slip  

Hope this helps......Nec aspera terrent ......my old army motto   "Difficulties be damned"

John





Sol
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Rick, I know you are a DC man so can I suggest you read this page for starters
https://brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical_Page_3.html

it has basic frog wiring for normal turnouts, slips & scissors crossovers.

I personally would not use 2 PL13's ganged but a PL15 twin microswitch

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Hi Rick,

Did you want a double slip in the middle with a branch to the upper right, or a crossover (diamond) in the middle and a slip upper right? The examples I have seen are the latter. Crossover wiring is simple, basically continuity and isolation, that would have left the slip, which is straightforward. These assemblies are made from Peco offerings, so no real track building, just cut and shut. Or was this a custom build?

Nigel

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Nigel the crossover unit at "A" is a custom build using Peco standard pieces trimmed and wired as though it were three turnouts and two plain diamonds (one in the middle and one top right).  I need the double-slip where it is, and it is a part of the module so cannot be easily changed, because I wish to have all five sidings fed from the top track and feeding the one immediately below it.  

Sol I already have that page saved and have read it  couple of times.  I also have Ian Morton's book Aspects of Modelling - Electrics which is a good guide but of course cannot cover every scenario.


John I shall try to follow your thoughts when I have an hour or two to spare at the layout.  

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Hi Rick,

So the slip is at B (which would correspond to the photos of this arrangement on the web and eBay). Missed that on the diagram :oops:. 3 long points, 1 crossover, 1 double slip. I noticed you have live frogs in the diamond. Life is a lot simpler if they are insuls or dead metal.

I would contact Mr. Nicholls to see what is wrong.

Nigel

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I was thinking of rebuilding the piece using insulfrog points but the chances of something stalling increase somewhat. I shall be running numerous small tank locos and 0-6-0 shunters for example.

BCDR
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Hi Rick,

An 0-6-0 will usually trundle across insulfrogs or for that matter a dead metal frog as long as the frog is shorter than the wheelbase. The insulfrog design is different to the electrofrog - around 2-3 sleepers for the insulfrog, around 7 for a large radius electrofrog. Can you get insulfrogs in code 75?

If you are rebuilding it's worthwhile shortening the distance between the closure rail and the frog.

Nigel

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Rick/Nigel

I have used insul Code 75 crossings and they work fine without any hesitation with 6-coupled tank engines.  I don't have any 4-coupld so cannot comment.

Barry

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I'm not at the stage of rebuilding just yet.  Despite one loose blade on the double-slip which I'm sure can be dealt with it remains easier to my mind (and with an amount of collective support and assistance) to sort out what I've got that to start over.  

Gwiwer
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Sol wrote: Rick, I know you are a DC man so can I suggest you read this page for starters
https://brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical_Page_3.html

it has basic frog wiring for normal turnouts, slips & scissors crossovers.

I personally would not use 2 PL13's ganged but a PL15 twin microswitch
I now have a couple of PL15s  How should I wire them up in this context please?

Sol
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Rick, I have printed out the 2nd photo which shows PL15s and will trace the wiring & reply- who did that for you in the first place?

Sol
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Rick, i won't have a chance of looking at that for a couple or three days but the twin microswitchs PL15 are basically two PL 13's - one PL13 equal one of the microswitches.

Gwiwer
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Merry Christmas one and all.  

Gwiwer
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A slightly belated happy new year to one and all.

I have had the misfortune to be laid (literally) aside by a severe attack of gout since just after Christmas.  Being unable to get shoes onto a badly swollen foot has restricted me to indoors and the act of moving around - or trying to - has been so excruciatingly painful that even the neighbours have asked if all was well having heard the shouts of pain.  


Things are starting to improve.  I have made it back to work though that has been difficult and painful and only a very limited amount of walking around has been possible.  The job does not always require moving around, though does require standing all day, so I have managed to get by.  


I hope to get back to the model during this weekend with some slight electrical changes in the pipeline which should ensure things start to run smoothly.  


In the meantime new boxes arrive in the mail from time to time.  The contents are destined for detailing and weathering before being used in anger though are tested to ensure correct operation out of the box.  


The weathering roadshow has two dates pencilled in for this year so far of which the first is the Hayle MRC May exhibition.  The invitation was extended last year and is always done informally but I do need to confirm it with the organiser.  

Ed
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Sorry to hear about the gout Rick.

Both my late father and grandfather suffered, so I suspect I'll get it soon.

At the moment though, I've just got an awful cold.

Time of year I suppose.

Did you get your electrical problems fixed?


Ed

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I am not aware of gout running in families though there may be cases where it does.  No-one in my family ever suffered.  There is a history of rheumatoid arthritis on father's side but not of gouty arthritis, to give it its fuller name.

I am hopeful that the electrics will start to behave once I apply some advice given via RMweb.  I intend to make a start on things today but have a backlog of more urgent domestic engineering tasks to carry out first having been confined to bed / sofa for most of the past 10 days.  


Once the electrics are fine the rest should follow fairly quickly as I have many of the required bits just waiting to be used.  The conductor rail for the electrified line will be dummy using code 60 rail and Peco insulators though some standard black-sheathed modelling wire will be used to represent the appropriate cables.  I have previously tried to build a workable system powering electric trains via pick-up shoes but the variations of mass production and of necessity the sharp curves we often use on models made that unviable.  It can be done.  It requires rather more skilled micro-engineering than I have the capacity for. 

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Proper Job will aid your recovery Rick.

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Very Sorry to hear about that Rick and I know just how you feel as I've sufferred with it for over 20 years.   There are various types of gout and I don't get much swelling in my right big toe but the shooting pains - which are just like toothache - always comes about 3.00am and continues every 5 minutes or so until I get up and then gradually eases up as I walk around!   This usually goes on for a week or so and then I'm ok for a while until it comes back again.


A couple of things I would recommend:  do not eat offal of any kind (including Steak and KIDNEY Pie or LIVER etc) and do drink lots of water as this really helps.   Also there are all sorts of helpful tips you can find on the NHS and other websites.


I wish you well mate.


Ken.

Last edited on Sat Jan 11th, 2020 01:22 pm by Ken

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I don't eat offal anyway unless it's heavily disguised and the steak pie fails to mention its presence!  Nothing seems to be capable of preventing the onset of an attack and the drinking of water - whilst usually advised - can also mean there is a need to visit the toilet more often.  When movement of any kind results in screams of agony an urgent need to get from room to room is the last thing one needs!

I have found cherry juice settles things somewhat and is more palatable than endless water.  It also doesn't want to come out quite as quickly for some reason.  That and the prescription Indomethacin are what makes the difference to me.


