Video Archive         Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Layout Design, Trackwork & Operation. > Braughing to Standon branch design for N gauge To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno Page:    1  2  3  4  5  Next Page Last Page  
Start New Topic Reply Printer Friendly

Braughing to Standon branch design for N gauge - Layout Design, Trackwork & Operation. - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
AuthorPost
 Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2017 01:32 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 1st post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi All


I decided to start a new topic on my proposed layout design for a part of the old Buntingford branch line in Hertfordshire - focus on the section between Braughing & Standon. I already started a discussion with Trevor on the possible layout electrics and controller options but did not want to hog Bob's topic thread on his 'new small layout' where my own discussion came up. I have quoted in the 2 main items of the discussion below so they are captured. 


Padster wrote:
Hi Trevor ... apologies for the delay but have been travelling on business. Short answer is no, not replicating Bob's layout and going for a DC End to End layout single branch line, station and goods yards at either end - 18inch wide & 4ft long sections x 4. The red arrows indicate the direction the branch line will contact with countryside scene for around 6ft. Hopefully the attached layout design gives the idea of each end section. My enquiries were just to get my head around the electrical isolation to allow the main branch to trundle up and down with some goods yard and siding activity as well, as I intend this to be a 2 man operation either at home or at some small exhibitions ... eventually :-)   
 



Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2017 01:34 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 2nd post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

xdford wrote:This was a bit longer than my usual standards but hopefully it will become clear as we go along.  Thanks Bob for your "imprimatur" so Paul here is an interpretation based on your input.

A couple of explanations.

I have divided this section of your plan into 8 blocks (strangely enough numbered 1 to 8) and labelled discreet points on the layout  A through to R using the draftsman's alphabet (No i o or q) 

You said you wanted to be able to run a train on the main line while shunting in the small yard. Presuming that the operator at what will be the other end wants/needs/would like/all of the previous to be able to do the same at the other station. Hence I have used Rotary switches with 12 positions which I have shown 1 wire for each of 2 controllers ( or two sides of a gaugemaster) but you could use more  wires to the other terminals up to 11 controllers.  I used two for clarity purposes.  Throttle 1 would be at 1 o clock on the switch, throttle 2 would be at 2 o clock on the switch and so forth. The orange strokes are the insulated joiners on the "North" side of the diagram.  

I will be using a similar system for some parts of my own layout for block control when I expand to 4 controllers (after the move of course)  but I do use the same system of aligning positions of the clock for setting the stalls on my  turntable area using a single rotary switch.


The black wire is the common return for controllers and joins up to one side of every controller you want coupled while the rotary switch wires go to the individual controllers other side. The side does not strictly speaking matter!

I did make a couple of assumptions such as the point at G is a catch point? The Main line goes from A to H to P while an engine can shunt the yard coming out of the yard to a yard limit at point R?  You may want to stable a loco in siding J to C  or the track from N and upper or D to south of the Signal box (... sorry I forgot to put a label on those points)  so the switch points can act as the isolator switch. Section B to F is individually blocked to allow a little more flexibility with shunting. 

You may want more or less blocks but see if this suits you... and feel free to ask more questions if it is not clear

Cheers from Oz

Trevor

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2017 01:37 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 3rd post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks for this nicely detailed help you have provided and your assumptions were spot on. As I look at this more and also consider the train operators real use cases I have in mind, I think this can be simplified somewhat which would be great. I'll try and capture the revised use case tomorrow and see what you think. 
Again, superb advice and help so far for this relative novice .... hope the move goes as smooth as poss Trevor.

Paul 

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Oct 11th, 2017 12:45 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 4th post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hello Paul,
I was wondering if you were away again or not ... I was updating Hints and Tips this morning (Wednesday) when I realised you had started a new thread.  While it looks complicated the number of blocks to me is about right given a bit of operation scenarios but of course no two operators are going to see their layouts quite the same.

