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Twobolt
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 OK, I`m going to build a riveted tank version based on a 1930`s batch built by Kerr,Stuart and Co numbered 7700-7724 that were vacuum brake fitted so can be used on passenger duties. ( those numbered 6700-6724 built at W G Bagnall were not vacuum fitted and were for shunting only).


This above is what I`m aiming for...........................................................................................................

The kit is very well designed and has been around for some time (until recently with the sudden demise of JTLRT)
Yes I know there are 7mm RTR versions on the market from Minerva and Dapol, but I have a strong preference for
handbuilt versions with my own choices of compromises rather than theirs.

The kit relies on very good diagramatical instructions with next to no written description, so not for the absolute novice.

As always I choose to build a reliable working chassis mechanism first.......   I am and always have been a follower of sprung hornblocks for all locomotive chassis ever since my 4mm P4 modelling days as this method provides the best way of maintaining electrical pickup from track to wheels and I believe adds to the smoothness and realism of locomotive performance, particularly as I am a strong convert to DCC Sound where good electrical conductivity is paramount.

Whilst researching other modellers effortswith this particular kit, I noted the accuracy of the nickel silver chassis side frames when using the lost-wax cast hornguides and bearings supplied with the kit. However, despite other modellers sucesses, Ifound the hornguides and bearings in my kit had far too much slop in both the axle bearing and the bearing and hornguide..........



So,as a first, I substituted the lot for a set of sprung hornblocks from Slaters as minimising axle slop fore and aft is essential for preventing wheel/coupling rod binding in the longer term. The last thing I want is to have to  dismantle a chassis and start again.



As you can see, Slaters hornguides and bearings are a more accurate offering with absolute minimal fettling required.

There is an added bonus of a cast in axle centering guide on each hornguide which can be lined up with your chosen scribed axle centre line on the chassis side frames..........



So, armed with a better quality set of hornguides, the next task is to mark up the chassis side frames in order to cut out the hornguide slots and position the whereabouts of the axle centre line.



Now...... this is where a better kit is helpfull in providing etched in `dimples` for both the brake hangers and axle centre lines.
It is important when using replacement hornblocks that they fit into the kit`s etched axle positions to avoid problems further on when the wheel splashers are fitted.

Having done all that, I carefully drilled the coupling rod etches to take Slaters crankpins and also  drilled the holes to take Slaters sprung pickups.

Now..............



......................annoyingly there is a plastic pyramid `tie` that encroaches into the wheel rim which if ignored can cause a break in electrical pickup on every wheel, so to avoid this I made sure that the pickup plunger hole is in such a position to avoid contact with this plastic pyramid.......

Cutting out the hornblock positions was simple enough using a slitting disc.......



The kit comes with a lost wax detailing upgrade pack so I removed the etched spring hangers to be replaced with lost wax parts.



The end result is a strong chassis sub-frame using the fold up spacers provided that are an accurate slot and tab assembly. I particularly like the etched riveted overlays.

Next is to turn the etched coupling rod overlays into working centr hinged coupling rods........



Then.... its over to an old favourite,simple and reliable method of setting up the hornblocks using the coupling rods as jigs........



......obviously the springs are used to hold the hornblocks hard up against the sideframes prior to soldering onto their final positions , making sure the axles are at right angles to the frames.



....the end result is a very free running assembly every time...............................

Longchap
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Hello John and what a marvellous subject for your very last kit build, probably. In mine and many others modelers’ minds, the iconic pannier tank is the defining GW locomotive.  
 
You’ve made a cracking start with those Slaters' hornblock assemblies and the rolling chassis looks as good as it so obviously moves.
 
Crack on!
 
Best,
 
Bill

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Thanks Bill,
not `probably` but definitely as the eyesight has got to be looked after. I agree about the iconic GWR Pannier and she will go with my completed GWR Castle and GWR Autotank.

Cheers
John

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Wonderful workmanship. I bet she will look fantastic when you have finished.

How long will she take to build?