The advice to cut out salt and certain foodstuffs (bacon being one over and above offal), plus the elimination of alcohol, makes some slight positive difference.  Raising the affected part and applying a cold pack (ice block or sacrificial "first aid" peas which will never be eaten but are kept purely for emergency use) does work.  I spent a few days with the ice block being changed hourly to keep things cool.  Ironically in bed I want to keep things warm!  


We're getting there.  The swelling is very much reduced now and so is the level of pain.  This has taken two weeks from onset which is typical for me.  I'll be back on my feet at the day job at 7am tomorrow meaning the alarm is set for 5am.  I might have free prescriptions these days but I still need to earn my keep!  

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Glad to hear you are on the mend.... a nasty affliction.  Looking forward to some more railway progress.
All the best

Michael

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My luck has struck again! I'm not quite over the cough nor the gout which have troubled me since Christmas. On Monday night I became very unwell suffering stomach pains and cramping. The short version is that I have been in bed for much of the week with what the NHS111 medic described as a gastric virus. Despite similar symptoms it is apparently not food poisoning and this thing is going the rounds.

I'm over this year already. Is it too much to ask for a couple of days' worth of half-decent health and to get back on my feet?

Once again the model has to take a back-seat for a while.

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You are in need of some fine Cornish air  Rick!




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Super D wrote:

You are in need of some fine Cornish air  Rick!



Indeed I am.  And a dose is scheduled for next weekend with friends from Lostwithiel.  

Gwiwer
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Work is in progress.  IRJs have been placed where I am told they need to be.  I am currently (pun intended) re-wiring the power feeds to have them correctly placed and with a common-return. 

A few new items of rolling stock have arrived.  At present these have been tested for correct operation but are not due to be weathered and placed into traffic for a while.  I have to build up a stock of items requiring weathering in advance of a handful of demonstrations and master-classes booked or pencilled in for the year ahead.  


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Rick,

I've sent you a PM for an off topic issue,

Colin

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Another day and another problem.

I was using the meter to check out a dead spot on a point which had been wired according to the plan I am now using and which should have had power. There was nothing between the plastic boss in the blade to the frog.

Suddenly there was a PING and most of the rails parted company with the plastic base. I really don't know why. It wasn't a new point but had not seen much use. The only future for it lay in the bin. A replacement has already been mailed and should be here over the weekend.

Once that is in and the wiring restored everything on the main running area should work. Assuming that is the case then I can move on to the dreaded custom-built crossover and a three-way point which both feed the main storage yard and will be all that remains in the way of full powered operation.

I hope !!!

Gwiwer
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And behold everything did not work.

I have more testing to do to understand why there are dead spots.  I have found a couple of points which are fitted with frog switching but which seem to rely on blade contact to pass power.  I don't know why that is and I am not about to tear up any more track to find out.  If I have to lift any more track it will be the whole lot and it won't be replaced.  


Next week I have some leave.  The weather is expected to be dire for at least a couple of days so I might find nothing better to do than crawl around under the boards swearing at wires ......... 

Sol
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And it is bit far me me to come to look over your shoulder....

Gwiwer
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Sol - indeed it is rather a long way.  I was most appreciative of your visit to Penhayle Bay which was a fair trek for you.  The extra few thousand miles might be the proverbial straw on the camel's back.  


Last edited on Tue Feb 11th, 2020 08:39 am by Gwiwer

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I'm close to a dunce at these problems Rick but did you wire the stock rails to the switch rails 'the so-called "DCC friendly system);  If so, did you cut the tiny factory installed link across the cut in the rails ?


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A double slip that I made nearly thirty years ago has "switches" between the rails, they're simply made with 9 thou guitar wire about half an inch long, when the point blades move the guitar wire connected to the tie bars touches a pin which is wired to the frogs causing contact.
There's two to each tie bar depending on the point direction, one is alway in contact and the other open, when the points are changed, the open one closes and the closed on opens. :)

Last edited on Sun Feb 9th, 2020 06:02 pm by Phil.c

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Rick, you have two 3 sections, one between Turnouts D & F and one to the right of H so any thing coming from C to D will allow all section 3 to be live. Likewise you have a lot of section 4 feeds 5 of which will also do the same.

back soon

Sol
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Electrofrog slip should be isolated and controlled by its own separate section switch unless you set up some complex interconnecting depending on what turnouts are set to use it.



I have marked up your drawing deleting some insulators and feeds, added feed 6, altered RHS 4 to 7 and a 4 to 5

it will mean some additional switching.


my drawing removed as requested. Feb 11

Sol
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Basically, if you have locos sitting in other tracks, then to stop them moving when you don't want them too, it relies on turnouts to be set against them or isolate each track.

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A bullet has been bitten.

The electrofrog double-slip which has been the cause of most of the electrical problems - either directly or indirectly - has been replaced with an insulfrog version.

I can paint the brown plastic frogs a better colour than they are. So far nothing stalls on them. And - after a minor hiccup which was expected on a trial and error basis - everything works. I fitted metal joiners to all ends but found that one arm needed IRJs to avoid shorting. With those fitted all the problems on the main part of the layout are now resolved.

Now to move on to the custom-built crossover which has its own wiring plan. And which now has Peco PL-15 accessory switches to replace the double-stacked frog switches suggested by the plan.

I can also now move on - once the disturbed ballasting has been made good - with other scenic and detailing work since all the remaining wiring (points and signals) is beneath the boards and will not require surface disturbance.

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And to address Sol's comments I shall be introducing some on-off switches to isolate certain sections of track. That is easy; a break in the power feed and the fitting of the switch is all that is required.

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https://gwiwer.smugmug.com/ModelRailway-1/Model-railway-videos/n-S4bmc/i-hTCSXMd/A
Stuff moving.  Crudely filmed on the iPhone with one hand while the other managed three controllers.  But it shows that stuff moves as it should over this half of the layout at last.  I still need to fit a few switches to have it exactly as I want but it's come a long way in the last few days.  

Now to work on the other end where another double slip lurks awaiting my attention .....  

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Wow there is a lot going on there with three movements and filming! I’d end up with a crash!
Looks good, I like the two class 33’s. I need to get me one of them!

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That looks great Rick - as Chris said - lots going on there.

Good standard of weathering too - I wonder who did that …………………. :lol: :lol: 

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I'm not too sure Petermac but the person responsible has been invited to a few exhibitions again this year to provide demonstrations.  And new for this year there might be some items I am prepared to sell if there is any interest.  As I am no longer able to run 12-coach main-line trains I have too much rolling stock now stored away and am unlikely to need all of it in the future.  

Sol
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Gwiwer wrote:   As I am no longer able to run 12-coach main-line trains I have too much rolling stock now stored away and am unlikely to need all of it in the future.  See, if you hadn't moved back to the UK, you had plenty of room Down Under on Penhayle Bay  :mutley  :pedal

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It's looking good, Rick. All the hard work  and trials and tribulations are coalescing to form a working and effective model.

