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Track power connections across baseboard modules - Layout Design, Trackwork & Operation. - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2018 03:42 pm
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Passed Driver
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Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. Funny thing that, your reply seems to have cured the forwarding problem?Your idea is excellent, but, I have already purchased and wired up the connections. I began the end of track copper clad today, and then I read how long I should be expected to wait for the Araldite to set, “ waiting for glue to dry again”
Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2018 05:43 pm
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:off topic

Hijacked Paul's thread yet again  :sad:



Ed



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 Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2018 05:57 pm
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Hi Paul,
My apologies. Offending posts deleted.

Nigel



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 Posted: Mon Jan 7th, 2019 09:17 pm
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Hi guys ...quick update and a snag encountered - having acquired the DB15 breakout terminals and all wiring complete with power flow tested over Christmas, the DB15 (DA15 Game port) cables shown in the linked posting below ... 

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=15440&forum_id=6&page=2#p282280
.. are causing me issues as the shortest cable lengths I could acquire were 1 metre lengths. These breakout terminals and cables are being used to connect the point wiring (and CDU feed) across 2 4 foot layout modules but as I'm using 16/02 wiring for all the point wiring runs and with these 1 metre length DB15 cables, I'm afraid i'm losing voltage to drive the 5 individual points on the connecting module - the other module that hosts the CDU works perfectly for 3 individual points on that module. 
To test connectivity, I have bypassed the DB15 breakout terminals and DB15 cables temporarily by connecting one of the point feeds and CDU feed directly across the modules using choc blocks and hey presto, power voltage more than adequate to drive the point.

So .. I'd rather not waste the DB15 breakout terminals so perhaps I'll try and cut / shut the DB15 cable to make it much shorter (which not looking like an easy option) or bite the bullet and ditch the DB15 idea completely and install more connecting choc blocks .... best laid plans :-(    

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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 12:11 pm
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As suspected I cannot trim down these cables as it would be far too messy ... and after further testing the small core wiring in these DB15 cables seems not to be able to push through enough voltage from the CDU to trigger the points, based on 16/02 wiring either side of the cables on each module. If all the wiring for the points was 24/02 then it would work (confirmed ... as I have 24/02 feeding all power supplies and switches and connected across the modules using the same DB15 small core cables)
I've ordered some DB15 socket / plug connectors from Railway Scenics and will solder in my own 16/02 wire to make a short cable ... which I am hopeful will do the trick.

If this fails (which I cannot see why it would) then my last option is connecting choc blocks .. will keep you posted.

In the meantime the second control panel is now being wired up ... photos of everything so far to follow.

Paul

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 Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2019 03:27 pm
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I'm very, very late in on this one Paul but, on speed-reading it through, you seem to be investing quite a bit of cash in the board to board connectors.

I haven't totted it up but wonder if it might have been a better option to have each board free standing - i.e. independently wired from it's neighbour and each with it's own CDU.  That way, you could have used simple banana plugs to power up your main bus wires board to board and have everything on each board wired off those buses ..................... :hmm



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 Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2019 09:13 pm
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HI Paul, 
I am with Peter on this one and if you look back on the thread I suggested RCA plugs and sockets which you can use with heavier wire and they should take a lot of "punishment" over a time.  You will need 8 Jumpers each between modules 1 and 2  and modules 3 and 4  and 4 jumpers between modules 2 and 3.  

An advantage would also be that you could use thicker wire and voltage drop would be a lot less from your two control points.

I can do an illustration but will be away till tomorrow night unless I can sneak in a few minutes tonight  if you feel the need ...  Bus wiring is straight forward because it is straight through connections which in my field we actually called "train lining" but like a lot of wiring work, it is simply slog...

Hope this helps,

Regards

Trevor


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 Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2019 09:44 pm
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Hi Trevor .... I am Paul, not Kevin ... seems you called me this before in this thread for some reason.?
Thank you but no need for an illustration ... I did a reply a few mins ago but the posting failed and I lost my text completely :-( ... I'll write it out again tomorrow.

Also Peter ... the cost of the DB15 connectors and cables were not that expensive ... slow boat from China as I was in no rush :-)

More tomorrow
Paul 

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 Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2019 12:53 am
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Hello Paul

Call it a Senior Moment... I was actually reading a news bit about Kevin Rudd about 2 minutes before I saw your post!!  
Sorry Mate,

Regards

John  Peter  Trevor



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 Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2019 06:06 pm
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Hi again Peter & Trevor, 
For clarity I have been following Trevor's excellent advice on the electrics throughout my build so far and did consider using RCA or banana plugs - but I'm not sure it would have worked out any cheaper or simpler really. As mentioned, the DB15 terminal breakouts & cables came from China and were pretty cheap if not the fastest of delivery. 
To be clear, I have my 24/02 wired power connections for the isolating blocks successfully connected and working with perfect power across (as per Trevors design) so all good there. Where I DO have a problem currently is the point wiring (7 points on the 2 modules I'm connecting currently) which is using 16/02 wiring throughout and each module feeds into the DB15 terminal breakouts which can handle 10 amps - example below


I've testing and looped a couple of these physically with 16/02 wiring from breakout terminal 1 to breakout terminal 2 (across baseboard modules) thereby bypassing the DB15 cable ... and the points work ok from the East end control panel. As such, the conclusion is the 1m cable is too long and also the small core wire within it is simply not up to the job to transferring and retain the voltage (perhaps tha is why there were cheaper !!). I now have 'virgin' DB15 (DSUB) male and female cable connector ends (75p each from railwayscenics) and will carefully solder 16/02 wiring and make my own cable ... which I'm certain will then work .. also meaning everything you see in the photo remains intact and not wasted - and hopefully still very neat. 