Twobolt
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By the look of things there is very little fettling of parts to do, so I hope to have her built in three weeks, then a couple of weeks to paint her( weather permitting of course).....so completely finished by middle of June at the latest.
John

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The next part needs to be the footplate and superstructure.

The etched footplate is soldered onto a very cleverly designed footplate sub unit to keep everything square as you proceed.



There is some pre etched rivets to be formed on the reverse of the footplate overlay.



All my GWR locos have lost wax lamp irons so the next move was to carefully remove the fold up etched ones and replace them with the lost wax versions supplied with the kit.



To my eye these look a lot more realistic.................................................................................................................



The cab and bunker is made from three fold up sub-units onto which has to be sweated some detailed overlays.





My 80watt iron was not up to the job so I used a flame heat source which was much easier.




There are some lost wax parts that also need to be soldered to the sub units before final assembly.



And then comes the already notorious making of the JLTRT Pannier tank bunker !!!  the two bunker corner castings bottom right above are not quite the right size to fit well on the bunker corners and the quality of the castings on mine were not brilliant.

First up is shaping the bunker overlays.............................................

Then attaching them to the bunker sub unit...... much finger burning and singing happy songs not!!!



finally .... this is the best I could do at soldering it all together.....................................................











Gordon Curtis
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It's looking very, very good indeed. Super build, and well photographed and documented too.
I'm in the process of restoring a Gaiety JVM 5700 family heirloom, so it's interesting to see what one 'should' look like! 

Keep up the good work,

Gordon

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Hi John,

The bigger it gets the more it seems like brazing. It's how the Koreans did it - tin the parts, clamp together and out with the hand pumped torch. I think I would be tempted to get a big resistance soldering unit.

Looking good though, toasted pinkies excepted.

Nigel

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Things have been slowly progressing, but were held up by picking up the soldering iron at the wrong end....................................






There were a few  things to modify as I went along, but the chassis matched up rather well to the footplate





My preferred method with handrails is to build in two halves






............... and join with solder at the front handrail knob..............................................






I also prefer to complete all of the chassis structure and make wheels removable for painting etc








Beginning to look like a pannier tank engine












I`ve built the whole project in  three parts to help with painting





The cab backplate I modelled on the preserved No 7714
























Last edited on Sun Jun 10th, 2018 01:39 pm by Twobolt

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Ouch !  not good John., hope it heals quickly.  Progress on the loco looks great, well done.

BCDR
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Hi John,

Is the blue blob already done?

Nigel

Twobolt
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Hi Nigel
Yes the blue resin moulding is part of the kit and just needs drilling and tapping to fit on the footplate and details added to it.



Which is fine and helpfull unless like me you want to fit a speaker and decoder.........

I had to resort to fitting them all between the frames..........................................






Cheers 

John

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Hi Rob,

Not "just like the real thing" then. Was this ever designed for DCC sound? And here I was thinking you would have room for a decent bass/crossover/tweeter with steam sound coming out the front end and whistles out of the cab area. What about the bunker for the decoder? (And even the speaker). Or even drilling/milling out some space in the boiler/side tanks for the decoder? I gather you are not doing valve gear with the decoder positioned there.

Nigel

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I think the kit was designed as an easy build for someone new to the scale and not having to bend flat brass into the pannier shape.I did`nt find it a particularly easy kit as there are thick gauge laminations to solder together, never an easy task.
And the bunker cast corners are a difficult pig!!!

I knew from others that the bunker has little suitable space for a decoder, but possibly a speaker : but then you`ve got the bother of having to drill through thick gauge material on the footplate and again through the rear chassis spacer to feed the wiring through....... nah!!!.

I made the right decision for me to have all the DCC stuff between the frames......

...................... and when all is painted black ( a Zimo decoder has a thick protective cover) it`s not noticeable at normal viewing distance.

I`ve never been impressed with inside valve gear ( unless you make locos for the display cabinet) as on a working layout at  normal viewing distance you can`t see it anyway. I prefer working models that are easy to service and maintain. It`s a lot of extra work for little reward and over half of locos that I have seen modelled with it run badly  as a result of it.......to my eye.....