:cheers

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Sol wrote: Gwiwer wrote:   As I am no longer able to run 12-coach main-line trains I have too much rolling stock now stored away and am unlikely to need all of it in the future.  See, if you hadn't moved back to the UK, you had plenty of room Down Under on Penhayle Bay  :mutley  :pedal

So true.  But if I hadn't moved back to the UK I would be missing a very important person who - subject to final examination - is about to become a Doctor of Environmental History and has just scored herself a Cambridge University invitation to lecture and lead workshops later this year.  

We still own the house in Australia though have no plans to return for the foreseeable future.  And I still own enough of the buildings and structures that if ever there was to be space I could reasonably easily re-create at least a part of Penhayle Bay.

In the meantime I shall Waddle on.  

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And so we move on. The next issue requiring my attention is an electrofrog three-way point. I have it wired exactly as per Peco's instructions on the packaging, it feeds three dead-end sidings so does not need additional power feeds beyond the blades and it has the rails bonded each side so as to avoid reliance on blade contact.

Both turnouts are dead. The straight route curiously receives very low power. There is no short indicated nor do locos behave as though it is shorting - they simply slow down but continue.

The multimeter shows there is 13v when the controller is at full power, and this is available through both left and right-hand rails and all the way along the sidings provided the other side is connected to a rail on the toe-side of the little plastic lug in the blades. For the middle road the meter shows a current of 3.5v all the way through.

Stumped? I certainly am.

Sol
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Rick. I found when using the 3 way Code 75 that depending on track selection, the other tracks are not always isolated but one was reverse polarity so any loco I placed in there before would come to life !

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Yes, as Ron says, the nature of the wiring means two of the frogs are live at once, and this could cause problems if there is a locomotive on the tracks on the dead-end side. I would not rely on the point to supply power to the tracks beyond, but would go the extra mile and put insulating joiners on all but the outer rails, and separate feeds to the tracks in the sidings (with, if desired, isolating switches too for DC operation).

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Gents, thank you.  I suspect the "fix" will end up being to use an insulfrog point in place of the electrofrog one.  That would not be ideal but there are issues with supplying power to the sidings.  

In my very confined space I have built the main yard on top of a bookshelf across my office desk.  I cannot therefore drill into it to run wiring beneath although, as it is an off-scene yard, I could run surface wiring.  

I am also thinking about the number of switches I am now going to need.  Again there is a limit of space for the control area which must accommodate point levers, a few signal levers and a number of isolation switches.  The latter is all part and parcel of the electrofrog "experience" and if I was building this project from scratch as opposed to re-using previously-built and track-laid boards I might well have used insulfrogs from the outset.  

I'll have a think on the way forward.  

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Rick, this is Southern Region we are talking about: surface cabling wandering all over the place would look fine if painted a dirty brown. :D

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The electrical mysteries continue. 

Meanwhile I can make progress on the scenic side of things. Working more or less from the back to the front the first feature will be the creation of Waddlemarsh Halt. 

This will just (only just!!) accommodate a standard SR 4-car train although 2-car would be more common. 2-Bil and 2-EPB types will be the norm with others turning up or running through from time to time. The sidings allow for up to 6-car trains. 

Not finding anything readily available to represent SR “Exmouth Junction” concrete slab platforms I have invested in some 3mm foam-board sections. These have been coated in neat PVA brushed evenly and coated with a fine sand which was first used for the unpaved platform areas in the final version of Treheligan station on my previous layout. 

Also not having any work bench means the task was performed in the kitchen while no-one else was looking. 

One brush is used for spreading the adhesive.  A second brush is used for sweeping up the excess sand. 

Bald spots can be rectified later using spray-on PVA. The sheets can then be cut to size and slab joins scored in them. I am hoping to create the uprights by similar means. 










Last edited on Fri Feb 28th, 2020 02:35 pm by Gwiwer

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An update. I removed the three-way point fora full test of the electrics as there should be no way a low-voltage current should exist. The rails at the toe end promptly unfixed themselves from the plastic sleeper base perhaps having had enough of being fitted, removed, refitted and tested over and over again.

What ever the cause the point is irretrievably b*****ed and will indeed be replaced with an insulfrog version. The difference between asymmetric and symmetric, also the difference between Code 75 and Code 100, are not critical. I can drop in a code converter rail at the toe end of the new point and the sidings it feeds are already code 100 rail.

In the interim and until the new point arrives I have dropped in a spare point which I have to hand and which serves four of the five sidings. There are no electrical issues and it behaves exactly as I expect an electrofrog point feeding dead-end sidings would.

Which makes me wonder if there was a bigger problem with the now-deceased three-way in the first place. I may never know

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While waiting for the new point, and while waiting for the art shop to open tomorrow as I need some flexible board, I can still take pictures. A lightly weathered Merchant Navy and a grimy gronk share siding space under the glare of the workstation lamp. 










Last edited on Sun Mar 1st, 2020 09:58 am by Gwiwer

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Very smart weathering, there Rick.  They look like they are in service, rather than the "close to the scrapheap" that you can sometimes see.  What method did you use?
Michael

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Thank you Michael.  I use powder weathering sometimes supported by mapping pen to give depth to body seams and door frames.  I usually apply the powder then wipe some of it off as I learned this not only gives a more realistic uneven effect but can also produce a sheen resembling varnished paintwork.  I find it quite easy to wipe away powders from plain panels which leaves dirt clinging where it should be - in the nooks, crannies, corners and grilles. I hope to revisit the Merchant Navy with a new (for me) finishing technique applying household polish with a cotton-wool bud to the wheels to resemble the effect of oil and water which one often saw.  

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The offending three-way point is replaced, insulfrog instead of electrofrog with the flexible track accommodating the change in geometry that also required quite readily, allowing reliable movement into and out of the “freight” side of the yard.  

New ID photo backscenes arrived during the week to complete that task. I cut a groove in the cork tiles to act as a guide for the mounting board which has the photo-scene glued to it. I used MDF for the straight areas but the scene has to come around the same curve as the tracks meaning I had to find something which would take and hold the curve without creasing or bowing. The groove was filled with glue, the backscene placed into the groove and held for several minutes until secure.  

There are gaps and a couple of pegged areas but the bulk of that task is now done.  
I shall fit wood uprights behind the card later and also tie-strips to firm up the joins between card strips.  
In what is still a busy and chaotic scene a Crompton leads a short parcels rake from fiddle yard to goods yard. The running isn’t as smooth as it needs to be but this is still a work in progress. 

https://gwiwer.smugmug.com/ModelRailway-1/Model-railway-videos/n-S4bmc/i-pkPZBbG/A

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The backscene became a jig-saw puzzle.  Such are the joys of using pre-printed I guess.  There are far more seams than I would like and they detract from the overall appearance but can be smoothed to an extent in image editing software.  
 
