Video Archive         Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Electrics - DCC > Electro DCC To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno
Start New Topic Reply Printer Friendly

Electro DCC - Electrics - DCC - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
AuthorPost
 Posted: Thu May 18th, 2017 01:24 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 1st post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 1287
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi All.  Out of the blue, something I thought would never happen? I received an email from Kernow MRC.My new loco is in the post, alas I never stuck with an "Earlier Plan" and have nowhere to do it justice , but I will one day. Problem being is it DCC ready or DCC fitted? I phoned Kernow straight away, and was assured that it was, but, what if when I receive the loco without removing the body from the chassis how can I be certain? And if I run on the wrong current ? Or whatever? Will that burn out the motor? As I don't want to cause any damage after waiting so long, for the "Late Arrival". Please advise, all the best. Kevin

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu May 18th, 2017 03:12 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 2nd post
BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 1778
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

If it's DCC ready it will have a blanking plug that allows it to run on DC, but not DCC. If it's equipped with a decoder it will run on DCC and should run on DC unless the decoder has been configured to DCC only. Rather than doing the dangerous "nasty humming" test with DCC, take the body off when it arrives and have a look. If it

Get Kernow to send you an email with details of what you ordered and what decoder (if any) has been fitted. The other way is to check what you think ordered against the Kernow online catalog, and the price you are going to pay. DCC equipped normally means £80-100 more than DCC ready.

I got a Bachmann 'doodlebug' (diesel electric passenger/mail car) cheap recently, first test was to run it on DC. Dead on arrival. Off with the body shell (PITA), and low and behold, it had an NCE decoder already installed by the previous owner. Tried it on DCC, purrrfect. Checked the CVs, DCC only had been enabled. I left it as is, as I don't run anything on DC.

I've said this before, anybody running DCC needs a DC power/controller and a foot or so of isolated track as part of the tool kit.

Nigel



____________________
©Nigel C. Phillips
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu May 18th, 2017 03:44 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 3rd post
Brossard
Member


Joined: Sat Jul 23rd, 2011
Location: Brossard, Quebec Canada
Posts: 2431
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I went to Kernow to have a look.  Several versions that I can see, all with the same price.  The blurb says 21 pin socket and I read this as DCC Ready.  If you ordered DCC decoder installation that should be on the invoice I reckon.

Looks like Hattons haven't got theirs yet.  In their blurb, DCC On board is 24 pounds extra and DCC Sound (Olivias) is 145 pounds extra :shock:.  You're probably paying quite a bit for install.

Lots of clues Kevin.

John



____________________
John

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu May 18th, 2017 03:54 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 4th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 1287
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.  Thank you.  It was the PITA job of removing the bodyshell that I wanted to avoid. And the ruination of, I think a long awaited Dave Jones class 71 Electric Loco ( ordered in 2015) @ £129.00.I will email them again before I risk all. As it happens when the need arises I hook up my "entry level Bachmann " DC controller for test purposes.   All the best. Kevin

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu May 18th, 2017 09:52 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 5th post
RFS
Full Member
 

Joined: Fri Dec 28th, 2012
Location: Derby, United Kingdom
Posts: 192
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

It's DCC ready with a 21-pin socket.  You will need a decoder with 5 function outputs to work all the lights -



F0 - front and rear markers (counts as two functions)

F1 - cab lights end #1

F2 - cab lights end #2

F3 - head code blinds



Don't use an 8pin decoder on an 8/21 converter plug because you won't have F2 or F3.

(Edited to say you need a 5-function decoder. )




____________________
Robert
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri May 19th, 2017 05:21 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 6th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 1287
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Robert.  Thank you for your reply.  My problem is that I  ordered this Loco (Dave Jones class 71) in 2015,and out of the blue I received the email, telling me it is in the post. Then my phonecall to Kernow asking about the Decoder , did not answer my question and I have emailed Kernow again explaining my position and asking them to confirm the state of the Loco ( fitted or ready,) not "it will be alright" that answer was too vague.
   All the best. Kevin

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri May 19th, 2017 05:47 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 7th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 1287
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi John.   Thank you for your reply. This is not my first Dave Jones Loco , when I purchased the 02 0-6-0 that was also sent without having a Decoder fitted. On that occasion it was simple, I phoned them and their response was different , "you should of requested the Decoder and we would have fitted it, but it is simple it goes into the smokebox, just remove the door and fit it". I could go along with that and the 02 was simple, it is the bodyshell removal and possible damage PITA job I don't like. That is a good polnt about the invoice, having said that, the of £129.00 was for the Loco plus delivery, therefore I can assume only that the Decoder is extra. I will have to wait and see.   All the best. Kevin

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri May 19th, 2017 05:19 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 8th post
RFS
Full Member
 

Joined: Fri Dec 28th, 2012
Location: Derby, United Kingdom
Posts: 192
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Just corrected my post regarding DCC decoder: you need one with a minimum of 5 function outputs.  Most 21-pin decoders generally available only have 4, so if you fit one of these the head code blinds will not be illuminated. 
  
