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Waddlemarsh - Members Personal Layouts. - Model Railway Layouts. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Fri Sep 7th, 2018 08:40 pm
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Gwiwer
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More sections of track have been powered up and used. Some of the track is still not pinned down as I need to fully wire up and complete a full electrical test before going past the point of no return. It would be frustrating, to say the least, if I had everything nicely fixed and then discovered a short or a dead spot.

A little more rolling stock has also arrived. I always promised myself when Hornby first released their Brighton Belle units that if they ever did one in 1960s livery (Pullman but with a small yellow panel) I would have one. They have, and I now own a 5-car unit which has run up an down no more than its own length so far but looks the business and so far as I can tell is correct in all the important details.

No photos yet but hopefully through the weekend when I also intend to have at least the first section of backscene fitted up.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 8th, 2018 06:51 am
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jimmy styles
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3way points and crossovers 🤪 your brave I hate wiring them but once done right they are awesome. Great progress mate

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 Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2018 04:45 pm
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Gwiwer
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A track-laying session this afternoon has resulted in progress. All five curves are now in place and are as good as it’s going to get in a tight space. 

Getting five lines around a right-angle took a little ingenuity in terms of spacing and what connected to where but the effect is, I think, adequate. 

The two outer tracks will ultimately be concealed behind the backscene.  The 4TC occupies the Up and the 5Bel the Down passenger lines which to the right will serve Waddlemarsh Halt and to the left continue to reach the pair of concealed sidings. Rather than occupy space with a crossover here the line singles briefly making use of double-curve points. 

Metropolitan electric loco no.12  “Sarah Siddons” and the GWR Siphon G vans are on the connection between passenger line and goods yard. This is only connected to the Down passenger line but Up trains will be able to leave and cross over at the London end of the halt. 

Eastern Region diesels of classes 16 and 20 are on the freight line. This will pass in front of the halt on its own alignment meaning freight has the option to use this or the passenger lines. 

Finally the duty shunting engine fusses with wagons on the inner curve which leads to the shunting neck (right) and the goods shed and siding (left).

The controller is placed where I intend it to go but it may be possible to fit it below rather than on the baseboard. 







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 Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2018 06:31 pm
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Danielb
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Looks to be a nice, compact, operationally interesting layout.

Nice one. :)

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 Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2018 08:42 pm
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Gwiwer
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It certainly has to be compact!  It is interwoven with the furniture in what is bedroom, office, library and workroom.  It took most of a year before I had figured out exactly how it was even going to fit in.  Factor in the minor detail of it being a rental property meaning I cannot fix anything to the walls or change the floor covering (which is loop-pile carpet) and it also has to be self-supporting and level enough to allow smooth operation.



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 Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2018 04:34 pm
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Gwiwer
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Well chaps it has been a while.  Progress has been one step forward and the other step back.  It might be time to seek a new hobby.
Issues I am currently trying to resolve are:-
Not all the rolling stock is happy with the curve radii;
Not all the rolling stock, none of which has pizza-cutters fitted, is happy traversing perfectly brand new points;
Apparently random areas of the layout will run when power is applied but large areas do not;
Fixing one short introduces another;
The points are of various batches and seem to require wiring differently but I am not sure why or how;
Until I can get the full layout correctly powered I cannot move on to ballasting and scenic work.

Here's the track plan.  It might have been easier had I drawn this using two lines, one for each rail, but I didn't.  To my mind using DC and electrofrog points I need to supply power to the toe-end of each point.  As the points have frog-switching and bonded blades the frog wires are clipped to avoid shorts.

Yet shorts there are a-plenty and no-power areas.  And for the life of me I cannot work out why a point which has the frog wires removed and is bonded and switched as per Peco's wiring diagram is still shorting ....

If I had hair it would have been torn out.  I have just spent yet another afternoon achieving negative progress and am about ready to say a very rude word indeed.




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 Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2018 04:55 pm
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John Dew
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Hi Rick

I have been following on RMWeb and I hoped your shorting problems had been solved by clipping the connecting wires to the frog.........is this not the case?

It would help if you could add to the track diagram a symbol to show all the insulated rail joiners like this              II

Then add arrows or triangles on each side of the track showing each power feed. Fill in the triangles for positive and leave triangles for common empty.

If it is possible to isolate say Track A it will be easiest to start with a diagram of that and get that running

Slow steady testing and by a process of elimination we will get it sorted.

I imagine Max and Ron will be along shortly

Best wishes

John




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 Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2018 05:26 pm
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Gwiwer
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Hello John,
Sadly the shorting problems, which Ian Morton is also weighing in on for me, are not entirely related to the frog wires.  I found a couple of points with unclipped wires and removed them which resulted in some routes then having power which did not before.  But having restored those points I now find I have shorts in other places!  