I am not sure about the trains appearing to run off the scene through the back of a house but I wasn't able to arrange it any other way.  And the other side of the aperture also requires more attention as there is a line where I don't want one between sky and scene.
 
However  .....
 
From top to bottom we see the "naked eye" view and all the joins in the printed backscene, then an edited version to remove them, a side-on view illustrating my point about the train running through the house and an overhead view giving an impression of where I am up to.  The two electric units run around the outer curves which are now hidden to reach the two reversing sidings which have been hidden for some time now via a short length of single track which acts as a crossover.  
 
Keen eyes might also recognise the dirty white fence placed along the base of the backscene.  It has been repurposed from Penhayle Bay and was originally the lineside fence above the loco shed and goods yard.  








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A nice bit of photo editing for the likes of us - very seamless. You have highlighted a problem with  detailed backscenes, where things don't quite fit our track plan.  I chose a sky only version, with the intention of adding my own detail, but even that sky presented some problems.  I rather wish they were produced in 4ft sections which would mirror my fairly traditional boards.  Still, I like the quality of the scenes, so I shall have to live with the limitations.
Michael

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Furtling in the Waddlemarsh continues at a slow but steady rate despite all that is (or isn't) happening in the world outside.  

I have taken some good advice and have been steadily kit-bashing two Ratio SR concrete footbridge kits into one double-length span to fit across the "sky exit".  The angle and curve of the tracks makes this a particularly tricky location and a millimetre-perfect fit is required.  

The kits are designed to sit on a platform; mine will be ground-mounted so in order to elevate the bridge sufficiently for trains to pass beneath I have had to create a couple of small risers of land in an already very confined space.  The result is trains pass with no more than 1mm clearance in a couple of spots.  

Far from finished here is the work in progress.  The kit builds to a station footbridge with a 90-degree turn halfway up the steps; mine has been re-worked into a straight ascent on one side to fit the location and a cut-off where it meets the backscene on the other where some missing detail will have to be carefully painted in.  

I propose to coat the bridge with a very fine sand which will resemble the concrete finish of the prototype.  Detailing the area will include making use of Ratio SR concrete fence panels shown in their "as supplied" form to provide secure separation between railway and footpath.  












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Brilliant idea, what a great way to hide the entrance/exit to the backscene.  That will look brilliant once complete!

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Yep, as Chris said Rick, brilliant idea and nicely executed.

You must be enjoying how it's all comming to life now.

Best,

Bill

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That's done the trick and solved the problem perfectly Rick.  It looks much better now.  :thumbs

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Some more bashing of the kits has produced a result I am happy enough with.  Instead of painting on the "missing" sections where the space is too narrow for the full kit I have judiciously cut down the width and built the kit hoping the effect does not detract too much.  Bits you don't see (but are visible from the overhead view) don't really matter; the slight irregularities and gaps may end up looking less obvious when it is coated in sand and weathered down.  

The long span isn't unique - they existed at locations such as Seaton Junction and Exeter Queen Street (Central) and no doubt many other places.  The unusual angle of the smoke deflectors likewise isn't unheard of in reality.   There is or was probably an "Exmouth Junction" style concrete bridge somewhere which had a flight of steps angled at 45 degrees to the span rather than 90 or 180 but I cannot think of one.  

What matters is that it does the job for me in this location and as plastic kits go it doesn't look so bad.  Space is extremely restricted; I even had to trim the lamp down to half-relief on the right-hand side so that it sits flat against the backscene in order to achieve vertical legs which don't foul passing trains.  

The good folk living in the houses across the railway will now have direct access to Waddlemarsh Halt.






Last edited on Wed Apr 1st, 2020 02:00 pm by Gwiwer

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Good bit of kit bashing there Rick that has worked out really well and covered the awkward tunnel bit.


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Hi Rick,

Nice bit of screening there.

Nigel

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That looks great, Rick.  :doublethumb :doublethumb :doublethumb

I don't know that I'd like to step through that gap in the stairs on a dark, unlit night! Aaaaahhhhhhhhh! 

:mutley :mutley


Selective compression is actually a very successful technique. I have seen it done in several ways by other modellers to great effect. From normal viewing angles, the narrower width is effectively invisible.

I have to do something similer to get passenger access to my Underground platforms from the high side at Newton Broadway. I have the Ratio footbridge with the iron trellis style to hack into something rather similar in angles and spans to what you have done.

I also have one of the concrete footbridges but it  was built as per the kit instructions to be at right-angles to the lines. However, like you, I have discovered that it is too low for ground mounting, and needs ramps or steps added to raise its height, so at present is unused, even though I know where it is intended to go.

:cheers

p.s. You and Sharon, stay safe.


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A method I have used for a realistic concrete effect was one described by Chris Nevard on one of his layouts.

You need the following spray paints, grey primer, red oxide, white & black.

You basically spray they grey as your base then spray short bursts from a distance the other three colours so that the paint lands on as big drops until you get the effect you like.

I used it on the concrete hut below



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That works really well, Andy.

My own method involves using an old, very stiff paint brush and stippling the brown onto the base grey coats.

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Footbridge update:

"Rickery" alert!!!

After some trial-and-error on the hidden side of the bridge I settled for a mix of Peco weathering materials to achieve the desired "rough" texture common to most well-worn concrete structures.  It wouldn't adhere with PVA nor hairspray, I didn't want to use that much poly-cement which might also have damaged the surface so I tried shaking the material over a layer of wet paint.  It holds.  

The entire bridge was therefore painted with a mix of three Woodland Scenic base colours stiffened with a goodly amount of gesso.  While that was wet I coated the visible parts of the bridge in the mix of "ash" and "cinders".  When dry I shook and then lightly brushed the excess off and saved it for another time.  

After I was happy enough with the result I then added some weathering powders including soot black around the smoke deflectors and some light rust and pale green to represent age and staining.

The camera has probably cut through a bit too much of the coating which to my eyes appears as a fairly even allover layer and is a reasonable approximation of the colour and texture I see on some 1930s panels at Twickenham station.  The eyes also don't see the weathering quite as strongly as the photos show - it appears more muted and realistic.  

The lamps are painted a mix of "unbleached titanium" and "Turner's yellow" picked out with a mapping pen and finally a piece of Woodland Scenics "Fine Leaf Foliage" is tucked in behind one lamp to conceal the remaining gap between bridge and backscene.  








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Looks good Rick - very much like the concrete bridge at Twickenham and others on the Hounslow or Kingston Loops.  The rusting and build up of filth adds to the overall look.


