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peterm
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Well first of all, I hope it's only the XD card that's playing up with the colours that are coming up and not the camera.

Anyway, I thought I'd put some pick ups on this because it uses the pinpoint axles and bearings and they don't seem to work very well. You can probably see that I've put in a Zimo SC68 stay alive but I'd sooner not have to use it.

I had the body off, weight out, motor out and can only see that I'd have to cut the brake gear off (as I did on the Beattie Well Tank, also made by Dapol). Or am I missing something.

Has anyone else got one and has been able to do this, what should be a simple job ? Here it is.



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Hi Pete,

Any chance of a look at the chassis? Are those axles being used with the pinpoints in the outside frames?

Nigel

peterm
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I can try for what it's worth, but as I said, it is pin points and that's what it relies on for pickups. It's so tiny that I couldn't possibly get a soldering iron in there without doing a lot of damage.

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Hi Pete,

Just a decent upside down close-up. I'm just interested, seems a bit daft to have this sort of design. How do you keep it clean? I presume these are split axles and live wheels. Hopefully not a split chassis. Alan Gibson type plungers work well in tight spaces, and you hace all that wheel to work with by the look of things.. You could always resort to a whisker running on the upper tread surface.

Nigel

peterm
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Well here we go, but I don't think it'll help much. Yes it is split axle but not split chassis. I should have put something like a 10c piece beside it for scale, but those wheels are tiny, 10.5mm. I used a light and the flash with the camera set to macro, but being all black it was really difficult to get a decent shot. Anyway, it's here.

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Hi Pete,

Interesting. How much lateral slop is there and are those wheels in gauge? Electrical continuity will be between the upper surface of the axle and the contact with the bearing (assuming the manufacturing tolerances are correct and the slopes are the same), some additional weight would make sure the contact is maintained over rough spots. I would solder whiskers to the p/b arms if you can get them out and have them contact the axle inward of the axle cone, or the front face of the wheel. Or the wheel tread surface. 10 or 15 thou' p/b wire should be fine. You could also mount some brass strip across the chassis for p/b wires. I suspect more weight and in gauge wheels will help unless there is excessive slop in the cones. Difficult to regauge split axle designs unless it is a really tight fit. Can be done with packing discs the same diameter as the axle.

Nigel

peterm
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Wheels are in gauge and absolutely no way to get more weight in, it's as full as a boot in there except for where the decoder and SC68 along with associated wiring is. No way to get those pb arms out without cutting the brake gear etc, not that I can see anyway. I can see that the chassis comes apart in the same way as the old Hornby tender drives which to prise it apart with a screwdriver and brute force. It's looking as though I'll have to get cutting.
Thanks for the help Nigel.

peterm
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I've just found out for sure on the Ultrascale site. The brake gear does have to be cut away. At least I can get on with it now.

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Pete, I have the same loco and it runs perfectly.  Why not contact Model Rail with a view to returning it for a replacement?


Terry

Last edited on Fri Jan 12th, 2018 08:04 am by col.stephens

peterm
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It's quite a long time ago now and I've cut the eight pin plug out of it to hard wire a decoder. It also costs plenty to send something like that from Oz, so it's fix it or leave it. I think I might get it apart tomorrow. I did it with the Dapol Beattie Well Tank, so this'll get the same treatment now that I'm sure what to do.

peterm
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A bit of brute force and ignorance was called for and out it came. I used a pair if long nosed pliers and pulled out one of the supporting legs for the brake gear. The other three parted down near the bottom ( the top when it's the right way up) but they'll be no trouble to glue back once I've done the job.

peterm
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I thought I might as well do it so into it I got stuck. I had to build part of the chassis out with plasticard to give  something to glue the strip on one side. I'll be taking the wheels and axles out again when I get some Loctite as they're loose in the axle muffs... why couldn't they have been splined ?

It now runs nicely without the stay alive cap and circuit cluttering up the cab.

peterm
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Spoke too soon. I took the wheels out again to glue the steel axles into the plastic muffs and then realised why they were loose... both of them at the far end to the gear were split ! I glued them in anyway and clamped the axles at the splits, but they're both swollen so It now runs a hairy goat. To be honest, I'm fuming because this loco has spent most of it's life not being used because of the poor pick ups which I've now fixed.

I've written to Dapol (it was one of the original offered by Model Rail, but made by Dapol) and asked if they'll send me a new set of wheels. I see that another release came out late last year, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Has anyone else had this, or am I the only one?

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Hi Pete,

Split axles? There really is no excuse for this. Expect it on old models before the source of the problem was known, not now. Hopefully a new set is in the mail.

Nigel

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No such luck. I had a reply from Dapol telling me that I should contact the Kernow Model Shop, which is where it was purchased or Model Rail who commissioned them. Nice hand washing exercise don't you think. This coming from the manufacturers!

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Hi Pete,

Then I think an email to Ben Jones is called for.