 
Mine is fitted with a Lenz Silver 21-pin decoder and all the lights work. 



____________________
Robert
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri May 19th, 2017 05:35 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 9th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 1287
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Robert. Thank you . I read that it is easy to fit a Decoder in the class 71, Speaker and Crew, i don't think much about of the idea , fitting " Blank Faced train crews". Could you give me the "heads up on electric Loco sound" and is it worthwhile? With all the lights , whistles and all.  All the best. Kevin

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri May 19th, 2017 06:24 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 10th post
RFS
Full Member
 

Joined: Fri Dec 28th, 2012
Location: Derby, United Kingdom
Posts: 192
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Sorry but I don't use sound on any of my locos so I can't advise.  However there's plenty of space inside for the speaker.

 
See http://djmodels.co.uk/?page_id=253



____________________
Robert
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Fri May 19th, 2017 06:36 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 11th post
Brossard
Member


Joined: Sat Jul 23rd, 2011
Location: Brossard, Quebec Canada
Posts: 2431
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I see a Class 71 Loksound V4 decoder here:  http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/olivias-trains-sound-function-sheets/olivias-class-71-sound-functions/

I couldn't anything at Howes or Digitrains, but you should ask.

This does add an interesting dimension to the model.  Most decoders are programmed to let you drive in a more realistic way than the usual jackrabbit starts and stops I so frequently see.  :roll:

John



____________________
John

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat May 20th, 2017 12:23 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 12th post
SRman
Member


Joined: Sat Jan 10th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2205
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Legomanbiffo sound on ESU LokSound decoders from DC Kits is very good. There is a YouTube clip of a Hornby class 71 here: .

The Hornby model does not have much room for speakers, whereas the DJM one does.



____________________
Jeff Lynn,
Amateur layabout, Professional Lurker, Thread hijacker extraordinaire
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat May 20th, 2017 12:29 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 13th post
SRman
Member


Joined: Sat Jan 10th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2205
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Brossard wrote: I see a Class 71 Loksound V4 decoder here:  http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/olivias-trains-sound-function-sheets/olivias-class-71-sound-functions/

I couldn't anything at Howes or Digitrains, but you should ask.

This does add an interesting dimension to the model.  Most decoders are programmed to let you drive in a more realistic way than the usual jackrabbit starts and stops I so frequently see.  :roll:

John
 Because I have so many sound locomotives and got used to driving them with all the built-in delays and gentle acceleration and braking, I tend to set all of my decoders with high inertia/momentum settings. As a starting point, I usually set CV3 (acceleration) at 25 and CV4 (braking) at 18, but then tweak those settings to suit the individual locomotive/unit and decoder combination.

I agree wholeheartedly that the sound and driving characteristics add a whole new dimension to the driving experience.



____________________
Jeff Lynn,
Amateur layabout, Professional Lurker, Thread hijacker extraordinaire
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat May 20th, 2017 03:51 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 14th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 1287
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Jeff.   I am in receipt of my DJ Models class 71 today, but after reading your thread, I don't know what I have let myself infor ? Special driving skills? You said, what are they all about? As yet I haven't either purchased a Decoder nor a speaker, I never gave sound in electric Loco's a second thought . Steam yes, Thumper most definitely .Please advise, all the best. Kevin

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sat May 20th, 2017 03:58 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 15th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 1287
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi John.   After reading what Jeff had to say about the new DJ Models class 71 I am going resist the temptation to run it, not as though I am able to give it a good run out at the time of writing.   All the best. Kevin

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun May 21st, 2017 01:50 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 16th post
SRman
Member


Joined: Sat Jan 10th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2205
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Don't panic!

What I meant about special driving skills is that with sound locos (and, indeed, all of my own DCC locos), you have to learn to anticipate a bit because of the high inertia/momentum settings. If you want to stop at point A, you have to slow down quite a bit earlier because the model is simulating the characteristics of the real thing. Turning the controller to zero still means the train will continue on for some distance, coming to a gradual halt.

With the NCE, if you misjudge a stop, you can hit the red button to stop almost instantly.