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A little more work today has seen the start of securely separating the footpath from the railway.  More concrete-effect, this time with the solid panels and posts, and some greening at ground level over the riser which has now been almost concealed.  The fence panels require slight weathering and final fixing and the groundwork requires detailing to complete this corner.  

Work is also under way at the other end of the bridge where more footpath will lead onto the halt.  Parts for the platform have been ordered from Dart Castings and will arrive when they get here allowing construction to begin.  

A class 08 shunter fusses with some ballast wagons - Heljan "Dogfish" recently arrived from our friends in Camborne.  I know they have TOPS panels which is a little too late for my 1960s theme but the heavy manufacturer's weathering almost blots them out.  


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Very nice transition thru the back scene Rick. Bravo.

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I agree with Marty, you have done a great job with what appeared to be a very awkward bit of scenery.  Having made the same footbridge, I am very impressed at your kit bashing too
Michael

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The "hole in the wall" has been a rather tricky spot to manage scenically.  Thank you for the positive feedback.  It is very much appreciated. 
Further furtling has taken place.  
 
The detailing along the line of the backscene has had its greenery built up to conceal the slight gaps and bits of white paper.  The concrete fence panels have been weathered and stuck in place and the footbridge has also been fixed down.  The points of contact are tiny and I'm not too sure I can trust the gluing at this stage but time will tell.  
 
The grass behind the houses has now been fenced off from the railway.  Keen eyes will observe that I have used GWR spear fencing rather than an SR style.  It might not be the final version but it will certainly do for now.  Very keen eyes may spot that the weathered white fencing used has been recycled from Penhayle Bay where it sat alongside the main line above the loco shed and yard; from the top image to the lower ones by the magic of modelling.  









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What's all this then?

Dart Castings SR platform supports and fence posts.  Peco conductor rail insulators going onto code 60 rail.  And a closer view of the castings - sorry it lost definition - showing the reason I have been boring holes recently.  4x0.5mm and 1x1.0mm per post to drill out, 100 off.  So 500 tiny holes plus those required to locate the "pots" into the sleepers .....  

3mm foam board covered in fine sand to create the concrete-slab platform of the halt.  

I am awaiting a delivery of piano wire for the fence wires and will attempt to get the castings looking like concrete after that is threaded through.  





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Well it looks as if you've had a boring week Rick !!

I saw your post on FB and thought you were drilling plastic sprue - didn't realise you'd invested heavily in metalwork.  :roll:

What's it like to drill - i.e. does it clog the drill fairly quickly ?

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Petermac wrote: Well it looks as if you've had a boring week Rick !!

I saw your post on FB and thought you were drilling plastic sprue - didn't realise you'd invested heavily in metalwork.  :roll:

What's it like to drill - i.e. does it clog the drill fairly quickly ?

It has been a remarkably boring couple of weeks!  Doing a few now and again - including just before bed most nights - results in the job getting done without my patience being exhausted.  

I will admit to being on my second 0.5mm bit now and am honestly surprised I haven't destroyed more.  They are the finest thing I have yet worked with, size wise.  

The casting is quite soft so easy to drill with the tiny amount of swarf just tapped off at the end of each bore.  The more difficult part is maintaining even but light pressure and having the pin-vice perfectly vertical with respect to the job.  Each bore can be done in one operation without a need to clean the drill part-way through.  

This is the half-way point.  50 down, 50 to do.  An extra pack is on its way from Dart Castings to boost the numbers as I am a few short and there have been a couple of breakages.  More posts have been terminally damaged than drills so far - by a factor of three to one.  

Last edited on Fri May 8th, 2020 04:49 pm by Gwiwer

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Good luck. I’m sure it’ll look fantastic once completed. 

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Thank you!  I am hoping so.  
The castings are designed to butt-fit rather than having one overlap the other as I am doing.  Ideally they would be soldered but I don't have the facilities to low-melt solder so many parts.  As much the absence of a suitable workspace as the out-of-stock low-melt solder.  

So I am super-gluing the two parts together with the overlap as shown.  It isn't quite right but the joins won't show and any irregularities in leg length can be trimmed.  The legs will need trimming anyway because as supplied and once fitted with the foamboard sheets they result in a slightly-too-high platform surface.  So no more work is involved there than was anticipated.  

There are two related and significant pieces of work to do before the platform can be completed.  I really must fix the short-circuit through the crossover at the yard end - which is hopefully the last of the electrical problems to attend to - and when that is done I need to trim some woodwork in order to have the tracks running straight through the platform area.  Currently there is a curve at one end caused by the fit of point motors at the crossover.  It is those motors which require wood to be cut back before the track is firmly pinned in place and the halt is built.  

It feels like a snail with a zimmer frame would make faster progress.  But progress is being made.  

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Ah, now I see.  I didn't realise the platform supports and fence posts were joined to form a single unit - I'd imagined the fence posts were just that ...........................

I wonder, why are you using wire for the fence Rick - wouldn't it have been pailings of some kind ?

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I am using wire because that is what the prototype used. 

Seen here at a location typical of the one being modelled the lower four* strands are twisted wire for which I shall use 0.4mm piano wire. The top rail is steel tube. I have 0.9mm piano wire coming but would prefer to use brass rod. 

Due to the current circumstances I cannot source fine gauge brass rod but may use it instead of wire at a later date.  

This image also shows the prototype of the concrete posts and supports I am currently working on. 

Public domain image sourced via Google. Creative Commons licence


* On closer inspection I only see three strands of wire on this station.  I would be happy using just three on mine because it represents 25% less threading of piano wire through tiny holes.  And 25% fewer holes to bore out on the other half of the job!  

Last edited on Fri May 8th, 2020 09:56 pm by Gwiwer

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Rick looking at your prootype photo you can get a similar laser cut kit like your platform/station i have this for my 0 gauge layout they do  a 00 version.



Brian

Last edited on Sat May 9th, 2020 05:01 am by Briperran

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You live and learn - I didn't know they used that kind of fencing on stations Rick - but then, I tend not to study "modern" !!  Also, I note Brian has similar fencing on his halt - I hadn't noticed that either - have you posted that photo before Brian ?

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It depends on your definition of “modern” I suppose. Those concrete halts with wire fences were a feature of the Southern Railway from the 1920s onwards. Many were built as lines were electrified or were rebuilds of earlier wooden halts at that time so date from the 1930s.  

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Petermac wrote: You live and learn - I didn't know they used that kind of fencing on stations Rick - but then, I tend not to study "modern" !!  Also, I note Brian has similar fencing on his halt - I hadn't noticed that either - have you posted that photo before Brian ?
Not here Peter but you would have seen it on MRC

Brian

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Gwiwer wrote: It depends on your definition of “modern” I suppose. Those concrete halts with wire fences were a feature of the Southern Railway from the 1920s onwards. Many were built as lines were electrified or were rebuilds of earlier wooden halts at that time so date from the 1930s.



