Video Archive         Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Electrics - DCC > Electrics DCC To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3   
Start New Topic Reply Printer Friendly

Electrics DCC - Electrics - DCC - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
AuthorPost
 Posted: Wed Nov 30th, 2016 06:39 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 41st post
The Q
Full Member
 

Joined: Wed Mar 9th, 2016
Location: Somewhere In Norfolk, Or Maybe Scotland, United Kingdom
Posts: 377
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Operationally your choice of wire should work quite well, the electrons don't care whether the wire is for DC or DCC, only that the wire is big enough to get through, which it is.

Of course if your lighting wire is old then it will be Red and Black, on modern wiring Red is replaced by Brown and Black By Blue but again the electrons don't care. ( it's an internatinal standardisation thing that caused the colours to change!!)

I do prefer soldered connections for wiring and personnally hate those suitcase connectors, I also hate working under baseboards, which is why my wiring is on the back of the back scene.



____________________
Now I've finally started a model railway...I've inherited another...
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 30th, 2016 06:55 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 42nd post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi John.   Thank you again the cold weather has really got to my head, I will have to write all this down.  Kevin



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Nov 30th, 2016 08:33 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 43rd post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi John.   Halfway through thanking you to the info, I must have accidentally touched the screen, and my message disappeared. But where? I do not know. Anyway thank you again, I will look at that blog.  all the best. Kevin



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2016 12:57 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 44th post
BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3169
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

I've been following your thread with interest (and keeping quiet for a change). Some "bin there dun that" comments in no particular order:

1. Already stated, cut the web and move the sleepers out of the way. One of the arguments for attaching droppers before gluing the track down. It's a tad difficult afterwards. It can be done by not gluing the sleepers and cutting the web where you want the dropper, but that to me begs the question "why bother"...

2. Cover the adjacent sleepers with wet kitchen towel. It won't stop a hot rail from melting the sleeper, it will stop a hot iron from making moon craters.

3. You want to limit how far solder will go. This is an issue with liquid (organic fluxes). Use a soft pencil (2B-8B) and mark the limits. Solder will not flow onto the graphite.

4. Conventional wisdom says to attach droppers between sleepers. Drilling through the sleepers is not necessary if you attach the droppers before laying track. The only time I would go though sleepers is with copper-clad ones, which has the advantage that the dropper can be attached to the copper-clad rather than the rail.

5. Attaching solid copper droppers to the outside web of the rail involves 2-4 bends, attaching it to the bottom of the web, which is a lot neater and unobtrusive, needs one bend. Tin the end, dab of flux with the paint brush, one touch of the iron and it's job done! This works with stranded wire, tinning it first makes it bendable and it stays in shape.

6. Dropper wire is conventionally 26ga to 22ga, 0.4mm-0.65mm diameter. Anything smaller can act like toaster wire. It may pass the current, there is something called resistance to take into account.

7. Use whatever colors make sense to you. Just attach labels so you know what is what.

8. Don't use one bus for multiple tracks (as in a double track roundy-roundy). Use 2 buses (or more as required) appropriately color-coded, and use some sort of block protection electronics so that a short on one bus doesn't affect the entire layout.

9. Scotch-Lock (suitcase) connectors only work with fairly similar diameter wires. Using 10ga bus wire (2.6mm diameter) and 26ga dropper wire (0.4mm diameter) does not work well as the diameter of the large wire prevents a decent bite in to the smaller diameter wire. The result is a poor connection that will often fail intermittently with temperature (expansion/contraction) changes. Solid copper bus wire and stranded wire droppers have another issue, the blade in the Scotch-Lock connector will shear the wires rather than bite them. Any jiggling and they loose contact with the blade. They come in different size ranges, choose very carefully. We've been through the pros and cons of these connectors over the years in this forum, my experience to date is generally positive, although they can be unreliable if used incorrectly. They don't like humidity changes, I think mine made 8 years because they were always in a humidity-controlled environment. As much as I like them, solder and terminal blocks are more reliable, and a lot less expensive.

10. Soldering copper drop wires to brass track (aka nickel silver) doesn't require a whole range of fluxes. I use an organic flux that leaves no noxious residue and doesn't require an extensive wash afterwards. How you do that with laid track beats me. Make sure the metals are clean, oxide-free and grease-free. Nickel silver rail oxidizes, it's a light yellow color. Stripped wire will have a light coat of whatever was in the plastic. My sequence is 90% IPA, #800 emery, 90% IPA. Keep fingers away from where you want to solder, there is enough oil on them to create a cold solder joint. Especially after a fish supper.