Also, all of the settings can be altered by simply reprogramming CVs 3 and 4, so you can set whatever inertia and momentum you feel comfortable with. Personally, I like the challenge of driving more like the real things where one has to learn the characteristics of what one is driving.

The sound projects are generally set up to behave in a more realistic way with the high momentum and inertia; opening the throttle right up, the diesel engine or traction motor blowers will spool up, then the brakes will release, then the train will move slowly off. Moving the throttle setting down a notch or two will allow steam engines to stop chuffing and go into coasting mode (usually clanking of rods, etc.), diesels to throttle down to idle, and electrics to kill the traction motor blowers. Winding the throttle up a little gets the chuffs, diesel thrash or traction motor fans going again.

Of course, one can also simply turn the sounds off altogether (usually F1 for British sound projects) and just enjoy silent running.



____________________
Jeff Lynn,
Amateur layabout, Professional Lurker, Thread hijacker extraordinaire
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun May 21st, 2017 06:25 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 17th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 1287
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Jeff.  Thank you.  You make it sound so easy, I haven't " got a handle" on either changing the CV's nor an understanding on momentum yet. My 0-6-0 Diesel Shunter, that Paul Chetter did the sound project on, really moves at a graceful prototypical pace, whereas my new 64xx seems to want to go straight into top speed, mind you, I haven't got sound on the 64xx as like the M7, limited speaker space would be too much of a challenge.to do a sound job. Even the real Mallard didn't have a start up speed to equal my 64xx the way it is now. That is one bad thing that I have noticed on some YouTube videos, and I don't want. And my understanding of emergency stopping was legendary , amongst the Guards that I worked with, when I was drinking a cup of tea? Up until, seeing the video on the class 71, I never really considered a sound job to be worthwhile on Electric locos or EMU's , and after all I thought that's what DCC is all about, especially the "Thumpers".     All the best. Kevin

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon May 22nd, 2017 09:02 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 18th post
SRman
Member


Joined: Sat Jan 10th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2205
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Funny you should mention Thumpers! At the request of my friend PCM from RMweb, I took my Dapol class 73 with legomanbiffo sound to the BRMA meeting we had on Saturday. I also took my Thumper unit 1115 with 'bif's sound along for the comparison - both acquitted themselves well, although I do have to improve the Dapol 73's electrical pickups a bit. I recently fitted a bass enhanced speaker in parallel with a sugar cube speaker (both of 8 ohm impedance) to improve the sound quality compared to the original single round 23mm 4 ohm speaker I had installed temporarily.

My first DJM class 71, E5003, arrived today; it was waiting for me when I got home from work. I have been running it on the rolling road on DC, and as soon as I finish this posting, I'll be fitting the ESU LokSound decoder I have had reserved for it. This has the legomanbiffo sound installed already, but I'll have to experiment with speakers again.



____________________
Jeff Lynn,
Amateur layabout, Professional Lurker, Thread hijacker extraordinaire
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon May 22nd, 2017 12:11 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 19th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 1287
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Jeff.  Thank you for your reply. I don't know whether to run mine up and down or get some set track and do a Roundy Roundy , I have got a basic Bachmann DC controller. And every time I buy a Loco I forget. I do have
a short end to end I could try it on but that is only eleven foot. There has been a mention of oiling the Loco on a video.
Please le me have your thoughts on it.    Kevin

Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon May 22nd, 2017 12:54 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 20th post
SRman
Member


Joined: Sat Jan 10th, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2205
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I added a spot of oil to each of the oiling holes before running mine, seeing as Dave Jones suggests this in the instruction leaflets. I wouldn't have thought it necessary for a model fresh out of the factory, but it certainly won't do any harm, as long as one doesn't over-oil it.

If you look back to the very first few posts on my Newton Broadway layout thread, you'll see that I like to get something running just to keep my interest sparked, even if it is only a temporary track. There is series of photos of our late Toby watching the first locomotive (a class 33) trundling back and forth along a stretch of track with temporary leads attached with crocodile clips. The length of the run was less than 10 feet, using three lengths of flexible track.

Eventually, of course, I got the Underground tracks running with a complete double-track circuit. I like being able to run trains continuously, but I have to say I have also had fun with small end to end shunting layouts too.



____________________
Jeff Lynn,
Amateur layabout, Professional Lurker, Thread hijacker extraordinaire
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

This is topic ID = 14972     Current time is 07:01 am  
You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Electrics - DCC > Electro DCC
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin.

Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text,
click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.
Start New Topic


Back to top of page

           
15 Most Recent Topics

Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster.

All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted.
Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission.
The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.    © 2008

                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.