Nigel

peterm
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I know of Dave Jones who now runs DJH Models. Is Ben Jones a boss at Dapol nowadays?

Ps: There's plenty of Jones' in Wales.

Last edited on Tue Jan 16th, 2018 06:33 am by peterm

Sol
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The only Ben Jones I am aware of in the UK model scene was the past editor of BRM magazine.

Not to be confused with DS Ben Jones of Midsomer Murders

peterm
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Aah, that'll be Jones the cop, but then there's Jones the milk, Jones the bread, Jones the coal, etc. So you can see how people get discombobulated. :shock:

peterm
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I've written today to the Kernow Model Shop and wait to see what they say, although with the new release that, as I said, came out late last year (November) I'd hope to be able to get a couple of spares - surely they'd do a few spares?

If not, what are we supposed to do if something goes wrong with a model that's out of warranty as this one is but is otherwise, apart from a small part, quite serviceable.

I didn't realise when I bought this that it had split axles and might have made a different decision if had.

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Hi Pete,

Didn't realise Ben had gone, I stopped getting the magazine some time ago). Richard Foster is now Editor. Email the whole editorial board, they are all modelers.

Long shot, but can you stuff a Stanton/Black Beetle or Hollywood Foundry motor boogie unit in there? Or even a Tenshodo SPUD? Nigel Lawton has some pretty small motors/gears. A really long shot is an Athearn split axle/gear. Tenshodo will supply worms and gears (memory tells me Branchlines in the UK) works well with a better motor.

I have the innards for a Wrightlines K-Kits motor boogie somewhere, this uses Tenshodo worm/gears and a small Mashima motor, pm me if you want to scratch build a motor unit. You would need insulated wheels though. Money pit project. Easier to gut it and run it with a motorized van.

Nigel

peterm
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Apart from badgering the retailers and manufacturers about them not bothering to hold any spares whatsoever, I've come up with a cunning plan; this is to hopefully source 10.5mm wheels on steel pin point axles, Hornby style. Put the old plastic centre in the lathe and drill through so that the new axle will go through with a tight fit (not tight enough to split what's left of the plastic). I can then cut off the damaged part so that the gear is still usable. Disconnect the original wiring from the pick ups, leaving the pin point bearings in situ and use the wiper pick ups that I've fitted.

The only other viable alternative that I can see is to put up with it wobbling. As you say Nigel, it's a money pit project if I go any other way, but thanks for your suggestions.

Right, I'll get back to badgering.

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Hi Pete
Sounds like a plan. What they should have done in the first place. Knurl where the gear locates, should be good for a few years. Alan Gibson for wheels, unless you have a supplier local. If you know the diameter of the wheel and the number of teeth, NWSL probably has it in brass or delrin. They will even make one if you send the old one.

Nigel

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Pete, I was going to suggest the Aussie firm Hollywood Foundry but he is closed for a while
http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/

peterm
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Thanks gentlemen. A shame about Hollywood Foundry, but getting well is more important.

I think I'll have to pluck up courage before attempting this idea I had, but I reckon it'll work if I do it right. I'll only have one chance once I start, so fingers crossed. I might have a look at Ultrascale for the wheels, or Romford/Markits as well as Alan Gibson. I just don't want it to turn into an expensive exercise.

Before I do make a cut or buy wheels, I'll make sure I've exhausted all the other alternatives, like DJ Models and or Model Rail.

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Hi Pete,

You will need an accurate lather or mill/drill for this. You might want to check the diameter of the axles to make sure that a funny non-standard one was not used and that there is enough meat on the gear for drilling through..

Ultrascale will mean a bit of a wait - last time I looked it was 5 months. Check out their gears as well. Have a look at North West Short Line (NWSL) for their range of gears, you may find that there is one that fits. As far as I know Hollywood Foundry gets their wheel sets from the UK.

Nigel



 

peterm
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I tried DCC Supplies and found that they do have spares, so I bought a pair of axles/wheels. My lathe should be good enough so I might have a try once I've got the new ones in my hot little hands. I found some 10.5mm wheels but they were for 3mm scale, so I don't know what axle diameter they'd suit, although I'd reckon they'd be 2mm, but they are insulated disc wheels, so should be OK.

I'll let you know how I get on when the stuff arrives.

Edited to say, I agree about Ultrascale and waiting, but you can't win 'em all.

Last edited on Wed Jan 17th, 2018 04:51 am by peterm

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There maybe some here Pete
http://www.nwsl.com/

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Thanks Sol. I'll have a look when I've measured up for exactly what axle sizes I want in imperial. It has to be 2mm so I'll use the digital callipers which can convert from metric to imperial.

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peterm wrote: No such luck. I had a reply from Dapol telling me that I should contact the Kernow Model Shop, which is where it was purchased or Model Rail who commissioned them. Nice hand washing exercise don't you think. This coming from the manufacturers!




