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 Posted: Thu Mar 30th, 2017 10:23 am
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Petermac
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Could be you'd have to collect it from a show somewhere Ed.

On the other hand, you could always stay in the steam era ....................................................... :cheers



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 Posted: Thu Mar 30th, 2017 10:41 am
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Ed
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Can't walk very far Peter, back problems.

There was a fairly local small exhibition at the beginning of the month and although I could have got there, I wouldn't be able to walk round without having to keep sitting down.

Local model shop is mainly 'War Hammer' type games shop stuff, although I did manage to get some styrene tube there once. Mind you, it wasn't the actual size I wanted so I ended up getting some on fleabay.

Much as I like steam, one of the main reasons for changing Latton Fields to 'modern era', was to run oil cans which have more pick-ups spaced further apart.

Got to say I've had far less running problems since changing, apart from a Class 08, which is basically and 0-6-0.


Ed






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 Posted: Thu Mar 30th, 2017 01:03 pm
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wahiba
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Expo sell wire:

https://www.expotools.com/cgi-bin/sh000005.pl?WD=wire%20piano&PN=0.5m-Piano-Wire-PW1XM.html#SID=130

As they encourage customers to use local shops rather than mail order then you need a local stockists. They are not always model shops. In Keighley it is the local small tool shop who carries it along with a range of other materials and tools.

i think the Expo site lists stockists so cannot be too difficult to find one. If it is not in stock delivery to the shop is usually pretty quick.




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 Posted: Thu Mar 30th, 2017 03:28 pm
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Ed
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Looks like my nearest stockist is Chelmsford, thanks David :thumbs



Ed








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 Posted: Fri Mar 31st, 2017 06:59 am
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Ed
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Partial result yesterday afternoon.

In the past I've soldered droppers to old steel rails without too much of a problem and then I realised I was trying to solder the end of a 0.5mm piece of wire to another at right angles, which doesn't exactly give a lot of surface for the solder to adhere to.

Then I remembered this old article.

http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/other/catenery_article.php

Scroll down a bit and it mentions "verticals shaped like staples".

Obviously a greater contact area between the wires and the dropper, so more chance of a decent soldered joint.

et voila ....



Staples I've used are far too big, but I've proved piano wire solders ok with a 25 watt iron and rosin core solder.

Just got to source and try some No 10 staples, or make some staple shaped droppers from appropriate wire.

Phew :Happy




Ed





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 Posted: Fri Mar 31st, 2017 10:11 am
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Petermac
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You could always have a look at how the tram boys do it Ed.  There are brass etches specially for attaching overheads (called "ears") although they do use a different system of hanging it.

Have a look here:  http://www.themodeltramshop.com



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 Posted: Fri Mar 31st, 2017 11:15 am
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Ed
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Different ball game Peter.

http://www.rail3d.info/wiki/howto/overviewofohlesystems.aspx?Lang=EN#toc3



Ed



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 Posted: Fri Mar 31st, 2017 11:16 am
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Ed,have you tried guitar strings? Ihave used it in the past and goes straight ok and solders no p[robs,
Owen :thumbs :) :cool:



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 Posted: Fri Mar 31st, 2017 11:31 am
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Ed
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Hi Owen

(Hope your OK, haven't seen you posting for a while)

Guitar strings are not dissimilar from coiled piano wire in that they need to be tensioned to be straight.

I had a look at a couple I had lying around. Think the right size was a G, about 0.4mm

I know they have been used for Catenary, but in systems where they are soldered to the masts, or have weights attached.



Ed




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 Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2017 06:51 am
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Ed
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Tried making some staple shaped bits from piano wire, but the 'soldering not taking' problem just re-occurred.

Some No 10 staples turned up yesterday.



You can see the burn marks on the jig so considering these two bits of piano wire have suffered a bit, I don't think it's turned out too bad.

Once cleaned up a bit more and painted I think piano wire is going to be a viable and cheaper option to Dapol's own wires, so I'm quite happy with that.


Ed







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 Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2017 06:57 am
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MaxSouthOz
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The problem is that ferrous metal doesn't solder very well.

Nickel Silver, so called, will solder very well.

If I were doing it, I'd be using a noble metal, like brass.  That solders very well.

Just sayin'



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 Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2017 07:34 am
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Ed
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From all the stuff I've read Max (a lot on RMweb), steel is stronger than brass and holds it's shape better.

A lot of people seem to have managed to get hold of copper or brass coated steel, but I think that was for tensioned systems and/or where the wires are soldered to the masts.

Brass wire from EE has the same silly postage charges as Nickel Silver, which is why I discounted it.

I suspect Dapol's wires are steel as your really just hanging ridged sections of wires, hooked over plastic masts.

It's a compromise, as you obviously can't run with the pantograph pushing up on the wires. You either have to run with the pantograph down (yuk), or at a fixed height as I have.




Ed




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 Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2017 08:42 am
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MaxSouthOz
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I've got my panto up against the wire.  It's steel wire under tension with the poles just adjacent to it.

Admittedly, it's only a short run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVGOpEiZwNY




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 Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2017 11:56 am
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Ed
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Looks good Max :thumbs

How are the wires attached to the poles?

Just been looking at the Peco 'Shows You How' booklet, and on their system the wires are 0.5mm copper plated steel.

Their wires are soldered to the masts, but interesting at the end it says "Alternatively it is possible to set loco pantographs at a fixed operating height with no requirement to keep in contact with the wire".

I suppose if your pantographs are in contact with the wire it is more important to have the wire staggered as in the prototype, or it is possible to wear a  mark or groove in the pantograph.


Ed



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 Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2017 12:14 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, Ed.  That's the trick.  The wires aren't attached to the poles.  The wire is high tensile fencing wire, pulled taut with a turnbuckle.

It's not realistic in any way - just a four foot long track to show off the tram with my home cooked sound files.  I recorded the sounds from the actual full sized tram.

The blue flashes are very prototypical to the H class trams.  There is a HI blue LED attached to the pantograph, and a reed switch underneath the tram.  A neodymium magnet between the rails adjacent to each pole, triggers the flash.

Totally useless for your purposes, Ed - but an ideal opportunity for me to show off.  :lol:
You may have your thread back now.  :mutley



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 Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2017 12:56 pm
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Ed
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Dave (Westcoast) uses panflash on his layouts.

http://www.westcoastminiatures.com/panflash.html

Think this thread is more or less finished Max, I started out by how asking to straighten coiled piano wire and the answer is ...........................................



























................... buy straight wire :lol:




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