Ah yes, "Southern" -  I'd forgotten - that explains it all ....................... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Briperran wrote: Petermac wrote: You live and learn - I didn't know they used that kind of fencing on stations Rick - but then, I tend not to study "modern" !!  Also, I note Brian has similar fencing on his halt - I hadn't noticed that either - have you posted that photo before Brian ?
Not here Peter but you would have seen it on MRC

Brian

Either I hadn't noticed it there Brian or it hadn't registered .............. :thud

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Petermac wrote: Gwiwer wrote: It depends on your definition of “modern” I suppose. Those concrete halts with wire fences were a feature of the Southern Railway from the 1920s onwards. Many were built as lines were electrified or were rebuilds of earlier wooden halts at that time so date from the 1930s.



Ah yes, "Southern" -  I'd forgotten - that explains it all ....................... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:mutley :mutley :mutley :mutley

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Through the eye of a needle .....
 
0.4mm piano wire is threaded through 0.5mm holes in the fence posts and will ultimately be weathered down.  50 posts per platform (maybe give or take a few) and four strands of wire per post.  That's a lot of threading.  Lots and lots ......... 
 
The top-most hole is 1.0mm and will have - hopefully - brass rod through it both for stiffness and because the top run on the prototype is steel tube not wire. 







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It's good for training the eyes Rick. :thumbs

What's the translucent choc block shaped thing in front of the locomotive in the photo ?

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Exactly what it looks like Peter. A choc-block waiting for the final point motor wiring. I am waiting for Peco to re-start production of their lever switches but there’s no rush.  That particular block is a plug-and-socket version for locations where there is a need to connect / disconnect the wiring.  I got it for the lift-out viaduct section of Penhayle Bay years ago but in the end there was no wiring run across that unit so the block remained unused.  It is now pressed into service as an alternative to buying new when any form of storage space is at a premium.  

Last edited on Tue May 12th, 2020 08:56 pm by Gwiwer

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Good move Rick.

The problem with storage space is finding what's in there !!  My storage space is full - people tell me I'm a hoarder - but I still often buy new because I can't find the old !!!

Those plug-in choc blocks are great, provided you don't plug and un-plug too often.  I've found they can become loose in time.

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As layouts develop so sweet spots for photography arise. I may have discovered one here. 
The photographer gets a cheery wave from the driver. 

In other news I have managed to source fine brass rod for the fence top-rail and this is awaited. More Dart Castings have arrived to allow completion of the halt including large “running-in” name boards, plus gradient posts for placing as one of the last things of all 


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That's a nice, calm shot Rick - no rushing around, just sitting simmering .............. :thumbs

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Today’s mail included the brass rod I had been waiting for.  This allowed me to start stringing up the fence for the halt platform. 

The top rail is 0.7mm brass which helps with stiffness and represents the steel tube used on the prototype. The wires are No.6 piano wire (0.4mm) and the posts are the drilled-out Dart Castings. 

One video and two stills show work in progress. The stills illustrate the partially-wired posts then the same with an unfinished platform panel placed on them as it will appear when complete. 

https://gwiwer.smugmug.com/ModelRailway-1/Waddlemarsh/n-w7M85z/i-wdjXkDq

E


Last edited on Mon May 18th, 2020 03:56 pm by Gwiwer

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I finally understand the shape of them! They really do look the part, they are worth the effort. 

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Good grief Rick - that looks extremely fiddly.  How many have you got to do ?

It's certainly going to look good when it's done.  :thumbs

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About 100 Peter. 50 or so for each platform.

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:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

"Bon chance" as we say here ...............................

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Merci beaucoup! I have a supply of Red Laughing Water to help me cope with the occasional stabbing of wire into finger as it goes through the hole.

And to ease the frustration of the occasional stubborn one where the wire just doesn't want to go through and insists on a re-bore of the hole. The holes are all fine - it's just the wire being fussy!!!

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TeaselBay wrote: I finally understand the shape of them! They really do look the part, they are worth the effort. Thank you.  The wires and brass rod are significantly over-scale but the finest I could locate.  I wouldn't want to work with anything less as there may not have been enough resilience and strength in the materials to cope with the inevitable stresses of construction.  Another school of thought was to just have the posts and not the wires on the grounds that they are in reality quite fine anyway and cannot be represented at anything close to scale.  That to my mind would look worse than over-scale fence wires.  

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An update.

Both platform fences have been fully strung.  It wasn't as easy as I hoped and one required a partial second attempt.  But they are done.  

I threaded the brass rod through the top first as that gives some rigidity.  It does bend quite easily as I discovered and the first run had to be replaced when it took on more bends than could be readily straightened out.  I then threaded the piano wire through the lower three holes.  The first series of posts had four holes drilled for this wire as there are that number of blind dimples on the castings.  Examination of prototype photographs from along the Sussex coast shows that only three strands of wire were used plus a steel tube along the top.  So three strands of piano wire and one brass rod it is.

Again the first set was a bit of a learning experience and I tried to thread one wire through the top holes then turn it back on itself to feed through the middle.  To no avail as it wouldn't pull through and a couple of the castings broke as I applied a little too much pull.  Luckily there are some spares.  So each wire was cut to just over the required length and fed through individually.  

The legs are not yet spaced correctly; the photos show the castings as wired up but they will be spaced at 27mm intervals matching the "concrete" platform slabs.  

Before I can position the legs I had to cover the bare boards with a little ground material.  Much easier to do that first than to try brushing it in afterwards!  So both sides now have ground cover along the platform areas.  The backscene took up a little PVA and shows crinkles in the pictures but should dry flat overnight.  Also present are a couple of lengths of conductor rail with "pots" slid on but again not yet correctly spaced.  These should be fitted to every fourth sleeper but as Peco has too many sleepers for correct scale I shall fit them to every fifth.  That should look OK, if not spot-on for accuracy, and avoid an "overpotted" look.  

I still have to prove the electrical issues across the crossover are resolved - probably a job for this weekend - and have also had to remove the signal from its position at the Up end of the platform site as it needs to be farther along to squeeze in a four-coach length platform.  Space was always going to be very tight but this can just be achieved.  Only just.  As with most things on Waddlemarsh it will be with a couple of millimetres to spare!





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Moving slowly along .....
 
The recalcitrant crossover still isn’t working as it should.  Hands-on assistance would be helpful but means, currently, that anyone willing to help would need to collect the unit from me, examine and hopefully rectify it elsewhere then return it. We are not in a position to offer hospitality indoors.  

The next phase of station-building requires accurate positioning and levelling of the assembled legs. 
 
For this purpose a block of scrap was formed into a fitting jig. Two grooves were cut for the rails, the block was then cut to height to ensure correct platform spacing from and above the running rails and drill marks were measured out for the next step. Which is boring more holes. Approximately 200x1.5mm. Quicker with the power drill but less destructive and more accurate with the pin vice. 