As and when I get  a chance I can hopefully present a better track plan.  There are some IRJs already in use and I may need more - or indeed less - and all points have current fed at the toe.



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 Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2018 06:24 pm
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Briperran
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Sorry to hear your having shorting problems Rick.

No easy answer when you get that condition, if the track is not pinned properly is it not possible to isolate sections of track to tie down which area at least is causing the problem.
Insulated rail joiners can help greatly in electrically dividing up the layout into sections which may help you.

Brian



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 Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2018 12:06 am
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John Dew
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Rick

I have sent you a pm

Cheers

John



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 Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2018 04:25 pm
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BCDR
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Hi Rick,


Looks interesting. One observation I can offer is that a brand new 3-way electrofrog in code 100 needed the frogs and blades "adjusting". Close inspection at x10 showed why. The frogs were not in line with the closure rails, pizza cutters under gauge bounced through fine as the guard rail did it's job and the tread missed the end of the frog, RP-25 wheels to gauge not so. The point blades were also a tad too long and not sitting against the rail. It is worthwhile going over them with a magnifying glass. Peco  live frogs by their design have to be spot on, these were not.The long side if the frogs was too long, that ensured they were not in line.

If stock is derailing on those curves check the BTB and whether the bogies and wheels are limited in their swing. Many are. Some judicious filing is often called for.

I avoid DC, but going over the track with a multimeter and checking that gaps are actually insulated (resistance mode) and that there is  continuity  (idem) where it should be is often illuminating. 
 

Nigel




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 Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2018 08:25 pm
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Gwiwer
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Gents

Thanks for your comments and messages.  All of which will be taken on board and some fresh thinking will be applied next time I have an hour or two for the layout.



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 Posted: Tue May 7th, 2019 05:32 pm
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Gwiwer
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Gents (and all others present).

It has been a very long time since I visited. In that time the layout has largely sat gathering dust and sometimes having the dust removed. The electrical issues which defy my understanding simply refuse to go away no matter what I do.

There are other things now in play. We both had a troublesome winter health-wise and at one time were both laid up together which wasn't fun. Thank goodness for supermarkets who deliver and online ordering of almost anything.

I recovered slowly through Spring and am more or less back on my feet now. The Good Lady has developed some mental health issues which have set her back many times as she tries to progress her career, studies and personal life. She also has some ongoing medical problems which are driving her anxiety and not helping her random panic attacks. It is a combination of all those things which have led to her asking that I not be away from her side except during working hours in case of need. That is a whole new ball-game for which we don't know the rules. She is receiving professional support and has a list of appointments with various people coming up. Things seem to be improving very slowly day by day but can be set back without any warning for no apparent reason.

The layout has been he last thing on my mind and has received very little in the way of attention until now.

This week is the first of two comprising my Summer leave (!!) and with her requirements in mind my planned travels have largely been cancelled. Instead I have addressed the matter of why the layout shorts every time I power up no matter what I do. I simply don't understand how it can short, for example, with a power feed to a dead end and nothing else on the line. But undercoating of the baseboards has commenced and there remains a will to fix up the why and wherefore of the electrics. I should be simple enough. My problem is that I don't know why it isn't working.

On the positive side I have been able to attend the opening of Kernow MRC's new Guildford branch and came away with a decent haul of goodies. I also have five days-worth of weathering demonstrations booked in the next two months and have therefore invested in mew rolling stock (which I really don't need) in order to have sufficient to demonstrate with. Some may later be sold on.

I could put up a picture here but there's really nothing more to see. When there is I'll be busy with the camera as I once was before.

See you about. Keep smiling.



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 Posted: Tue May 7th, 2019 08:28 pm
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Barry Miltenburg
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Hi Rick

Glad to see that you are back modelling.  I too went to Kernow and was mightily impressed - my bank manager less so!!

I'm no expert (despite comments elsewhere) but I too run DC so happy to offer any advice on the shorts when you get back to them.  I notice Peco point motors so my first check might be that the frog switching is correct (are you using the motor-mounted switches?).  Also, I have had issues where I cut the blade-frog rail connections only to find that they were still making a connection!!

Kind regards

Barry

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 Posted: Wed May 8th, 2019 08:27 am
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Petermac
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It seems you're having a rough time of things Rick - I hope things soon improve for you.  Mental health problems are something most of us can't even begin to understand but I can imagine that, being so far from "home", will not be helping Sharon.  At least she's getting some professional help.

