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Happy New Year. All.   I Had read about a “possible fault”? With Peco points, and lo and behold a set of points had developed a “Hump” at the frog causing a “Step in the Track” , but I had already removed the spring to prevent that “Snap action” you get when the points are thrown , which was likely to invalidate any guarantee . Having already considered building my own points? I read a interesting piece online about a Modeller that had replaced the plastic sleepers with PCB on Peco points, A bit “over the top” ? But with the Peco hump in mind I thought that may be worth a go? With nothing to lose except the cost of the PCB sleepers.   Please advise.   Kevin

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Kevin, the Peco hump is easily fixed by using a track pin though a sleeper near the frog & into the baseboard to hold the "hump" down until ballasted  and to improve the look of Peco, read this
https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/making-peco-better.


and by looking into YMR Index
http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=793&forum_id=46

under Points- you will find a few tips, etc

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And yes remove the spring if using Tortoise/Cobalt turnouts motors  or mechanical methods like slide switches, etc but for solenoids - Peco type, leave them in so the blades are kept in contact with the stock rail.

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Hi Ron Thank you for your reply. The “hump” in the point i am referring to, makes the point look a bit like a banana?and the step in in the Rail is really to much for stock to handle. I will read the notes. When I removed the spring/ s from the points, the “ wire inTube” copes with the gap with the stock rail.  Best wishes. Kevin

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Hi Kevin,

Send it back, the spring is a user replaceable item and has nothing to do with the hump. It should not void the warranty. Sounds like dodgy plastic sleepers contracting.

Replace the sleepers with copper clad or pcb? Doable, especially if one gets broken, but why not just build your own? I can't imagine why you would to replace all of them. Unless it's to make it look more to scale, which is always a compromise and a losing battle because scale sleepers and spacing just looks weird (the narrow gauge track on full size spacing/sleeper issue). Peco track is HO track, even their new "OO" range. Do you have a link to the article?

Nigel
Edit. Found the thread on RMweb. 

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I've remanufactured old Peco turnouts by stripping away the plastic timbers and recovering the two stock rails, blades and closure rails.  Because of the way the crossing and vee are embedded in the plastic moulding, these cannot be recovered.  Therefore, these must be made by the modeller.  Copper clad strip can be used to reconstruct the turnout.

This is a good method if you need a turnout that is a non standard radius.

You'll need roller gauges (DCC Concepts from Gaugemaster I think and this: http://www.doubleogauge.com/shop.htm ) and templates - there are a couple of programs; Templot.(free to download) and Trax2 (my preference because it is easier than Templot but you might find it hard to find - it consists of a very good instructional book and CD).

John

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Happy New Year Nigel , thank you. Returning stuff is okay when one can remember where (and when)it came from ,but in this instant I cannot. As far as making points is concerned I thought that “ if I could repair this set” then it would give me an idea what to expect. And maybe while I am at it? get the Sleeper  vital statistics correct , whatever they are?    Best wishes. Kevin

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Happy New Year.  John and thank you.    As far as downloading is concerned , I need to sort out my laptop, as it isn’t very “PC” at the moment, and when it is, it is ? it doesn’t talk to my printer in the same laguage. I do however have both roller and back to back gauges.  Best wishes. Kevin

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Hi Kevin,

8' 6" or 9' long. This topic has been discussed many times, scaling even 8'6" for 4mm/OO looks to many eyes a bit silly.  
Make sure your rollers/gauges are suitable for the rail code, finer codes usually have a narrower rail head. If your points are correctly wired for DCC now is the time to reduce the gap between the point blades and the outside rails. Peco uses a very wide gap because of the power routing design design. 

Nigel

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And Kevin, this is just one site selling track & turnout parts
https://www.dccconcepts.com/product-category/track-and-track-making-parts/dccconcepts-track-and-track-making-parts/


and this    http://www.finescale.org.uk/

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Hi Nigel Thank you for your reply. so that means the difference of “2 mm over a Sleeper” that would hardly be noticeable ? In comparison to your thread about the spacing between the sleepers, which would over a length oftrack make a noticeable difference and be worth doing, at the outset,  but not a good idea to lift all the track and start again. My roller gauges are ade for OO. Best wishes. Kevin

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Hi Ron. Thank you.   At the moment I am still considering my next move. I now have the #146 Couplers from  Gaugemaster , they are a better proposition than the #5’s. I seem to be bogged down with jobs to do? I really need to get myself organised. I think I need a “Tome Table”, not just get up and have breakfast. But Get you Finger Out, and do something , it is too easy to loll about all day.   Best wishes. Kevin

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Does the use of isopropyl alcohol as a wetting agent have anything to do with this? (When ballasting)

I ask because I recently degreased a sleeve around a broken radio tuning knob with ISO.A to repair same (I dropped my trusty Panasonic transistor radio of some 40 years vintage) and the sleeve and shafts swelled up so much I needed to drill it out....

