Video Archive         Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Layout Design, Trackwork & Operation. > Braughing to Standon branch design for N gauge To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  Next Page Last Page  
Start New Topic Reply Printer Friendly

Braughing to Standon branch design for N gauge - Layout Design, Trackwork & Operation. - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
AuthorPost
 Posted: Sun Mar 25th, 2018 01:31 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 61st post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Really grateful for this Trevor ... I see exactly what you mean now - and I too missed the goof but my excuse is I would come back to the diagrams in detail around about now as I'm beginning the track testing and pre wiring tasks.
One thing I did want to be sure about and has been bugging me - primarily as I perhaps should know the answer already but still lack a tad of confidence amongst you experts - In the really helpful diagrams you've helped with there are various green marks which indicate where sections of track must be isolated in order the blocks of power to the track can be controlled for operational effectiveness. 

The question - I assume these isolation 'greens' are in addition to the standard requirement for the two Insulated Rail Joiners after the frog of electro-frogs which must be there for polarity reasons when the point is thrown? I've tried to show what I mean with the superimposed point below with the IRJ's marked in yellow.



cheers
Paul

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun Mar 25th, 2018 02:33 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 62nd post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hello Paul,
The isolation greens ARE the Insulated Rail Joiners and the green is simply showing the positions of the Insulated Rail Joiners or at least the relative positions of those joiners. Where you see them on one side, that is the side you apply one joiner to while using a metal joiner on the unmarked side! 

The actual position of the joiner is not an issue as long as it is in the vicinity of the area shown and on the same side of the rail.  

If you are still stuck on this, take a photo of your actual layout as an aerial view and I can draw in the position of the joiners but you should follow what I meant in the first paragraph,

Cheers

Trevor

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Mar 26th, 2018 12:19 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 63rd post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Great .. understood Trevor. I believe I'll be ok with this now but as an exercise on how well I really HAVE understood it (or not) I have taken some aerial shots of the layout and will mark the IRJ on it myself ... then you can mark me out of 10 :-)
I have some other emails I have to attend to first but will post my homework shortly :-)

Paul

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Mar 28th, 2018 12:19 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 64th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

So ... here goes Trevor ... based on your previous advice and my required operational needs, here is where the IRJ will be - some my look a little close to an adjacent track but purely because space was tight to depict but hopefully its clear. Also, I indicated of parts of both station layouts where the live and common will be ... this will be followed through the overall layout. Where there are no IRJ then points against switching will form the isolation.
West Station and sidings

 
East Station and sidings - the assumptions being I can hold a branch passenger DMU in the bay road .. 


cheers
Paul

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Mar 28th, 2018 12:21 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 65th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Not sure if you can see this clearly enough now I've posted it ... let me know if not.. 
Paul

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Mar 28th, 2018 01:30 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 66th post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hello Paul,  My second go at this as for some reason my browser shut down.
You have fairly well nailed it so well done!!!  I enlarged the picture so that it was easier to see and checked it against my original diagram for the West Station

However in the process of double checking both our works, I noticed two more slight errors on my part for the West Station so here they are -

a. There is no common feed to the siding between "K and "N"  - fairly easily corrected

b. The common wire between "G" and "H" either needs to be removed or an IRJ placed on the common side at "H"

We have a fairly busy day but I will check the "East Station" in a while!

Again sorry about the goofs... you think you have something covered and there it is. Had you got to the testing stage as I outlined, I think you would have found it anyway but there you go!

Cheers

Trevor


Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Mar 28th, 2018 11:42 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 67th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Trevor ... and I think you're too hard on yourself - you help many people with these diagrams and guidance so inevitable a few hiccups with all those layouts going around in your head :-)
I'll check things out later today after work ... and hopefully my BR Class 20 shunter will turn up later or tomorrow, then my locos (and DMU) will be complete.

Paul

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Mar 28th, 2018 12:20 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 68th post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hello Paul,
Thanks for the backup... appreciated!
 
At the moment I think there is no problem with the East Station wiring diagram ( I checked it again before starting to write this) but I will look at it again in a day or two and confirm that. About a month ago we had a leak in our roof that damaged a ceiling  and while I was looking at the diagram this morning, we had the plasterers in so that casual glance without a pre-thought meant I saw it as was rather than how I thought it was! 

Regardless of  whether you went with DCC or blocks as we have, you still would have issues with wiring and insulators so I guess the question is, do you eventually want to go to DCC? There would be some rejigging needed with IRJ's etc but it is not impractical to alter the plans accordingly. 

Anyway, for now good luck with it!