My own layout is (oddly enough) on my website at http://xdford.freeasphost.net/stag06.html as a 4 x 8 ft sheet. Effectively each of the three loops that a train can make is divided into three blocks which I find covers most but not all of the flexibility I would ultimately have liked but no doubt others would require more blocks and some less...

Try and work out your scenarios and we can adapt switching and gaps to suit! And maybe this will help a few others as well!

Cheers

Trevor

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2017 01:35 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 5th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Been pretty busy with work, some travel and young baby grandson but managed to find time to start the baseboard modules with 2 complete, using 9mm plywood for the top base,sides & ends with 6mm plywood cross braces for 
strength and stop any twisting. 4 ft long by 16in width, two more to complete this coming weekend.




Was think of using these fasteners and dowel kits below (£7 or cheaper) for connecting the modules in the garage or at smaller exhibitions ... anyone have experience of these or recommend anything better?



Also got some left over Colron Danish Oil to treat the plywood making it water and damp resistant which I think will be a good idea as it will be storage in the garage over winter times ... although it is dry.

Next stop ... selecting track (thinking Peco 55 or maybe 80) templates and marking up the modules for laying.

Paul   

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2017 04:48 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 6th post
The Q
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Mar 9th, 2016
Location: Somewhere In Norfolk, Or Maybe Scotland, United Kingdom
Posts: 307
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides


I prefer these due to their adjustability, adjustable toggle catches,
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rhinocoeu-Metal-Toggle-Adjustable-Cabinet/dp/B072B9YHVS/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&qid=1509021935&sr=8-27&keywords=adjustable+toggle+catches



____________________
Now finally starting a model railway...
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2017 11:40 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 7th post
col.stephens
Full Member
 

Joined: Tue Feb 7th, 2012
Location: Kent, United Kingdom
Posts: 2038
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

What a brilliant idea!


Terry

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2017 11:54 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 8th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Agree ... adjustable are a great idea ... thanks for the tip

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri Oct 27th, 2017 12:26 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 9th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

xdford wrote: Hello Paul,
I was wondering if you were away again or not ... I was updating Hints and Tips this morning (Wednesday) when I realised you had started a new thread.  While it looks complicated the number of blocks to me is about right given a bit of operation scenarios but of course no two operators are going to see their layouts quite the same.

My own layout is (oddly enough) on my website at http://xdford.freeasphost.net/stag06.html as a 4 x 8 ft sheet. Effectively each of the three loops that a train can make is divided into three blocks which I find covers most but not all of the flexibility I would ultimately have liked but no doubt others would require more blocks and some less...

Try and work out your scenarios and we can adapt switching and gaps to suit! And maybe this will help a few others as well!

Cheers
Trevor

Hi Trevor. As mentioned in my other post on the module building I did get busy again but did not forget your great advice and thoughts and thanks for the sharing the link which I checked with interest. I did as you suggested and tried to work out the probable scenarios which I have tried to describe in visual form with written descriptions too.



The maximum locos running at any given time will be 3 (assuming I have 2 colleagues available). 1 shunting in the red area, 1 shunting in the green area and the remaining one up and down the blue branch line. At times the red shunting will join the branch line to shunt to the south side, where the branch line train will be isolated in the 'Branch station area' top image or it will be up at the other end of the line in the station loop.It will also need to allow for the branch train to be isolated in the station area or the station loop to allow the shunter to move freight up and down the branch to either shunting yards.
I intend to use 1 power transformer for each colour area and I guess another for the points .. perhaps dual power transformers?? Also thinking of 3 Gaugemaster walkabout controllers.

If I'm running things alone at home or even at an event then of course only one train will be in operation at any given time as I move the branch train along to the other station, do some red area shunting operation and then bring the branch train back up ... and perform more green area shunting operation there .. or variations of. 

Probably sounds a little simplistic compared to many other layouts but I want a slow sleepy, branch line that really existing locally to me looking aged about 2 years before its closure ... well thats the plan.

