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Prices of model train stuff - Kit Bashing - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 07:25 am
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Roy Low
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Am I the only person to be freaking out at the huge price increases since January ?

I live in South Africa, so the new U.K. prices makes the hobby really expensive here. ( The daft politics here have ruined the value of the Rand.)

Another problem is that many of the dealers on eBay won't deal with us.

A fact of life here is that the Post Office has become useless, and incoming mail goes first to the "Port of Johannesburg " where it can sit for weeks before delivery.

Roy Low   :cry:

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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 12:21 pm
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Western Way
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On my return to model railways, after a gap of over 20 years, I noticed the huge increase in prices. A lot of the models have got much better, running and detail wise which is a trade off but still some prices are truly eye watering.

I have had a few problems with some of my engines too which is made all the more annoying by their cost.

I have just had to make do with less rolling stock in general to compensate for the high costs.

John.



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Oh, Dr Beeching what have you done?
There once were lots of trains to catch, but soon there will be none.
I'll have to buy a bike, 'cos I can't afford a car.
Oh, Dr Beeching what a naughty man you are!
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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 01:51 pm
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Petermac
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I'd agree.

When I "returned" to railway modelling several years ago, prices, if not exactly cheap, seemed "reasonable" but the quality had rocketed off the scale during the 20 or 30 years I'd been "away".

Then, about 2 years ago, prices suddenly jumped and have continued to rise steadily.  Fortunately, I now have a decent stable but, when something is released that I'd like, the cost often puts me off.  Hornby coaches are a prime example. A year or two ago, they averaged maybe up to £20.  Now, they all seem to be in excess of £30.  I do wonder what the actual percentage rise has been over the last, say 5 years.

I suspect it's probably because the majority of railway modellers appear to be "retired gentlemen of a certain age".  We are, in the main, living on fixed pensions which don't really move that much but price increases are based on current costs which, in spite of apparent low inflation, continue to rise - probably associated with rapidly increasing costs in China.



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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 03:17 pm
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xdford
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The increase in prices has been a bug bear of mine for quite some time too! My main concern is that it blocks out the new modeller from getting underway quickly, particularly kids. I know we have demanded those polished emergency stop valves in the vestibules of the coaches or the brake shoes showing prototypical wear levels.. and the question I need to ask is why when we cannot see it from a regular distance? Do we insist on knowing it is there?
I know Hornby have their "Railroad" series but is it enough? There was a bit part mag that made an appearance here in Oz (Build Your Own Model Railway?) where the first offering was a British Coach and a length of track. I bought two but whole trainsets of 7 cars (with lengths of track and the trackmat) walked out of the newsagents and that was just the local one!  Please do not tell me that it was total loss leader for the series but obviously enough were interested in the bargain to overlook the detail differences. They sold for $7 here, well below the cost of a comparable Hornby or Bachmann coach. 

Over the years I have seen many layouts, some exquisitely detailed, and others that convey the impression of their intended prototype extremely well although the rolling stock was more a caricature than true scale models. Both were fun but I think the former  has driven up the cost for the latter which I suspect is not the majority of us!    

My personal thing is to get as many into the hobby as we can and when I see slot car sets being sold cheaply as intro pieces as being a better quality than somewhat dearer train sets, then something is to me is not quite right in the market and although the hobby has a lot of latent interest, it needs to be piqued to break that barrier!

How I see it...

Regards from Oz

Trevor

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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 03:23 pm
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Western Way
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xdford wrote: The increase in prices has been a bug bear of mine for quite some time too! My main concern is that it blocks out the new modeller from getting underway quickly, particularly kids. I know we have demanded those polished emergency stop valves in the vestibules of the coaches or the brake shoes showing prototypical wear levels.. and the question I need to ask is why when we cannot see it from a regular distance? Do we insist on knowing it is there?
I know Hornby have their "Railroad" series but is it enough? There was a bit part mag that made an appearance here in Oz (Build Your Own Model Railway?) where the first offering was a British Coach and a length of track. I bought two but whole trainsets of 7 cars (with lengths of track and the trackmat) walked out of the newsagents and that was just the local one!  Please do not tell me that it was total loss leader for the series but obviously enough were interested in the bargain to overlook the detail differences. They sold for $7 here, well below the cost of a comparable Hornby or Bachmann coach. 

Over the years I have seen many layouts, some exquisitely detailed, and others that convey the impression of their intended prototype extremely well although the rolling stock was more a caricature than true scale models. Both were fun but I think the former  has driven up the cost for the latter which I suspect is not the majority of us!    