Cheers from Oz

Trevor

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2018 10:52 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 69th post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hello Paul,
I have gone over the East Station a couple of times (earlier this morning before work and just a few minutes ago circa 5:30 after work) and unlike the West side, I cannot see any problems arising with the wiring... yet. 

However I invite a check and anything unforeseen will show itself when you do the electrical testing or if anyone else wants to point out anything glaring, they are most welcome to!

I have only one "concern" and that is the "Head shunt" for the yard on the track I marked "14"... is it long enough for you to put in a reasonable rake of wagons? It looks long enough in the original "from the air" views but the aerial shots make it look quite short!  Does the layout go further east than it looks?

Hope the questions are not impeding your progress

Regards

Trevor

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2018 02:11 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 70th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Trevor ... your earlier question - no plans to go DCC at all so I stick with our block design. You make a good point on the head shunt at the far end of the East station (quasi fiddle) but I should be able to get 5 wagons (6 if all smaller ones) in there ok .. see photos. I did toy with the idea of changing some of the layout to allow for more but this would also apply to the West station yard where these is a similar head shunt. In the end 5-6 wagons should be fine as I plan to operate with a lot of smaller wagon movements rather than longer - this would also be right for the era I am recreating on the layout towards the end of its lifetime, where mostly it was smaller freight movements and only on its final days were there 8-10 wagons moved as they were 'collected up' along the lines smaller sidings to be moved off to Temple Mills or Stratford goods yards.
  

 

Lastly, stupid Easter question ... using the photo below of the same point indicated on the diagram insert for IRJ's, I assume I simply use them here where indicated in yellow and green ... or even further along to the left if I so wished as they will be performing isolation for the blocks 4 & 6? Also, is there still a need to connect the live frog (marked in red) to the motor point for purposes of polarity?



All regards
Paul

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2018 12:48 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 71st post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hello Paul,
I did not actually indicate that the frog needs to be connected but the rail on the "south side" does.  I am not quite sure why you need to electrify the frog with a backup contact in the point motor as should function OK with the contact through the blade of the switch point but there is also no reason not to if that is what you are comfortable with.  The IRJ's as you have shown them are in the right position for that point... well done again!

Personally I have only ever used a couple of point motors and currently do not have them although I am tempted with a relatively new installation to dig out the motors I do have. However for the far reach areas of the layout I do use mechanical point rods and I have never had an issue over 20 plus years.

On my diagram of Feb 24, I used the last switch on the local switchboard to feed in past the point at "D" which I then used as an isolating point for the leads to section "9" which you might wish to change by ...

a)  adding another DPDT switch to control section "9" and...

b) adding another pair of IRJ's at "H" between "H" and "G", one to each rail based on the diagram of Feb 24

That will be your call how you handle it, and no doubt some minor tweak will be needed,

Cheers and Happy Easter

Trevor


Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2018 09:54 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 72nd post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Trevor, thanks for the pointer re: 24 Feb diagram ... I'll check this in more detail this evening. You are quite right - these is no need to connect up the V part of the frog so the whole frog has dedicated power via the point motor. the basic function of the point blade and rail live / common connections does a perfect job, only I've read on this and other forums that over time the track / blades get dirty, oxidised, etc and can make the smooth running of a slow loco problematic ... so I was considering connecting up the V frogs now so I would not have to bother at some point in the future although equally I may never run into problems if I'm meticulous in my track cleaning regime. 
I guess there will be varied opinion on the topic from other peers but I'll have a think about it and make a decision before getting to the serious track and point motor fixing stage.

cheers
Paul     

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2018 02:00 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 73rd post
Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3501
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Padster wrote: Hi Trevor, thanks for the pointer re: 24 Feb diagram ... I'll check this in more detail this evening. You are quite right - these is no need to connect up the V part of the frog so the whole frog has dedicated power via the point motor. the basic function of the point blade and rail live / common connections does a perfect job, only I've read on this and other forums that over time the track / blades get dirty, oxidised, etc and can make the smooth running of a slow loco problematic ... so I was considering connecting up the V frogs now so I would not have to bother at some point in the future although equally I may never run into problems if I'm meticulous in my track cleaning regime. 
I guess there will be varied opinion on the topic from other peers but I'll have a think about it and make a decision before getting to the serious track and point motor fixing stage.

cheers
Paul     
Paul, that is the main reason why modellers do power up the frog independent of blades contacting stock rails.