Regarding your weathering demonstrations, have you thought of doing "commissions" at them.  Constantly buying stock just to do the demos will quickly drain your coffers and selling on, whilst recouping some of your outlay, might still involve a "loss" on the original purchase..  You could try, on here for example, to offer a service whereby, for the price of the stock, plus a very small additional fee, you'd weather for other people.  I'm thinking maybe, "they" could fund the stock pre-demo, you weather it at a demo and post it on afterwards.  Yes, "they'd" have to wait a few days or so for delivery, but it would be weathered at minimal cost and you'd have a guaranteed no-loss sale plus your supply of stock to use .............................  Just a thought. :hmm



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 Posted: Wed May 8th, 2019 08:32 am
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Hello,
As a fellow metal health sufferer i feel for your wife. The panic attacks of which i have had many over the last 40 years, were then and still now a frightening experience. You would not think that your own body would turn on you in this way and inflict such pain. I wish her well and hope the journey to health will be a short one. No advice about the electrics I'm affraid its all a black art to me. Chin up.
Stephen



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 Posted: Wed May 8th, 2019 09:36 pm
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How on earth do you and Sharon climb up onto that bed mate.



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 Posted: Wed May 8th, 2019 10:08 pm
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Gwiwer
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Many thanks for the support in all its forms.  It is much appreciated.
Barry - I am using frog switching and all is correct.  Everything wired according to the instructions and mostly working as it should.  

Petermac - I do sometimes take ad hoc commissions at events though not considering myself a professional have been a little reluctant to do so.  The feedback I have always had regarding my weathering has been good (or sometimes better) and if I had anywhere I could use as a workbench I could make more progress.  As it is I am limited by having to work outdoors (nothing new there - except the weather!) because I cannot risk spilling weathering powder or paint onto a pale carpet in a rented flat and in such light as is available.  The next event is at Hayle MRC Exhibition (confirmed verbally at this stage so fingers crossed) over the late May long weekend.  With a certain retailer based not five miles up the road from there I should have no difficulty sourcing stock.  Whether I could sell it is another matter.  Not many of Cornwall's finest pop into a local show willing to part with £40 or more for a coach, £20 for a small wagon or close to £200 for a locomotive.

GreenBR - thanks it is always good to know you are not alone.  We have some support and things are turning around but this could be a long road.

Aussietrains - we don't.  That bed is mine.  I might be 62 next week but I'm still pretty fit and athletic so up and down a ladder isn't an issue for me.  We don't share, and haven't done so for some years, purely by choice though it began when I was seriously ill in Australia and needed a lot of quiet rest following some treatment.  I also work shifts so having my own bed means not waking the other half at some very unsocial hours indeed.

And now the good news.  Today I removed everything from the layout and started checking methodically from joint to joint, point to point to see what was amiss.  The mysterious short where I have a power feed at the toe of a point but the other end is a dead-end has had me stumped for ages.  Nothing seemed to fix it and no-one could explain it.  Mid-morning today I fixed it!!!  I am using Peco pre-wired joiners for power supply in most places and have a pair of them placed between two points feeding both toes.  Quite by chance a loco bridged the join while under power and stopped. I checked the joint and one of the joiners was not supplying current.  I don't know why.  It was a sung fit and not damaged but might possibly have a broken wire in the sheathing.  So after many months of frustration and blue air I replaced that small piece and GUESS WHAT - IT WORKS!!!!!

I also traced another short to a back-feed between two points so inserting an IRJ in one ral between those has fixed that problem as well.  I learned too that I only need one IRJ not a pair when creating isolated sections of track in sidings, though I still need them on both rails to ensure crossovers don't short out.  So I have been trying to wire and switch in a more complex manner than is necessary.  

I have some push-to-make switches ready wired which I used to test the isolation in the sidings.  This will work better with on-off switches but I don't have many right now and none are wired.  But I was able to prove that of all the track currently laid everything (subject to a final-fix wiring of the double-slip and adding the required switches) actually does work.  There is more to do at the other end of the layout but lessons learned will be applied there and hopefully make things easier.

So ..... I can move on to final-fix wiring and final pin-down of the track much of which is unpinned to allow for the language, frustration and repeated changes I have been making.  

Progress is being made.  






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 Posted: Wed May 8th, 2019 10:49 pm
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Hi Rick,

I'm sorry to hear that life has been difficult with you and your partner and sincerely hope that things may improve and give you more happy times to enjoy.

Good news with your methodical approach in finding and fixing the fault and getting trains running again. You sound like a much happier modeller, which brings smiles to us all.

Well done and sincere best wishes for happier times ahead.

Very best regards,

Bill





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 Posted: Thu May 9th, 2019 09:47 am
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Barry Miltenburg
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:patheadWell done Rick. Electrics - tick. Final plan - tick. Track fixed - tick. 
Onwards and upwards!! :pathead

Barry

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