Naturally, the soldering will have to be done carefully and be a little fiddly but I think I'm up to it :-) .. otherwise there is a soldering demonstration and tips stall at the Chiltern Model Railing Exhibition this weekend          http://www.cmra.org.uk/exhibition.html where I can get some extra tips.


Hope this explains better what I'm trying to achieve and that the cost overall has not been excessive at all ... after all there are many ways to connect baseboards :-)

and Trevor, no probs with calling me Kevin ... I also have senior moments myself for sure :-)

cheers

Paul    

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 Posted: Sun Jan 13th, 2019 12:55 pm
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Padster wrote: Hi Trevor .... I am Paul, not Kevin ... seems you called me this before in this thread for some reason.?
Thank you but no need for an illustration ... I did a reply a few mins ago but the posting failed and I lost my text completely :-( ... I'll write it out again tomorrow.

Also Peter ... the cost of the DB15 connectors and cables were not that expensive ... slow boat from China as I was in no rush :-)

More tomorrow
Paul 
I should B. hope not.  Best wishes Kevin 



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 Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2019 08:10 pm
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Hi everyone. Been a little quiet on the forum with my on my layout updates but behind the scenes I have been busy, despite colder nights in the garage!!
In summary, all the electrics are finished and with all modules connected and in place, testing completed 100% successful - I'm very happy and pretty chuffed - all the steady progress and checks / double checks paid off.

I'll continue my updates now on my main Braughing to Standon Branch thread from now on but for completeness on this particular thread (Track power connections across baseboards) and the under baseboard electrics, I'd like to share photos I took throughout which hopefully will be of use to somebody else starting out and give some ideas.A few photos I may have shared on other threads so apologies in advance for any occasional duplication.

The SEEP solenoids and power power drops being positioned - all 16/02 wiring.  


SEEPs and main track power wiring being installed - track power main bus wires all 24/02. Also labelling of all point SEEPS, drop power wiring, track wiring, point polarity wiring (green) undertaken. These are all transferred onto drawn diagrams for accurate reference for any future troubleshooting ... or handing down to my son :-)  


All main track wiring (24/02) for module 1 complete with individual red power feeds (serving each isolation block) bundled together ready to connect to a D-SUB 15 breakout which will be used to connect across to module 2. 


All the module 1 red power feeds connected to the D-SUB 15 breakout and labelled. The same setup will be used on the connecting side of module 2, which will then feed into control panel 1 


The same method of connectivity across the baseboards (module 1 to module 2 for example) is used for the point solenoids, eventually feeding into control panel 1.


Here is the underside of baseboard module 2, showing all track power feeds and point motor solenoid feeds for both modules 1 and 2 converging on the plug choc blocks secured to the underside, complete with labelling.
Also the CDU for point switching is fixed here and all will feed into control panel 1 which will be fixed to the side of the module (to the underside of where the choc blocksare as you view them.
You will also notice 24/02 blue and orange wire to the bottom of the photo feeding into the connection block. These are feeds that run from all power isolation switches (on-off-on) on the control panels and to the power controllers - means I can operate CAB Control with either controller able to operate a loco for the whole length of the layout. See the my other threads (Braughing to Standon Branch I think) when Trevor helped me design this setup.    


A close up of the same.


As mentioned earlier in the thread, the standard D-SUB 15 pin cables seemed not to be up to the job in powering the points to a connected module ... so I made my own after purchasing a male / female pair £1.50 from RailwayScenics, using existing 16/02 wiring and then some plastic sleeves (75p each) also from RailwayScenics. 
Was a little tricky as you can just about fir 16/02 wiring into these but taking your time and using a good soldering technique it can certainly be done and guarantees excellent power transfers across the modules. I used the same principle for both power and points connections across the modules.


With cover sleeve attached - final part to do is wrap wiring with fabric wiring loom tape.


Home made D-SUB cable (fully populated) for the point wiring connection across the modules.


How the finished module 1 and module 2 wiring connections look like.


So thats about it. Please take a look at the main Braughing & Standon Branch thread in the next few days where I will post a few photos on the control panels .. and onward now to the scenics. :-)

regards to all
Paul 

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 Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2019 08:33 pm
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Very neat Paul, wish my wiring was the same...



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 Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2019 08:40 pm
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Very nicely done and well laid out for another person to understand.

Im like Ron nowhere near as neat as yourself

Brian



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 Posted: Sun Feb 3rd, 2019 08:54 pm
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Thanks for the feedback Ron and Brian ... always appreciated
Paul

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 Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2019 04:59 am
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Hi Paul,
I did start out neat with my wiring but it grew like topsy with additions here and there!  So I would think Ron's and mine would be on some sort of par!

Well Done Mate and glad the wiring worked out ... you got there in the end!

Cheers from Oz

Trevor

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 Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2019 12:34 pm
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Hi Paul,

Neat approach. 


Module specifications usually have the connectors in the middle between the modules with block terminals on the boards. Two reasons - makes it easier to get at for connecting/separation (shows, trouble shooting), and only one connector set is needed between modules instead of two.
 

Nigel





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