My personal thing is to get as many into the hobby as we can and when I see slot car sets being sold cheaply as intro pieces as being a better quality than somewhat dearer train sets, then something is to me is not quite right in the market and although the hobby has a lot of latent interest, it needs to be piqued to break that barrier!

How I see it...

Regards from Oz

Trevor

Another problem with all of these wonderful detail bits is how easily they break off  :cry: I have got several friends who are interested in starting a model lay out, having seen mime, but are put off by costs.



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Oh, Dr Beeching what have you done?
There once were lots of trains to catch, but soon there will be none.
I'll have to buy a bike, 'cos I can't afford a car.
Oh, Dr Beeching what a naughty man you are!
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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 03:48 pm
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sparky
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I found a five year old RM in the bedside drawer just two days ago.  I coud not help but compare the price of locos,etc then to the present day .  The increase is tremendous ,given that the product is better these days , but in some instances old tooling is still in use.  I just don,t buy so much ,but make do with what i have. Not sure where we go from here.



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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 06:03 pm
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BCDR
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I did a quick comparison of prices in RM back in 1965 and 1974 compared to today and the value of the pound then and now. No real difference. In fact often cheaper. Same over here in $.

Nigel



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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 06:28 pm
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The Q
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The Chinese low wage workers are no longer super low wages, now their wages are similar to low wage European workers. Meanwhile the pound has dropped in value.
Hornby brought back humbrol paint production, airfix was moved to India. I can see railway model manufacture being removed from china.
But sadly I don't think prices will go back to where he were.



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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 06:51 pm
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Longchap
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I still have my aged Hornby 57xx pannier tank, bought new for about a tenner 40 years ago. It had a crude unpainted shiny green plastic body, but with work, carving off moulded details, adding handrails knobs and handrails, bunker window bars, etched brass number plates, real coal, correct paint, and transfers, it looked so much better, despite the toy-town chassis.

If one had the work done professionally it would have looked a bit better and cost a packet, but I would have learnt nothing and not had so much fun.

I've since bought new Bachmann panniers at around £75. The level of detail and running abilities are as we all know, simply fabulous and it's easy to add a DCC decoder if DCC is your thing.

So here's the punchline: the real cost between the two is negligible and new models just keep coming! Personaly and everyone has their views, I don't think there's a significant difference in cost.

By the way: in my 20s, I had very little disposable income, but model railwaying was an addiction and to get quality looking stock took a little effort, much the same as it does today for young impoverished modellers.

Going DCC however, adds more cost, but that's another debate.

Bill



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At 6'4'', Bill is a tall chap, then again, when horizontal he is rather long and people often used to trip over him! . . . and so a nickname was born :)

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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 07:42 pm
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Western Way
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Found this, Bachmann price list 2013

http://www.bachmann.co.uk/pricelists/branchline_pricelist_2013.pdf

Unweathered 0-6-0 Pannier tanks are £73.95

Today they are around £95.00

In 1996 a Hornby Class 4P 2-6-4T cost £44.99


Now they are about £139.99






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Oh, Dr Beeching what have you done?
There once were lots of trains to catch, but soon there will be none.
I'll have to buy a bike, 'cos I can't afford a car.
Oh, Dr Beeching what a naughty man you are!
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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 08:20 pm
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Longchap
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If you're after one John, go for this early BR crest for just a tad over 80 of your British pounds:

http://www.hattons.co.uk/182147/Bachmann_Branchline_31_636A_Class_64xx_0_6_0PT_pannier_tank_6422_in_BR_black_with_early_emblem/StockDetail.aspx

Bill



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At 6'4'', Bill is a tall chap, then again, when horizontal he is rather long and people often used to trip over him! . . . and so a nickname was born :)

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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 08:40 pm
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Petermac
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Western Way wrote: Found this, Bachmann price list 2013

http://www.bachmann.co.uk/pricelists/branchline_pricelist_2013.pdf

Unweathered 0-6-0 Pannier tanks are £73.95

Today they are around £95.00

In 1996 a Hornby Class 4P 2-6-4T cost £44.99


Now they are about £139.99





That's interesting.

Using an online inflation calculator,  that 2013 Pannier should now be £80 but I suppose we must allow something extra for having a higher quality product today than in 2013 - how much higher the quality is, I'm not sure.