Overall I like the look of the finished kit and is good value for money for what is included ( £255) less wheels and motor of course). But it is`nt as good as an MOK kit.

Wait till you hear Digitrains Pannier tank sound !!!!

Cheers

John

Last edited on Wed Jun 13th, 2018 08:52 pm by Twobolt

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Hi Rob,

Those curves are tough to do, anytime I have done one (in HO or 4mm) I have two different models, depending on which side you looking at.

Interesting approach though. It must help with the mass. Your comment on the thickness of metal and the less than perfect fit of the bunker bits was interesting. The thicker the metal the more difficult it is to get precise etching. Easier to cast in resin or decent white metal.

The model is really starting to look the business.

Nigel

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Great work Rob  John

its coming together nicely

Last edited on Mon Jun 25th, 2018 03:51 am by gdaysydney

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Not sure how I got to be a Bob...............................................
However, just a brief update as No 7714 is virtually out of the main paint shop............................

..............still a few details to add to the superstructure and then the fully detailed cab and roof...........

so, will be finally finished at the end of this week.......................................................................................

Not a Bob John

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Hi John,

Not sure how Bob came into the picture. Mind you, I'm sure he would appreciate the work you have done.

Nigel

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It's always a pleasure watching a skilled modeller at work John (or Bob/Rob if you prefer) and this build is no exception.  Wonderful modelling from start to finish and, the beauty is, not only will you remember this model as your last but you'll have blisters to remind you too - I'll bet that hurt !!!!

I know I have neither the skill nor the patience to undertake such a task so I am in absolute awe.  The end product is magnificent and the "write-up" equally superb - very well done Sir !!!

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Your paint shop does great work John. That's a finish I hope my body shop can get close too with a bit more practise.

Best,

Bill

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Thanks for all the kind comments...................................................
....................... well she`s dunndidd !! ............................................

Number plates arrived from Severnmill last Friday and she rolled out in all her finery today.....................







She has a slight `waddling` gait on the track which has been apparent right from when the wheels were fitted........

....the waddle is much more pronounced on the rolling road and I think I have some rogue Slaters


 drivers.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoG48OVyTqM&t=3s


Cheers

John



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Never thought I'd ever say it anout a pannier John, but that's a great looking, and sounding, locomotive. 

Joking aside, I always did like the pannier - a "proper" work horse and you must be delighted with yours - I know I would be.

You probably said earler when I wasn't paying attention but whose sound chip is it ?

I do wonder what causes the waddle - it's not a rare problem, even in RTR "OO" Gauge locos.  Do you think it is something assimple as rogue wheels ?

Twobolt
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Thanks Petermac,
The decoder is a Zimo MX645 with Digitrains Pannier file ( Paul Chetter).

Yes I do think it is Slaters wheels issue perhaps made worse using sprung hornblocks and cheap roller bearing units.

You can see it here on my Slaters tank engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQHoHH54Q98&t=172s


and again here...........................................................................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKDhjjuvWNc&t=66s

John

Last edited on Sun Jul 1st, 2018 06:24 pm by Twobolt

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Ah yes, Paul Chetter's sound file on a Zimo decoder - beautiful !!  He did the same for me in "OO" Gauge - and fitted a stay-alive.  One of my favourite sound locos and I don't even model GW ....................... :roll: :roll: :???:

I see what you mean about those wheels - they create quite a wobble.  Is it because they're not round or is the hub offset ?

Sorry - had to do this post in 2 attempts - we're having a fairly decent electric storm at the moment.  The wind/rain and thunder would make a good film soundtrack to say nothing of the air being as hot and heavy as can be .................I feel as if I'm leaking !!!  :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Beautiful job, John.


