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shunting layout - Layout Design, Trackwork & Operation. - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2017 09:24 pm
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Bobby098
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hi all , want to build a small shunting layout 00 scale this time,   question is  what points are best ? electrofrog  or insulfrog 
short or long points ?  doing it dc with small steam locos  :oops: sorry about silly questions  hope you can help cheers bob 

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 Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2017 10:06 pm
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Brossard
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Hi Bobby.  I really liked your last layout.  I'd go with Electrofrog points (to ensure that there are no dead spots), as long as possible but with small locos the short points should work OK.

Hope you keep us informed.

John



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 Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2017 08:39 am
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Bobby098
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cheers john 

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 Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2017 12:33 pm
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amdaley
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Electrofrog every time.



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 Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2017 04:52 pm
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BCDR
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Hi Bobby,

Electrofrogs if you want minimal work. Keep in mind they are power-routed through the point blades.

Nigel



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 Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2017 05:07 pm
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Brossard
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I don't know if things have changed but when I used them, they relied on a contact on the blades for contact.  This contact fairly quickly got dirty and the point became unreliable.  Better to short the stock and closure rails with a wire jumper and isolate the frog.  This requires a polarity switch.  Also a good idea to solder an omega loop from the blade to the closure rails.  Again, a lesson learned since the hinge can become loose over time and contact intermittent.

If you want slow speed shunting, I think everything possible should be done to ensure reliable operation.

John



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 Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2017 07:38 pm
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col.stephens
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Hello Bob.  Electrofrog every time for more reliable running. You are probably putting the cart before the horse. You can't decide on which turnouts to use until you have planned the layout. 


Terry

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 Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2017 09:17 pm
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Petermac
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I'm with everyone else - electrofrog - and yes, it's important to bridge between the stock and closure rails.  I have read of problems at the hinge although I've never actually met anyone who has experienced it.  I suspect, by the time the hinge wears out, you'll have moved on in layout terms anyway ............. ;-)

Presumably, we're talking Peco points........... :roll:

The length isn't particularly important on a small shunting layout although, to me, the small radius look a little "toy-like" being quite a sharp curve.  I'd use medium if I were doing it.



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 Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2017 10:15 pm
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Brossard
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Petermac wrote:  I have read of problems at the hinge although I've never actually met anyone who has experienced it.
You have now Peter,  :mutley happened to me on my exhibition layout.  I repaired it by soldering the hinge.  The Tortoise motor was able to operate the point with no trouble. :Happy

John



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 Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2017 10:16 pm
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Petermac
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:thumbs

Was it an old point John ?



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 Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2017 10:20 pm
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Brossard
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Not particularly Peter.  It's the only time I had the problem but I think worth passing on the caution.

John



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 Posted: Wed Nov 29th, 2017 12:19 pm
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Bobby098
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cheers guys , I take it they have to be wire up different ?  :oops: not very good with electrics sorry .. cheers bob

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 Posted: Wed Nov 29th, 2017 02:13 pm
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BCDR
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Hi Bobby,

Electrofrogs in my experience (5 years exhibition modules) can work reliably without any modification. The power routing design has one major inherent weaknesses - point blade/power rail contact. Both the blade and power rail contact must be clean and conductive. Simple stuff - protect with masking tape when ballasting/painting, clean regularly (small piece of kitchen paper towel and some alcohol such as meths or IPA), and use the multimeter to check continuity (full voltage, no resistance).

Other issues are the hinge between the point rails and closure rails, essentially one frog angle (which can pose problems for older stock with wide tread and wheel slop), and of course the spring that locks the point rails, and that the frog exit rails will change polarity, which can result in a short if a locomotive is sitting over the insulating join. All of the electrical issues can be addressed by simple wiring additions that involve nothing more than a bit of wire and the soldering iron. Well worth investing a bit of time in learning this (follow the diagram, wire A to B). No more difficult than wiring power droppers to the track. Unless you plan on operating the turnouts continuously they'll last quite a few years. Even if the hinge goes it can be replaced with a new piece of rail and a rail joiner, plus a bit of wire. The springs can be obtained by writing to Peco.

Plenty of information on the web about improving Peco turnouts, it doesn't matter whether it's DC or DCC. All the info about making Peco turnouts DCC friendly is 100% applicable to DC operations. Especially shunting operations at slow speeds.

Nigel



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 Posted: Wed Nov 29th, 2017 10:33 pm
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Sol
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One method of making Peco turnouts friendly
http://www.mrol.com.au/Media/12/Articles/Electrical/Wiring%20Live%20Frog%20Turnouts.pdf



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