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Need advice on 6-wheel milk van I'm scratchbuilding - Scratchbuilding. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2018 07:10 pm
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ZeldaTheSwordsman
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As work progresses on the chassis of my scratchbuilt milk van, the need to settle a design question grows more urgent. Will having blind wheels on the center axle be sufficient to ensure smooth running? Or should I also compensate the center axle?



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 Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2018 02:25 am
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jcm@gwr
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Hi Brendan,
I guess it all depends how fussy/accurate you want to be!
If you are going to all the trouble of scratchbuilding this wagon,
will you be happy in the long term with a compromised centre
axle/wheelset?
There are some very good brass etched, compensated under-
frames available, based on the Clemlinson principle.
May I suggest you check out this link-

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76210-hornby-palethorpes-6-wheel-vans/?hl=clemlinson#entry1160983

Good luck



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 Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2018 03:08 am
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ZeldaTheSwordsman
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jcm@gwr wrote: Hi Brendan,
I guess it all depends how fussy/accurate you want to be!
If you are going to all the trouble of scratchbuilding this wagon,
will you be happy in the long term with a compromised centre
axle/wheelset?
There are some very good brass etched, compensated under-
frames available, based on the Clemlinson principle.
May I suggest you check out this link-

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76210-hornby-palethorpes-6-wheel-vans/?hl=clemlinson#entry1160983

Good luck
I don't have a lot of spare money to import wagons & coaches or their underframes (especially not in the numbers I want) while also buying locos and such. That's my main reason for going to the trouble of scratchbuilding, it's a more budget-friendly way to grow my fleet. It's also fun and satisfying, even if it can be time-consuming.

As I said in the original post, my concern here is smooth running. As in, will blind wheels suffice to make sure the van can go 'round 18" radius (and potentially tighter) curves without derailing? Or will I need to compensate the axle? I don't have that much experience with 6-wheel rolling stock, I haven't run the two pieces I have all that often.



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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2018 02:27 am
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jcm@gwr
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Fair enough, but did you follow the link(s)?
I think/hope the pictures might give you some ideas to scratch the chassis yourself.

With respect to using 'blind' centre wheels, they don't (IMHO) look that good, plus,
depending on the wheelbase, the outer wheels might not be in line with the track.

That is one of the biggest advantages of using a 6-wheeled chassis the centre set
can slide side-to-side, and with a length of springy brass wire connected to the
outer sets (which can pivot/rock) makes an arc which matches the radius of the
track they are on.

Will you be happy with a lot of 6-wheelers, that don't run to well, even de-rail,
or a few that are really good, with no problems.
If you really want smooth running, don't cut too many corners!



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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2018 02:58 am
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ZeldaTheSwordsman
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I already have ideas on how to scratchbuild the chassis myself, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten as far as what you see in the picture I provided. I even know how to set up a sliding middle axle if necessary. What I needed was to hear people weigh in on whether flangeless center wheels were enough, or if I should go with a sliding center axle on top of that, or if it didn't actually make a difference which I did so long as I did one or the other.

I did follow the link, but I initially thought you were suggesting I just buy an underframe like the one pictured because you linked to that specific post.

Having now read that linked thread in its entirety it seems like a toss-up between sliding/rocking axle, blind wheels, and purely-decorative wheels as far as performance goes. All work just as well (though of course the ones where the wheels actually roll look better). Also according to that thread, it seems like getting particularly fancy with how the axles move is actually more likely to cause derailments than prevent them.



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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2018 03:18 am
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Sol
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To be honest, I would go with the centre set of wheels with the flange removed at the bottom and glue the axle so it doesn't turn.



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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2018 05:15 am
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ZeldaTheSwordsman
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Thank you for the input, Sol



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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2018 05:03 pm
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BCDR
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Hi Brendan,

Six wheel tenders go around 18" curves without issues, there is usually more slop in the center wheels than at the ends. Under-gauge the wheels a tad so there is a bit more lateral movement. Older wheels with broader tread help as well. That is usually sufficient for going around corners. I would keep the wheel rims, but make the bearing a bit deeper and wider using a small conical drill bit. Cheap compensation. Hornby or Bachmann had (have?) an interesting system where the wheels had split and hollow axles sliding on a steel rod. I remember this because I was using under track magnets and the tender would jerk as it crossed over. What diameter wheel are you using?

Nigel



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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2018 05:34 pm
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ZeldaTheSwordsman
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Been using HO scale 33" wheels just like I did on that fish van I made a while back, because I was able to get an immense bunch of them for cheap. The way my bearings are done (you can see them in the picture in the 1st post) making them deeper and wider could be a bit more finicky. It'd be a partial rebuild rather than a drill job.
What I had in mind for a compensated axle was one without points, suspended in a box that gave it room to slide sideways. Easy enough to make I'd think.



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 Posted: Sat Apr 21st, 2018 07:52 am
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BCDR
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OK, forget adjusting the gauge. Almost impossible with most HO wheels, Rebox excepted. I thought you were using real OO wheels. 33" in H0 is 28" in OO.

Nigel



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 Posted: Sun Apr 22nd, 2018 02:21 am
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ZeldaTheSwordsman
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Isn't adjusting the gauge more dependant on whether the wheels are molded onto the axle or separate pieces? And yeah, real OO wheels are a bit harder to come by stateside.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2018 04:29 pm
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BCDR
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Hi Brendan,

Hence my comment 're Rebox.

OO wheels can be ordered directly from the UK, or check out Model Rail Imports in Canada. How many do you need? I have quite a few left over from different projects.

Nigel



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