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Petermac wrote: Ah yes, Paul Chetter's sound file on a Zimo decoder - beautiful !!  He did the same for me in "OO" Gauge - and fitted a stay-alive.  One of my favourite sound locos and I don't even model GW ....................... :roll: :roll: :???:

I see what you mean about those wheels - they create quite a wobble.  Is it because they're not round or is the hub offset ?

Sorry - had to do this post in 2 attempts - we're having a fairly decent electric storm at the moment.  The wind/rain and thunder would make a good film soundtrack to say nothing of the air being as hot and heavy as can be .................I feel as if I'm leaking !!!  :lol: :lol: :lol:
The GWR magic gets to us after a while Peter. Resistance is futile, so just embrace it. We know you want to ! :cool:

7714 is a joy John and I'm sure you'll get her running to suit your railway pretty soon, so I'll just add my congratulations for a magnificent, as well as a speedy loco build.

Best,

Bill

PS. Like Peter, we're also melting in the Loire and railway modelling simply isn't possibe, but thank heavens for the pool as well as the maker's wonderful railway. Stay as cool as you can all :cool:


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Thanks Bill
After a sweltering week for my embryonic garden shed layout and rail warping issues !!!  (Kindly picture me operating in comfort just in underpants )  :???:   :shock:   :sad:

Thankfully she performs just as I would like and not a waddle in sight...........................   :chicken


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L766F41ULK0&t=3s


Cheers for now

John


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That's excellent John.  :thumbs

I love to see them creeping over the points without so much as a stutter.  Did you fit a stay-alive or is it just the result of well laid track ?  The slip is particularly impressive.  I had 3 of them (Peco) in a row on Maxmill - 1 older type and 2 of the later design.  Without the stay-alive, almost nothing would pass over the older type without some speed.  The newer type were much better performers.  Add the stay-alive and you could cross them so slowly, I had time for a cuppa .....................

As I said before, the sound file is very, very good.

Twobolt
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Thanks again Peterm,
I don`t have any use for stay alive`s as I have complete success with......................

Live Frogs
Sprung Loco axles
Quality loco electrical pickups
Plenty of track wiring droppers
Quality motors/gearboxes
Clean wheels
Clean track
Graphite sticks as backup

John

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Twobolt wrote: Thanks again Peterm,
I don`t have any use for stay alive`s as I have complete success with......................

Live Frogs                                                            Tick
Sprung Loco axles                                                  :oops:
Quality loco electrical pickups                                 :oops: (As supplied by the manufacturer)
Plenty of track wiring droppers                             Tick
Quality motors/gearboxes                                    See # 3 above
Clean wheels                                                        From time to time ............... :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Clean track                                                           As above............................... :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Graphite sticks as backup                                    Ah - must try that ............. :thumbs  Where do you buy your graphite ?

John

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Hi John,

Always worth while checking the run out with a micrometer. If it's the rims it's sometimes fixable, if the hub/axle is eccentric (usually the case) probably not (unless you fancy drilling out to center and turning new axles, adjusting the hornblocks...).

Superb looking model with a prototypical wobble.

Nigel

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My Graphite sticks were found on Amazon..........................
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41gqkRMqu5L.jpg

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Looks Fantastic John, love the riveted tanks.

Regards Connor

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Hi John,

Just checked the video again, how much does that resin body weigh? I think you may need some more mass lower down (or less above). Looks like a top heavy rolling gait on under-strength springing. Had this with a brass Pacific with a lump of lead in the boiler and expired springs. The clue could be that the waddle comes on at a certain number of revolutions. Which I believe was the case with the prototype (full tanks and worn springs).

Nigel

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Hi Nigel
That makes brilliant sense !!     :roll:

The resin body is solid and surprisingly heavy and she is  a heavy model for her size. There is no more space for weight anywhere.

............... but the springs supplied are on the weak side...so I could replace.......

She`s off to The Borders Club test track next week and If the waddle is too noticeable I will try stronger springs from Slaters.

Thanks for that assessment....................................

John

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Hi John    Terrific , Job well done, you must have the patience of a saint, keep up the good work. Kevin


                 

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