The 1996 Class 4P should also be £80 today based on UK inflation rates only but we certainly do have a much better model 20 years down the line.  Are they 200% better I wonder......................... ? :hmm

I think that does prove what we've been saying.  Over the last 20 years or so, quality has improved in leaps and bounds and the cost of that improvement wasn't particularly significant.  However, over the last 4 years, we've seen a real hike in prices which was hardly offset by quality improvements.

I'm certain that has a lot to do with what Queren said about Chinese wage rises.  I have a friend who works in the toy industry, essentially Hong Kong based and charged with sourcing product in China.  He tells me that, over the last 5 years, there has been massive wage inflation in China and the effect on production costs has been dramatic.



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 Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2017 09:48 pm
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Longchap
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Petermac wrote: Western Way wrote: Found this, Bachmann price list 2013

http://www.bachmann.co.uk/pricelists/branchline_pricelist_2013.pdf

Unweathered 0-6-0 Pannier tanks are £73.95

Today they are around £95.00

In 1996 a Hornby Class 4P 2-6-4T cost £44.99

Now they are about £139.99

That's interesting.

Using an online inflation calculator,  that 2013 Pannier should now be £80 but I suppose we must allow something extra for having a higher quality product today than in 2013 - how much higher the quality is, I'm not sure.

Hi Peter,

That 2013 Pannier would have had the dreaded split chassis, now relagated to eBay, so we do now have a higher quality and effective chassis, DCC compatible of course. Oh and still to be had for £80, depending on where you buy it.

I hope your remaining move preparations go smoother than you think.

Best,

Bill



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At 6'4'', Bill is a tall chap, then again, when horizontal he is rather long and people often used to trip over him! . . . and so a nickname was born :)

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 Posted: Sun Dec 31st, 2017 12:05 am
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sparky
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Ah yes i didn,t think of the value of the pound etc.  looks like i am out of step.
I keep thinking i have enough stock ,and then up comes an irrestable item.
Just have to bite the bullet and cough up. :roll:



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 Posted: Sun Dec 31st, 2017 03:32 am
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BCDR
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Just checked my nbhs (new best hobby shop (Train World, NY, NY) for some On30 items, decided to have a look at HO steam locomotives in light of the above discussion, All prices in US$.

First some Bachmann models:


Western Pacific 4-8-4, normally $179.99, on special for $99.99, DCC equipped.


Southern 4-6-0 with DCC Sound value, normally $239.99, on special for $174,99.


Porter 0-6-0 side tank, Pennsylvania, DCC equipped, normally $83.99, on special for $59.99.

Moving up-market, some BLI models:



Great Northern 2-8-0, sound and smoke, $329.99.



Commodore Vanderbilt Hudson, NYC, 4-8-4, sound, $374.99.

And probably even further upmarket to the forthcoming Rapido model, which is laser scanned and comes with every detail (just don't sneeze or cough, something is bound to fall off):



Canadian Pacific Royal Hudson 4-6-4, DCC sound, $559.99.

Bottom line - high quality and accuracy with sound will set you back $330-$560 (£250-£420). There are cheaper than Bachmann, but that's getting into toy town territory.

Nigel







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 Posted: Sun Dec 31st, 2017 05:15 pm
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Yelrow
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I am afraid, its our fault the prices rise. Many are craving more detailed models. For me, all the add on bits that come in little poly bags, remain in the bags. Hornby Railroad, are to my mind the best value. In the last 2 years i had bought nothing new, until my eldest sent me my MTH GE ES 44AC. Finest, most detailed loco i have ever owned, and the sound/ lights etc, need to be seen to be belived. You american guys are very fortunate having these for sale, locally. The post, and import tax, negates me looking at others. john

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 Posted: Sun Dec 31st, 2017 08:39 pm
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Barry Miltenburg
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I agree that prices are rising but let's not lose sight of the fact that taking your wife out for a decent meal with a bottle of wine is probably £70 and it's all over on 90 minutes.  At least a locomotive lasts longer although perhaps less romantic..............

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 Posted: Sun Dec 31st, 2017 10:14 pm
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Yelrow
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if i spent £70 on a meal with my wife, she would think i had a guilty secret, ( a new loco ), perhaps. john

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 Posted: Sun Dec 31st, 2017 10:30 pm
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Petermac
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Never mind a meal - if a wife was going to cost me £70, I'd do without one ................... :lol:

What's wrong with fish and chips at a fiver ...............?



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 Posted: Sun Dec 31st, 2017 11:16 pm
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When did fish and chips last cost a fiver?   :hmm



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