Last edited on Tue Jun 16th, 2020 07:32 pm by Gwiwer

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Speed, for this job Rick, is far less important than accuracy.  Time consuming and mind numbingly boring but it will look great when you've done it.  :thumbs

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A boring day.  Literally.  

A start has been made on the 200-odd holes required for the platform legs.  It's slow progress but it is slowly advancing.  There are a couple of spare legs in use as testers to prove the spacing is correct.  On the Up side where the footbridge feeds the halt from the housing estate there is very little space and the pin-vice is almost up against the back-scene.  That makes it hard to turn never mind the thought of using a power drill!  I couldn't get a drill in there if I tried.  

Each platform end will have three legs of reducing height to support the ramps; that at the base of the footbridge will also be a reduced width in order to accommodate the footpath access behind it.  
Compromises happened in real life.  East Worthing, which was built in this concrete halt style, has a short steep wooden ramp, just a plank really, beneath Ham Road bridge where there is insufficient space for a standard one.  

The platform width will now be 30mm not the 27mm which my calculations suggest is true scale.  This allows for the greater amount of lateral "slop" found on models compared with real trains and which must be allowed for when building structures such as station platforms. 

I'm sorry if the images display sideways for you.  I cannot rectify this.  They have been processed, rotated, saved and everything I can do but this site insists on them being displayed in landscape format.  I have also had to re-format the text multiple times to remove stray "space" and [] formatting characters which insist on displaying until removed manually.  That is one of the reasons I seldom post here these days; the forum software seems incompatible with Mac products.  

Edit: screenshot of the correct orientation






Last edited on Tue Jun 16th, 2020 07:31 pm by Gwiwer

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Hi Rick, I'm afraid that Apple photos can be a right pain to rotate. Its been a known issue for quite some time. Apple devices can read which way up a photo was taken on an apple device even if the phone or tablet was turned sideways. As soon as you take the photo out of Apple software that information is lost. Even rotating it within Apple software and then exporting it, the information gets lost again. I've done a few for Kevin of this Parish, and others and the ONLY way I could get it to work was to use an online Editor, upload the photo, rotate, then download it to your device so the old orientation info is wiped and the new photo displays correctly when uploaded to the forum. ( Be aware the original copy on your device will STILL have the old info)
I've taken the Liberty of re doing your two photos and saving them into my Gallery.
Option 1, I can  re do the links in your posts, displaying the Images from my Gallery
Option 2 you can re do the links in your posts displaying the Images in my Gallery 
Option 3 you can download the re done images from my gallery, re upload them to yours, and if all ok with orientation, re post them in your posts. Then I can delete from my gallery so they remain under your control.

The only copies I now have are the two in my gallery 

HTH

Cheers

Matt

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Thanks Matt.

In the end I took option 4 - screenshot the images and upload in the correct orientation.  

Now back to making little holes!  

Last edited on Tue Jun 16th, 2020 07:33 pm by Gwiwer

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Good option lol, must VERY theraputik making all them there holes   :thud.   :thumbs

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Barchester wrote: Good option lol, must VERY theraputik making all them there holes   :thud.   :thumbs
:mutley :mutley :mutley


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Barchester wrote: Good option lol, must VERY theraputik making all them there holes   :thud.   :thumbs


Do you know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall yet Rick?

Crack on that man,

Bill

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Longchap wrote: Barchester wrote: Good option lol, must VERY theraputik making all them there holes   :thud.   :thumbs


Do you know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall yet Rick?

Crack on that man,

Bill
No.  But I believe there were four thousand in Blackburn :cool wink

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Have you fallen over Rick ?  Last time I looked, you were drilling horizontally - now it's vertically ................ :mutley

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Gwiwer wrote: Longchap wrote: Barchester wrote: Good option lol, must VERY theraputik making all them there holes   :thud.   :thumbs


Do you know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall yet Rick?

Crack on that man,

Bill
No.  But I believe there were four thousand in Blackburn :cool wink



Blackburn Hall ??  :shock:   Never 'erd of it Guv .......................

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I read the news today, oh boyFour thousand holes in Blackburn, LancashireAnd though the holes were rather smallThey had to count them allNow they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall  *  

Sideways, upright, upside down???  I think I've lost count and I'm only a quarter of the way along.  50 done, 150 to do.  I believe there's not a lot else happening tomorrow! 
:mutley

* A Day In The Life - The Beatles.  For those who may not get the reference.  

Last edited on Tue Jun 16th, 2020 09:00 pm by Gwiwer

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Are you not back at work yet Rick ?

I admire your tenacity - I'd have cut the legs off to suit the terrain and glued it all down ............................ :oops:

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That method would not give enough rigidity.

It’s not time to work. I am on summer leave from the day job and it’s warm enough to rest my weary hands outside with a glass of Talisker

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Sorry to hear your hands are weary Rick - I'll pop over and help you take the weight of that Talisker ............................ :cheers

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over under side ways down The Yardbirds
(now you all know i am really old)

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The Yardbirds, better when Jeff Beck was with them ;-) ;-) ;-)

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I played guitar with Jeff Beck at a party, once.  It would have been even more memorable if I had realised it was JB at the time..... I don't usually mix in those types of circles! 
Got to say I admire the patience and skill required to make this platform.  It will be superb when it is done.

Michael

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Headmaster wrote: I played guitar with Jeff Beck at a party, once..................................................

Michael

Wow - not many can claim something like that Michael. Was he any good ?  :roll: :lol:

Along the same lines, Liz's nephew is Zac Ware - guitarist with the Proclaimers............ :cheers

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Not bad Peter.... I taught him a trick or two   :mutley :mutley
He wouldn't have drilled hundreds of holes for a model railway platform though...

Michael

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One platform has all its holes bored.  The other is 1/3 done.  One set of posts is now in the process of being painted "concrete" rather than bare metal which I am doing with a mix of white gesso and Woodland Scenics "Earth Undercoat" plus a little very fine sand.  

Once the platform supports are planted I have the intricate task of painting the fence-wires "dirty" which will probably be done with a wash of well-used enamel thinners and a coat of gloss black on the top (brass) rail as per prototype.  


Allowance has to be made for some structures on the platforms.  A basic shelter either side and a footbridge to link them - and give access to the signalbox.  That will be positioned in the empty space between "passenger" and "goods" lines but facing the passenger station.  The platforms will be wider near the mid-point to accommodate the waiting shelters.  Seating will be basic wooden benches in the open.  


I have a workable medium-term "fix" for the problem scissors crossover.  I can remove that entire piece until its electrical problems are resolved by someone competent and replace it with a short length of single-track.  The two passenger lines will merge at a Y-point and immediately diverge across a three-way point to the yard fan.