11. Keep away from rosin-cored or rosin-flux. I also use lead-tin solder, not the cadmium variety. It flows better (it goes from the solid to liquid phase in a short temperature range, cadmium-containing ones seem to have a wider temperature range, go through a "pasty" stage and in my experience require a hotter iron and longer dwell time).

12. Be careful what you watch on YouTube, one man's meat is another man's poison. And the devil is in the detail. Practice makes perfect, watching somebody else doing it "their way" maybe...not so perfect.

BTW, I use a 6mm/1/4" general purpose pointy tip on the iron. Seems to work OK. "Hot and quick does the trick" approach. My iron has an adjustable output, for soldering droppers I use it at 25W-30W and 188 solder.

Nigel






____________________
©Nigel C. Phillips
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2016 01:31 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 45th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel. Thank you, there is one argument (for me) for ballasting the track first, because I was using a "thicker wire"I needed to drill a bigger hole, which was one of my reasons fo this thread. And the drill was responsible for dislodging the track. When I made the test track, I soldered the wire to the underside of the rail.
My other soldering iron is a 15 watt version of the 25 watt iron. Which has a finer tip, and may have been better if I stuck with it?   all the best. Kevin



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2016 08:35 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 46th post
BCDR
Moderator


Joined: Sat Oct 19th, 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia USA
Posts: 3169
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Kevin,

It takes a bit more planning, but I recon soldering up the droppers (on the bottom or the outside web) drilling the holes and then gluing the track is the best way to proceed. Needs precise measurements though to make sure the holes are in the right space. It helps if the droppers are staggered by a couple of sleepers.

One thing you get with a decent sized tip is good heat transfer. I'd rather use a 1/4" tip rather than the smaller 1/8" tip for soldering up droppers. I keep the small tip for finicky jobs like soldering wires back on decoders or 8-pin sockets, making wipers or attaching resistors to vero board. Just takes a bit of practice to use the larger tip without damaging sleepers.

Nigel




____________________
©Nigel C. Phillips
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2016 11:46 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 47th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Nigel.  Thank you , when I mentioned the test track, that is why I was successful , as it was a single track I drilled the holes to suit the droppers. But my soldering "skill"? seems to be deserting me. And when I said dislodging the track that was important , because after getting the WIT point control working the track was only pinned down.And because I used heavier wire it was necessary to use a bigger drill causing the point/turnout sleepers to be pushed off the planned route. But we live and learn? Hopefully.     all the best. Kevin



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Aug 8th, 2017 12:36 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 48th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ted.  I have been reading "old threads" and please excuse my ignorance . But what are "Block Detectors"????And what is their purpose ?? It is a good idea to have the droppers longer than needed though.
     All the best. Kevin



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Aug 8th, 2017 12:50 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 49th post
Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Kevin,by Googling "Block Detectors"

http://www.dccwiki.com/Block_detection



____________________
Ron
NCE DCC ; 00 scale UK outline.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Aug 8th, 2017 01:54 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 50th post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ron.  Thank you for your reply.  I will have to "Bank" that idea for one day in the future. My puzzle two planks at            48 inches by 9 inches or 48 inches by 14 inches are not that that complicated. Apart from the fact that I keep forgetting to change the points, which is easy to do without interlocking .  All the best. Kevin



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Aug 8th, 2017 05:05 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 51st post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Ron.   I can understand that if a Loco is drawing power then block detection has got something to detect, but, if there is a wagon or rake of wagons or carriages that are not drawing power? Where is the attraction??Real or prototypical Railways have a power source, which leaves the running rails for track circuits, where most model railways pick up their current from the running rails.    All the best. Kevin



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Aug 8th, 2017 06:48 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 52nd post
Sol
A modelling Moderator.


Joined: Mon Nov 28th, 2011
Location: Evanston Gardens, South Aust, Australia
Posts: 3974
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Other rolling stock then Kevin will need resistors across the wheels to provide a current path .
By entering dcc block detection into Youtube search box, you will many means of doing so
one of many
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qUJcdL9Gko

you can also use IRDOTS
http://www.heathcote-electronics.co.uk/how_infra_red_model_train_detection_works.html



____________________
Ron
NCE DCC ; 00 scale UK outline.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Aug 8th, 2017 07:23 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 53rd post
Passed Driver
Full Member


Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2015
Location: Peckham, United Kingdom
Posts: 3565
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

 Hi Ron.  Thank you for your reply.   So that doesn't "put the track down". or cause any shorts then, very good.All the best. Kevin



____________________
Staying on the thread Kevin.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

This is topic ID = 14717     Current time is 03:54 am Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3     
You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Getting You Started. > Electrics - DCC > Electrics DCC
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin.

Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text,
click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.
Start New Topic


Back to top of page

           
15 Most Recent Topics

Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster.

All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted.
Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission.
The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.    © 2008

                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.