The new Peco 00 Bullhead points already have the blades hard wired to stock rails & the frog  - Unifrog - is completed isolated allowing the user to wire it up if required.  This concept has been in use with their H0n  & Code 83 line for a while now & it is guessed by some in the UK that as Peco updates existing turnouts, they too will become Unifrog
https://thehobbyshop.wordpress.com/category/product-information/



____________________
Ron
NCE DCC ; 00 scale UK outline.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2018 02:07 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 74th post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hello Paul,
You are using prudence to provide for future events with the cleaning. I am dealing with HO so I have a bit more space to deal with cleaning (and I do not have to that often especially now I am inside the main house) but thinking about it, for the want of a couple of minutes work, you will increase your overall reliability and not have the issue of cleaning apart from the track/wheel contact surfaces of course, so if you are prepared to do it, go for it!

Cheers

Trevor

Edited Note,

PS  Looks like Ron beat me to it!  Wonder if Peco will apply the same principle to their N scale points?

Cheers

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat Mar 31st, 2018 10:52 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 75th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Sol & Trevor - as always the GFO are super helpful (Guru's From Oz)

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon May 7th, 2018 09:46 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 76th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi all.. 
Been busy soldering all my power droppers which is going well ... and now getting close to the stage where I want to start planning wiring up the SEEP point motors. Based on the last few replies above where Sol and Trevor were discussing with me on livening up the V on the Electrofrog points based on throwing the point switch ... I'm now a little concerned that on N gauge code 55 streamline turnouts this is going to be pretty tricky with so little space to actually solder the wire to the track (either the side of the track or the underside).

You can see what I mean with the limited space in the pics below. I'm clear on how to connect everything up but can really only find examples of O gauge turnouts being soldered on YouTube and not code 55.

 

I can imagine the only place to solder a live wire is at the point indicated with the red arrow in the 2nd pic above, either to the outside of the track or underneath - any other thoughts please ... or even better a link to a video where is actually demonstrating this for code 55 turnouts?

cheers
Paul   

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon May 7th, 2018 10:16 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 77th post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Paul,
These are electrofrog points so the connection point for the wire does not need to be (in the way you have drawn) west of the frog, Location of the wire does not strictly speaking matter.

You can connect your wire for the frog...



Either the red or the orange connection point will do with the feed wire on the outside of the rail,

Hope this helps

Trevor


Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue May 8th, 2018 08:44 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 78th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Trevor ... too much sun over the bank holiday for me I think - of course, the whole frog is live so can be connected in various places. Doh!!

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue May 8th, 2018 11:01 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 79th post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Paul,

I must have been suffering from a bit of heat stroke in this autumn weather here too, having put East instead of West - now corrected!  Easy enough not to think in terms of electrical feedback.

In the interests of this forum helping others, how is the testing going? Have you developed any techniques apart from the ones we dealt with that have helped? Any major hurdles crop up or major goofs been found? Have you been operating with the trains or still in the disciplined building stages?

Cheers for now,

Trevor


Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu May 10th, 2018 09:55 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 80th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Trevor, 
Still in the disciplined stages of testing and soldering power / common drop wires and this week the power feed to all points ready for connecting up to SEEP switches - basically been taking my time to try and develop some sort of soldering technique but with the Hakko soldering station it makes things soooo much easier.

Firstly, I performed testing on the West station areas (modules 1 & 2) with all the tracked connected with metal rail joiners and isolating plastic ones as per the plan. With them connected physically I set about creating a mini bus, if you will, using 12 pin electrical connector - half looped for 6 common feeds and half looped for 6 live feeds (which could be multiplied up again using extra individual blocks (see image). The block was then connected to the Gaugemaster. Each length of red or black wire (approx 3ft in length) had a crocodile clip connected at the end - all wire used will be reused at some point in the overall layout so nothing is wasted. Then I set about connecting each clip I needed to various parts of the track to mimic all the connections on the electrical plan you helped me design - this meant I could clip them on or off at will to also mimic isolating various parts (in some cases I had to stop the train and move the clip around to allow the train to continue). Overall it served its purpose and all the connections worked fine and the operation was as I had intended - only found one small part of track not connected which was an oversight on my part at the module joins. So in essence I used your idea but tweaked it a little - also means I can repeat the same thing for the East end modules in due course. 



As I write I have just completed soldering the last point live feed wire and now beginning the drilling of holes in the baseboard for the droppers and point feeds ... then pin down the track in place - I plan to fix the track down more solidly with the adhesive used when ballasting.

So far , so good
Paul    

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

This is topic ID = 15213     Current time is 01:57 am Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  Next Page Last Page    
You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Layout Design, Trackwork & Operation. > Braughing to Standon branch design for N gauge
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin.

Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text,
click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.
Start New Topic


Back to top of page

           
15 Most Recent Topics

Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster.

All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted.
Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission.
The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.    © 2008

                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.