To me it feels like the number of blocks you described could still be valid but for the more simplified operation I described possible the block count, gaps and switching could also be simplified but I will bow to you greater experience of such things. 
Thanks for any input and advice you can offer ... I'm sure it wont be the last time :-)

Paul.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat Oct 28th, 2017 04:17 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 10th post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hello Paul,
You could get by with one switch with two selection areas to allow a train to run seamlessly from one station and have a "one engine in steam policy" so that only one engine is actually moving on the module at a time.  This may not be a bad idea as you have relatively limited yard space and a shunter would have to block the main line to do anything in the upper yard. There is a lot to be said for a one brain/one train mode of operation. Alternatively the blocks could  be handled with 4 blocks to enable totally independent shunting

The only issue would be relying on points for conductivity, which from my experience is not the best idea. My fiddle yard/ Reginald Bridge area is powered from the mainline block for the present using points as isolators!

Are you planning on your passenger trains to be loco hauled or auto-train style? If you want such a passenger train, it will need to "sit"at the station for a while so an isolator switch allowing a loco heading "west bound" to be turned off or  "stabled" so a shunter can take the coaches away or the "return engine" can couple up and release the inbound engine when its train departs east bound.

Let us know... appropriate diagram will be forthcoming!

Cheers

Trevor

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun Oct 29th, 2017 05:52 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 11th post
Marty
Enjoying the Journey


Joined: Sun Oct 14th, 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Posts: 5853
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

It’s a fairly easy task to modify the n gauge points to improve conductivity and frog polarity. I’ve done it on Newcastle Emlyn and am so pleased with the improved running that I’m going to have to go back to my other station and rewire all the points in the same manner.
Although I do have the ability to switch my layout into a round roundly via a cross over my philosophy is similar to yours in that it is a single line branch with shunting opportunities at stations, yards and lineside industries.

I’m running mine on two controllers, with multiple blocks and isolation sections. There will be opportunities for 3 operators, two drivers and one Signalman. Getting 3 people into my layout room however is another matter! They had better be friendly.

Good ideas here and with Trevor’s expert help you’ll get a robust plan in no time.

Keep it coming.

Marty



____________________
Marty
N Gauge, GWR West Wales
Newcastle Emlyn Layout.
Newcastle Emlyn Station is "Under construction"
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun Oct 29th, 2017 11:57 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 12th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

xdford wrote:
Are you planning on your passenger trains to be loco hauled or auto-train style? If you want such a passenger train, it will need to "sit"at the station for a while so an isolator switch allowing a loco heading "west bound" to be turned off or  "stabled" so a shunter can take the coaches away or the "return engine" can couple up and release the inbound engine when its train departs east bound.

Let us know... appropriate diagram will be forthcoming!

Cheers

Trevor

Hi Trevor, 
Brilliant  advice and thoughts, you guys really rock helping as you do and this site is amazing for the novice to see, learn and gain experience ,.... whilst having fun and enjoyment which is what its all about.

As for your question, let me expand a little which I should have done previously. The branch passenger train will be a DMU which was used for the last 5 years on the real line before the Beeching closure - originals were 125 Class Derby 3 coach but these are not avail yet in n gauge so I settle for 108 Class which is very close. 
The yard / siding movements will be Class 80 diesel shunters x 2. As such the shunters will only move around freight. Hope that helps a little more .. photos below of the current rolling stock. 


Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun Oct 29th, 2017 11:59 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 13th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Thanks Marty for the additional advice and ideas - really appreciated and I'll keep plugging away during the short days and long nights to emulate what you have achieve on your layout .. very impressive.
cheers
Paul

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Oct 30th, 2017 04:00 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 14th post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides



Hello Paul,

This is a much simplified switching diagram but given the size available, it should work OK. 

The block switch to the right is to give you seamless passage between two controllers and the upcoming future module to the East or Right of the present module for your railcar and I assume you will run goods trains between the two stations.  

