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Proof that Bachmann have really lost the plot! - Everything Bachmann. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2018 01:16 pm
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col.stephens
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For some time I have had an order with Hattons of Liverpool for the forthcoming Bachmann model of a 45-ton Ransomes and Rapier crane.  Hattons, who are quite savvy in all things model railways, estimated a probable price of around £64.00  This seems a reasonable estimate considering that you can buy a Hornby breakdown crane for around £25.  Obviously the Hornby model will not bear close comparison to the new Bachmann product and as such one is prepared to pay the extra forty quid or so.


However, today I received this news from Hattons:


 'Bachmann have confirmed that the Recommended Retail price for the 45-ton Ransomes and Rapier steam crane is £249.95, resulting in a new sales price of £212.46. This is due to the the terms of supply to all retailers by Bachmann therefore we will unable to provide this item at our estimated price.'


 So basically, Bachmann think they can get away with charging £250 for what is basically two wagons with a crane stuck on top! I understand the arguments about wage increases in China and so on, but I  do not personally intend to fund every Chinaman's new mansion, sports car and his son's private education!  There is a limit to which one is prepared to pay for any model and, looking at the cost of Bachmann's 2018 items,  I think they have now passed that point.


 I immediately cancelled my order with Hattons.  Sitting in my cupboard of unfinished models is one Airfix breakdown crane kit, which cost me under £10 and is still available from Dapol.  I had put it on ice pending the arrival of the new Bachmann model.  Time, I think, to remove it from the cupboard and get it finished.


 Terry


(Disgruntled ex-Bachmann customer).

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 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2018 02:39 pm
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Western Way
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Hi Terry

I expect you are a very experienced railway modeller but you may have missed the 60" full surround sound TV that pops out of the back of the rear wagon, also the solid Gold 10 man crew.   :cool wink

All I can say is I will not be buying one of these either.



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 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2018 05:06 pm
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RFS
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Just had a similar message from Hatton's but for the 2-HAP ordered nearly 2 years ago. Exactly the same prices - RRP £249.95 but Hatton's price £212.46.  Given that the 2-HAP is just an existing 2-EPB with a different trailer coach layout (so most of the design work already done) this seems an awful lot of money for a 2-coach unit, especially as you can currently pre-order a weathered 2-EPB for £119.50. 



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 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2018 05:22 pm
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col.stephens
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Even with Hatton's discounted prices you will be looking at paying around £140 - £160 for any newly released Bachmann tender loco in 2018. Not long ago I bought a Bachmann BR Standard Class 5MT in green from Hattons for £72.  This year a similar loco will be selling for £157!


We are getting into the realms of 'cheque book modelling' which is one of the reasons I gave up O Gauge.  Perversely, ready to run O Gauge locos are becoming cheaper (thanks to Dapol), whilst OO is becoming evermore expensive.  We might soon reach a situation where it will be cheaper to buy an O Gauge loco than a similar model in OO!


Terry

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 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2018 06:49 pm
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amdaley
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I had my eye on one of these but at that price they'll be waiting  :Red Card



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 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2018 07:36 pm
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Longchap
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I had noted the previous £90 estimated Hattons' price for this unit (you must have pre-ordered yours a very long time ago Terry), not that it was ever a probable for me, as the GWR version entered service in the 40s, too late for my era, notwithstanding the fact that it also would never be seen anywhere near a branch line.

There is a lively debate over on RMWeb regarding the still £200+ discounted Hattons' revised price. It appears that this a highly detailed model with a large amount of hand assembly, but the real reason for the hike in price is that Bachmann are looking to recoup their outlay in the first (possibly only) production run of the model for some time.

The question for most modellers would appear to be, 'Do I want / need a 45 ton breakdown crane more than two or three locos?' .

Discuss . . .

Bill

Happy with my ABS Models 1.5T travelling crane!





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 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2018 09:48 pm
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Ben Alder
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Don't know if this will change any minds but some background and details of the crane are featured on this video

https://youtu.be/j8NiR7C2NyQ

I know eyeryones perceptions of value /price are somewhat different, but compared to single coaches now around the £60 range, it seems to me that it is not too excessive  for what you are going to get. Just speaking disinterestdly, BTW, as I am not buying one myself, having no need for it.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2018 10:45 pm
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Longchap
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Thanks Ben, that's certainly an informative interview and I note the Bachmann quote that the crane is 'probably not going to be repeated'.