That arrangement means the station will  in effect become a passing loop on a single line and I can only move one train at a time.  But I can have one arrive and stop, the other arrive and stop then each move off in turn.  Or one arrive and stop and another run through on the other line.  And all controlled from one output which simplifies the electrics more than somewhat.  When the scissors unit has been fixed it will simply drop in and the electrical modifications will revert to what I intended at the outset namely the option to move two trains independently on the passenger lines.  


All this hard work has made me thirsty.  It's time for this  



Last edited on Fri Jun 19th, 2020 10:33 pm by Gwiwer

Petermac
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That's an interesting bottle Rick - limited edition ?  Aged ?

Gwiwer
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It is a limited edition Peter. There seems to be a Game of Thrones tie-up with several distilleries.
 

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Moving right along ..... 
..... it's slowly taking shape.  


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There isn't a lot of space for the SLR on the layout so most pictures until now have come off the iPhone.  But tonight I did get the "proper" camera out and captured a few better quality shots of recent work.  

Headcode 35 isn't specific to anything on this layout; it was applied because I knew it from school days when it identified Brighton - Littlehampton trains.  I have plenty of spare headcode numerals and will probably come up with a suitable SW London area number for use on this line.  

These include a couple of the Up side station building placed on the ground in the position it will occupy on the platform when completed.  This is a Bachmann "Scenecraft" resin item which is yet to be detailed other than having gained its "Waddlemarsh Halt" target name signs.  Those are supplied by Trackside Signs.













Last edited on Sat Jun 20th, 2020 10:51 pm by Gwiwer

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Resting the fingers between drilling holes. Before the platform shelter can be installed it requires weathering. 

1.  As bought plus “target” name signs. 




2.  With mapping pen used to ink in the lines for added depth



3. The ink is rubbed in with a cotton wool bud, cloth or even fingers. 



4.  Weathering powders applied and brushed lightly in. Soot black, blended browns, rust and even a pale green for lichen and moss




Not forgetting the roof ..... 



Also the windows, frames and interior. 



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Wow Rick - that's an improvement.  You've made a very good job of that. :thumbs

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Yes indeed!  It has a lovely "used" appearance now and lovely details.
Michael

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Great idea! Looks good. I like the station signs as well. Where are they from?

Gwiwer
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TeaselBay wrote: I like the station signs as well. Where are they from?Here:-
https://tracksidesigns.co.uk

I have used these before and always been very happy with the products.  

Gwiwer
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On the warmest day of the warmest week of the warmest month of the warmest year so far .....

..... I can record that all of the platform holes have finally been bored out!!!

Both sets of supports are in the process of test fitting which is taking a little longer than I hoped. It has been a tedious and often hot process but apart from a much smaller number of holes to fit the conductor-rail insulators the "boring" part of this build is now complete.

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Ongoing work on the platforms has progressed less quickly than I would have liked.  It has proven to be not very easy locating all the legs into the holes because of the stiffness created by the fence wires.  But in they are slowly going.  Each is checked for height against both the wood-block template and a train and the legs are fixed in the holes with superglue.  

Allowance has to be made for wider platforms where the waiting shelters will be and also for a footbridge linking the two sides.  That bridge will be the good old Hornby R076 kit as it is a close approximation to the metal footbridges used at some prototype locations.  Fishersgate Halt came to mind though there are numerous others.  

Some here will be aware that I received a very large parcel from our good friends in Camborne during the week.  My order for Bachmann's new class 117 and 121 DMU units is here.  I am now the happy owner of three 3-car and three single "bubble" car sets.  One of each in blue/grey, original DMU green and the GW150 chocolate / cream livery which these carried at the time.  Also included was a TPO mailvan with (dummy) collector net, traductor arms and bodyside lights as used when mail was collected and deposited at lineside locations without stopping.  

These all look slightly out of place with a part-built SR concrete halt but they were ordered for an earlier layout; I maintained the order anyway.  The railcars are superb models.  Not cheap but very detailed and with switchable lighting for head / tail / cab / saloon and destination blind lights.  The couplers have been commented upon by several modellers; they are multi-pin rather than hook / loop or the older power-bar style which allows DCC users to control everything with a single decoder.  That is rather over the top for DC users however and will have added to the cost.  They also allow for sound fitting and the 3-car sets have both end cars powered with unobtrusive low-profile units.  In operation they are smooth, fairly quiet and reliable and will work well coupled together.  The centre trailer can be removed to form a power-twin if required.  The green one correctly has no inter-car gangways as these were not fitted until slightly later in their lives.  









Last edited on Sat Jun 27th, 2020 02:15 pm by Gwiwer

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I have the green whiskered 121 bubble car Rick Lovely detailed model but i will point out it is not an easy one to get the body off anyone who is not careful could easily do a lot of damage it takes 5 bits of plasticard each side 10 in total to safely remove the body.

Brian

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Brian that sort of information is well worth knowing. I am one of those who likes to see a driver in the front seat and some passengers aboard though only a couple of my older DMUs have ever been populated.

The new layout is an end-to-end which creates other issues. Does one place a driver in each cab so that it looks realistic in both directions? Does one place tail lamps on rolling stock which should have them? What happens when it all comes back the other way? The sort of conundrum many a modeller has faced and most have not fully overcome. As with many things in this hobby I suspect compromise will be the order of the day.

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Just seen them on Facebook too. They are going to look fantastic against the finished halt. 

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It's not proving as easy as I hoped to seat the platform supports but then which tasks in this hobby ever are?  
 
They are going in.  A fair number have parted at the glued join which isn't a problem but a mild frustration.   Only one has broken beyond repair after being encouraged into its hole with a little too much persuasion :roll:
 
A near-overhead shot shows that both sides are well under way, both have a gap for the footbridge access and a small building.  The piano wire has to have the curve it was supplied with eased out over several days before gluing down which is helped by the placing of the steel rule on top of positioned (but not fixed) supports.  
 
Once I am happy with the general position of the legs I apply superglue to the holes and seat each in turn; they require a few seconds to grab but a minute or so of working time is available allowing a little correction and levelling to take place as required.  
 
Keen eyes might recognise the footbridge as that recovered from Penhayle Bay.  This will not be used on the new layout; it is only a guide here.  To re-use it would probably be a kit-bash too far for plastic which has sat outdoors for over ten years and isn't in great condition.  A new kit has arrived.  The colour scheme will be mid-dark green with black supporting legs and detail.  




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Another day another step forward. Tiny green name signs from Trackside Signs. Tiny etched brass “target” mounting plates were harder to locate than the common “totem” shape but were found at Shire Scenes via Dart Castings. 

Last edited on Thu Jul 9th, 2020 08:40 pm by Gwiwer


                 

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