Jus' thinkin',

Doug

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Hi Kevin

8'6" in metric (4mm to the foot) is 34mm. Which is what my EM track is with a gauge of 18.2mm (which is a tad undersized compared to P4 at 18.84mm). Peco track is I believe 28mm, with a gauge of 16.5mm. This has 7.7mm of sleeper outside the rails on each side (almost the same as P4). Lay 16.5mm gauge track on scale real size sleepers and it really does look odd - there is too much sleeper at either side of the rails - 8.75mm. That couple of mm makes a difference. C+L Finescale OO track comprises by having the length I think of 30mm.  Increasing the inter-sleeper spacing makes a better looking track than increasing the length of the sleepers.

Nigel

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Kevin, following  on from Nigels' comments about spacing, have a read about the new Peco track

https://www.pecopublications.co.uk/peco-anounces-2016-new-items-programme.html

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Happy New Year Doug . Thank you. The particular set of points which I began this thread with has not been near Ballasting  I believe that it is a well known.fact with Peco points. Something to do with the plastic being unable to contain the expansion or whatever of the metal. And if I knew this fact Fifty Years ago I may not having begun this thread .   Best wishes.  Kevin

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Kevin,  NOT all Peco points are bowed in the middle....

and those that are, are easily fixed/repaired.

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Hi Ron.    Thank you . I hope not too, as all of my points are by Peco , fingers crossed, AFAIK .it was just an idea to resarect a bowed set and add another “ Striing to my Bow?”   Best wishes  Kevin 

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Hi Kevin,

Have a go at adding copper-clad sleepers, I bet you will be building your own shortly afterwards. Especially if you start using the new Peco OO track or even better C+L track if it's available.

One thing to note is that turnouts have wider timbers than track. Devil's in the details.

Nigel

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BCDR wrote:Hi Kevin,

Have a go at adding copper-clad sleepers, I bet you will be building your own shortly afterwards. Especially if you start using the new Peco OO track or even better C+L track if it's available.

One thing to note is that turnouts have wider timbers than track. Devil's in the details.

Nigel
Hi Nigel    Thank you. This new Peco OO  Track ??, That you mentioned as good or bad as it is? I have a lot of the “Old Style” flat bottom rail that is still “ Virgin Territory” . Where I read ? that the new stuff is Bull Head, if that is correct? How do they marry up , and would you want to??Best wishes.   Kevin

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Hi Kevin,

Yes it's bullhead, not FB. No idea how you would connect them, presumably regular connectors or a special BH to FB one.

There are two schools of thought when it comes to track - lay it, ballast it and forget about its lack of resemblance to real track, or try and make it look as reasonably close to the prototype as possible (this is quite frankly is governed by time and money, and whether you want to spend most of your time laying track or playing trains). In an ideal world OO 4mm scale would  use 18.83mm gauge track with rolling stock to match. Not going to happen. And it can be a time-consuming and expensive job converting locomotives to P4 (or even EM) gauge, often almost as much as the locomotive cost.

I usually compromise by buying RTR track, construct my own turnouts to the frog angles I want. Which is the plan for the latest layout (plank). Fiddle yards get what's cheap and handy, usually Atlas HO track. Luckily I will be able to source some very good RTR 16.5mm On30 track (Micro-Engineering).

Nigel


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Thank you. Nigel.  I think that I am with you on this “Ideal World” and track laying versus playing trains? I did visit a Scalefour Show , very interesting , but I only went for a Select bunch of traders, better than waiting for the postman? Just before Christmas I sent for three packets of Kadee 146, and today I scewewd one onto the end of the chassis of anothe project, unlike the Kadee couplers that push into  a NEM Pocket, which can sometimes be a bit sluggish , the 146 swung violently to the left as it passed over the first Neodymium , and again violently over to the right as it passed over the second Neodymium . Another thing I found was the Dapol variation of NEM pockets are very loose, I have chosen a Guineae Pig wagon to remove the NEM pockets and screw on 146’s, I just hope it is a good as the project chassis?   Best wishes Kevin 

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Richard Johnson of DCC Concepts used to lament on another forum about how people spend all sorts of time and effort on their rolling stock and completely ignore the track.  Building a model railway should include a resonable model of the permanent way in his view.  This is why he released the range of handbuilt track that Sol referred to earlier.  He is also a proponent of SS rail but, from what I've read, you're better off with NS.

As for 4 wheeled wagons, I always found that fitting #5 or #58 (I think - the whisker spring equivalent to #5 anyway) was easy as you like and was less obtrusive than the NEMs.

John

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Happy New Year  John . Thank you, I am with on the NEM Pocket , especially .those on Dapol wagons, as I replied to Nigel , the effect of the Neodymium magnet as the # 146 passed was really positive . And the comment on the permanent way which after all is the most important part.   Best wishes.  Kevin


                 

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