I think you will find that they are quite right Pete.  I believe that under UK law, you have to take the issue up with the retailer, not the manufacturer.  The contract was between you and Kernow, not you and Dapol.


Terry

Last edited on Wed Jan 17th, 2018 08:28 am by col.stephens

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It's the same in Australia, Terry.

Whomever takes the money bears the responsibility for the Warranty.

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Entirely right The Sale of Goods Act makes the seller responsible for faults present at purchase even if  undetected by either party . This can by the way exist for several years, so its Kernow in law interestingly it also includes installation of white goods if carried out by the seller or agent

But you would think that a manufacturer would try a bit harder to help out would you not. Having said that my own experience of Dapol is that they are unhelpful in the extreme, Bachmannn by contrast when I bought an old 0-6-0 with no chassis base plate sent one by return of post.


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Terry and Max, I agree, but the reason I contacted Dapol first was because I thought the manufacturer would be more likely to have spares than the model shop.

robberdoc, I agree with you too, Dapol should have helped out I think. I also emailed DJ Models in the hope they might have some parts seeing as they released the fourth? batch of the Y3 last November, but no reply so far.

I did though, as I said, get the parts from DCC Supplies, so at least I can get it going again. If I can source 10.5mm solid, insulated wheels with 2mm axle holes I'd like to try my luck with what I described earlier.

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Hi Pete,

It's an interesting situation (and not for the consumer). Model Rail commissioned the locomotive, built under contract and presumably to Model Rails' specification by Dapol (in China?) (or Dapol's specification, who knows, they're not telling), sold by a third-party. So you contact the seller, who has the legal responsibility to sell goods for the purpose they intended and who is responsible for the warranty, they of course have no parts and can do nothing (well, they could refund on a pro-rata basis to keep buyers happy), neither does Dapol, neither does Model Rail. Bottom line, the buyer is left holding a lemon, and nobody in the selling chain needs to anything but wring their mitts in sympathy.

I remember Model Rail selling these directly, which would make them at least partially responsible. Or would that be their parent company?

One thing I always try and do is buy using my credit card, that way I get 24 months warranty, not 12. I like Bachmann here for their service/warranty, and you can go online and order parts from their website. Bachmann UK are also OK, but it takes an email to determine whether they have it in stock or not. If they do it's in the mail pretty quickly.

Nigel

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Yeah, it's a game of pass the parcel, but at least I've got the bits on the way. Regarding the credit card, it's good as far as it goes, but this thing is too old to qualify for that. I was just hoping that there'd be some good will involved (who am I kidding) but no such luck.

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Unfortunately nobody keeps spares.  All part of the modern manufacturing and marketing process.  Kernow won't have them and neither will Dapol or Model Rail.  The only reason that Bachmann can sometimes provide spares, is that they cannibalise models which are returned as faulty.  If they haven't had a particular model returned, you won't get spares.  Ask me how I know!


Terry

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Well here we are on the 30th of January and the wheels/axles were posted on the 17th... still not here. These things get to Australia and into the black hole that is Australia Post. Really frustrating. I've had tracked parcels arrive in Oz two days after being posted in England and then another week or two to get the 30 odd miles to me.

Anyway, this is the reason I haven't given any updates.

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Listen 'ere mate - you live at the other side of the world - we live less than 1000 kms from Blighty AND, currently at least, UK is still a member of the same European Union yet it takes a week for a parcel to get here from UK so think yourself lucky !!   :cheers :cheers :cheers :cheers

I sympathise with you regarding spares and lack of after sales interest from the manufacturers - in the main, once they've got your money, you're history.

The one major major major exception is Bachmann who, in my experience, are fantastic.  I've had stuff sent for old locos without so much as a "how old" ?  I think, if it's still made, they'll supply it.  If not, they'll suggest an alternative and give excellent advice on fitting etc. into the bargain - all at an extremely reasonble price.  Go to the top of the class Bachmann. :thumbs

I did however, spend a considerable sum chipping an old split chassis loco and it still didn't sober up.  In the end, it would have been almost as cheap to buy the new release model which not only had a DCC socket, but also didn't have a split chassis.  You live and learn ....................

peterm
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I agree about Bachmann. I've had some help myself from them. I didn't even get a reply from DJ Models.

Sometimes I wish we were closer to Blighty, but you can't win 'em all.

A week to get a parcel from UK... luxury. We only dream of getting parcels that quick. :)

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peterm wrote: I agree about Bachmann. I've had some help myself from them. I didn't even get a reply from DJ Models.

Sometimes I wish we were closer to Blighty, but you can't win 'em all.

A week to get a parcel from UK... luxury. We only dream of getting parcels that quick. :)
Panic not I live in Cornwall and am still, waiting for package from London after ten  days

peterm
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And Saltash ain't even deepest darkest Cornwall is it. :shock:

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no but you still have to pay to escape to England!

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:mutley


                 

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