That may or may not be an encouragement to buy one this time round, while you still can! There are certainly people on RMWeb who are now pre-ordering at the £200+ level. I can't help thinking however, what Bachmann's reaction might be if instead, even more people like Terry, cancelled their existing pre-orders. Might that be encouragement enough for the price to come down?

Just thinking out loud!

Bill



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 Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2018 12:44 am
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amdaley
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Thank you Ben for putting up the link to the video.There's certainly a lot of research that has been taken & the level of detail on the model is certainly very impressive.
I've no doubt that they will sell very well but as I said earlier at that price not  for me.



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 Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2018 12:33 pm
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Allegheny1600
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That is a heck of a lot of money for something that will mainly just sit at the side of the loco depot, looking pretty.
Not something I would consider but over in Europe, Märklin/Trix made an awesome model of a crane, complete with all bells and whistles, sound, working jib and everything.
The price: around £850!
Not for me, thanks!
I wonder if there's a kind of correlation between model cranes and the real thing?
Few depots (or people) can afford one in the first place, they very rarely get used and nobody hardly ever would buy more than one! So their scarcity forces them to remain expensive.
Cheers,
John.



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 Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2018 04:14 pm
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allan downes
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Just seen said crane on youtube and all I can say is that I wouldn't like to try and  scratch build one like it ( not as if I could anyway ) when for a couple of hundred quid plus you can pick up a real beauty like that.

Allan

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 Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2018 08:49 pm
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As a one time Production Engineer who saw his job disappear off to cheap labour abroad I have very little sympathy with everyone now whinging about price increases.

It was obviously going to happen as China gets richer. Consequently it is going to become viable to manufacture much more in the UK. If you really want to compare prices I suggest you check out the Hornby and Triang prices from the 1950s and 1960s, add inflation and you will probably find £250 is not a bad price.

Remember value and price are not always the same thing.

David



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 Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2018 08:21 am
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col.stephens
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The Bachmann crane will have all kinds of unnecessary features, each pushing up the price.  Why do we need a moving jib, gears, pistons, stabilisers?  I don't want to play with it like a ten year old child.  It will either sit stationary in a siding or it will form part of a moving train.  It doesn't require all of these moving features.  I would have preferred some realistic looking, but dummy features, and a much cheaper price.  We can make all kinds of arguments about scale models, etc., but basically we are grown men and women playing with our toy trains and this is a very expensive toy.


Terry 

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 Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2018 11:27 am
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allan downes
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I totally agree with you there, Terry.

It's the same thing with opening cab windows, opening cab doors and opening smoke box doors on some locos which, in my field, it would be just as pointless in making working sash windows and opening/closing doors ( and if I built a loco the wheels probably wouldn't go round either.)


Allan

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 Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2018 08:29 pm
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BCDR
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An absolute bargain! The Marklin digital crane set goes for $899 here. Identical I think to the Roco one, now discontinued (for good reason, temperamental wasn't even close). Mind you, motorized turntables can hit $1500 here. Silly money.

I've seen some digitized and detailed Hornby cranes with working motors on You Tube that look the business. Looking at the Bachmann model that wouldn't be that hard to bash from the Hornby kit. Wild Boar Models did a 3D print kit of an R&R in 4mm for £160, sold out, might be worthwhile asking them to repeat it. The D&S Cowans kit looks good as well (if you can find one, expect to pay £160).

For less than £20 a Hornby one is usually available on eebygum in good consition. Which weathered, rusty and with a bit of detail (couple of dummy cylinders on the side, and get rid of the "big 'andle crank") looks fine at the back of the layout or being towed around in the breakdown train. That way you can buy the engine to pull it around. When I did mine I used the parts from a Tichy Train Group 100 ton breakdown crane kit - all the steam bits, winding drums and cylinders you need are there.

Nigel








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 Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2018 09:53 pm
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And I now remember a YMR member modified a Tyco unit  for his railway

Gormo   and here is the link
http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=13302&forum_id=150&page=1



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 Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2018 10:50 pm
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Railway 'modelling' versus Railway 'buying'...

'Nuff said?

Niggardly Chubber



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 Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2018 11:28 am
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allan downes
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Nigel, I just love your posts, so informative.

I'm supposed to be a pro but know nothing about this crane business and almost naff all about everything else !


Allan.

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 Posted: Sun Jan 14th, 2018 09:03 pm
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Looks like  I'll stick with my old Hornby one too, or the Dapol kit one. For anyone building the dapol one, if you want a three axle chassis instead of the bogies issued the old Mainline LMS Stanier tender chassis is a very good fit.



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