The other two switches will be just used as on/off modes.  By having the insulator at point C, you can isolate your rail motor between A and C but you can also run a loco hauled passenger train in and bring a shunter or returning engine in to remove the consist and/or return the other way.

You can be busy shunting the whole yard until the rail motor is "due" and then isolate the shunter in the yard at "D" until the arrival and the head shunt on the main is clear, when the railmotor is isolated and the shunting can continue.  If the Shunter is between B and F,  the points at F will isolate the shunter anyway until the line is clear.

I am not that familiar with Bachmann N scale trains but I presume that the rail motor has 1 powered car and 2 "trailers" similar to the older Triang sets in OO?  That would mean that the powered car could face "West" and the insulated section  "A-C" could be a bit shorter. 

Hopefully that will ease any wiring concerns you may have had and a few others can learn from it as well!

Without trying to tell you how to build your railway, I am thinking that you should consider changing the orientation of your yard in the future module so that it is reversed and coming off the main at the left of the the entrance ... have a think about it if it enhances your idea of operations

Regards from Oz

Trevor

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2017 03:02 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 15th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Trevor
Here's how the whole section of the branch i'm building looks like to module format - 4ft lengths each one..
 

Based on your thought that maybe the east station and its yard could be altered to aid operation, you have a valid point - my only resistance is I want the model to depict with best accuracy how this stretch on the line looked in real life. That said, I have made some point alterations which may help a little at least - see below where the points have been shifted to a new position from the old one (marked with an 'x')

 

I'm assuming I can follow a very similar block and switching setup on this section that you depicted on the previous section ... and would you have any photo images of the types of block switches I should be considering - I need to get this stuff visually in my head and then I'll be fine.... I think :-) !!

Thanks as before for the valuable hints and help.

Paul

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2017 03:32 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 16th post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hello Paul,
The switches I would suggest using are shown on  http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=9970&forum_id=21&page=1 on Ken's switchboard ... we are going to the new house today so time is limited.  There are other versions of the same thing which I will send you!


I have a couple of other ideas that would help you maintain your prototypes integrity with the yard which I will illustrate when we get back here tonight... 

Cheers

Trevor

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2017 12:44 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 17th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

thanks Trevor and no rush, you must be very busy with the move process and have a thousand other things to do :-) Hope it goes well.

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2017 12:56 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 18th post
Padster
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Aug 23rd, 2017
Location: Roydon, Essex., United Kingdom
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

The link to Coombe Hinton is excellent to give good ideas ... i had actually seen that thread before but forgot - doh!!
Would you know what product Ken used to create the station platform base - see photos about 6 replies down in his thread?
Paul

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2017 01:30 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 19th post
Ken
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 21st, 2007
Location: Okehampton, Devon., United Kingdom
Posts: 1310
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I used plywood 10mm thick Paul (or 7mm plus 3mm of hardboard glued together will also suffice) and fixed it down with a couple of countersunk screws.   Very stable with no warping of any kind.


Ken.



____________________
'It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that Swing'
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2017 01:44 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 20th post
xdford
Member
 

Joined: Tue Aug 11th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2644
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hello Paul,
I cannot draw the full thing but if you change your track plan angles, you should  be able to fit in a slightly better length head shunt track (... I know - it is the "up" track on a double track line... ) to wit (although it is exaggerated)...



so with a little shortening of the platform roads, the upper track of the pair of tracks in the bottom right hand corner would perhaps be long enough for an 08 and a few four wheelers off the branch which is I would think typical of the traffic...
 
Is there a plan for a "fiddle yard" to the right at all? That would indeed increase your operating possibilities logarithmically ... then again we would all like more space!

Cheers

Trevor

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

This is topic ID = 15213     Current time is 04:45 am Page:    1  2  3  4  5  Next Page Last Page    
You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Layout Design, Trackwork & Operation. > Braughing to Standon branch design for N gauge
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin.

Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text,
click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.
Start New Topic


Back to top of page

           
15 Most Recent Topics

Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster.

All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted.
Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission.
The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.    © 2008

                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.