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Brake vans - Members Projects - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2016 08:34 pm
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Petermac
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col.stephens wrote: ....................................................  I can post a picture if anyone is interested.

..........................................................
Terry

Yes please Terry - that would indeed be interesting. :thumbs

I was a bit thrown by your comment "a very nice job you are making of this kit" ................I thought I'd virtually finished it ........now you've got me thinking glass and hand rails .............:hmm:hmm



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 Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2016 09:47 pm
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Have a look at this Petermac. It might make some sense.

http://g3madesimple.org.uk/LNER_Toad.pdf



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 Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2016 11:25 pm
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very informative ,as I have a number of these Ican now improve them,
:thumbs;-):cool:
Owen



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 Posted: Fri Jan 8th, 2016 12:15 am
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60019Bittern
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No problems. Glad to help.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2016 02:26 am
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Peter, here are the promised pictures of the handrails previously mentioned. I made these from brass wire.  They are actually 'U' shaped with a very short arm passing through a hole drilled in the headstock.  The end of the long arm passes through a hole drilled in the corner post.  All secured in place with superglue:




And when painted:



Terry

PS - Looking at that last photo the penny has just dropped as to why the cut-outs in the end platforms. Just to the right of the cut-out there is a raise strip.  I would imagine that on the prototype, this was probably an 'L' shaped metal bracket whose job was to join the corners of the lower frame.  Accordingly, the cut-out was required to access the bolts holding the bracket to the frame beneath the veranda end, without the need to remove the concrete slab.  Does this seem reasonable? 

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 Posted: Sat Jan 9th, 2016 04:25 am
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That certainly looks quite convincing.



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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2016 05:45 pm
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You have convinced me Terry.



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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2016 06:42 pm
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Petermac
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Thanks for the photos Terry. :thumbs  I clearly haven't finished mine just yet afterall .................:roll::roll:

They do look good with the handrails and yes, you could well be right about the cut out in the deck.  If that is what it was for, it's some pretty good design work from the model planners .............;-)

Now, another question -  
I note in your "pre paint" photo, everything is bauxite - did you spray paint it or was that pre-coloured plastic ?  Regardless of why it was brown, how did you then paint the chassis so accurately and what with ?

I tried full assembly then paint, paint the chassis bits first then the cabin before assembly, and also tried everything with both brush and airbrush using acrylics - all turned out to be very awkward and unsatisfactory to do ..................:???::???:    I've usually spoilt most of my models at the painting stage :cry::cry::cry:



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 Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2016 06:45 pm
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Petermac
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60019Bittern wrote: Have a look at this Petermac. It might make some sense.

http://g3madesimple.org.uk/LNER_Toad.pdf

Thanks for this Mick - as Owen said, it makes very interesting reading. :thumbs:thumbs



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 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2016 04:37 pm
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col.stephens
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Actually Peter, thee photos are of different models.  I have got about five on the go at the same time.  The unpainted model is in the original kit colour.  I'm trying to remember how I painted the other van.  If memory serves correctly, I gave the whole van an undercoat of Halford's primer (which comes conveniently in a rust colour) followed by black paint airbrushed onto the underframe. When dry, mask the underframe with masking tape and airbrush the body with bauxite (Precision Paint in this case).  I then gave the van a spray with Humbrol Enamel no.29 Matt Earth, just to tone it all down.  I used the original transfers but failed to paint gloss varnish where the transfers were going to be applied, thus the 'misty' look as the air has got behind them.  New transfers are available for the whole Airfix range of wagons so you can vary the numbers of similar types of vehicles.


Personally, I'm not a great fan of acrylics.  O.k for painting human figures but I much prefer to use enamels for painting rolling stock.


Terry

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 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2016 05:10 pm
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col.stephens
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Peter, without wishing to steal your thread, I wonder if I might just show you some further additions I am making to the original kit?

I have fitted a false floor of black plastikard with a strip of lead beneath. This view also shows the glazing in place




The vacuum cylinder in the kit is in half-relief so I have built up the other half with styrene.  I omit the cylinder altogether if the van is to represent a grey, unfitted version.  This photo also shows the pull-rods fixed between the brake shoes (plastic rod) and the metal wheels which replace the original plastic wheels in the Airfix kit.  Some of these additions are not really necessary as you can't see them under the van.




The only other modification to the original kit is to remove the half-relief moulded roof ventilators and replace them with white metal ones.  This photo shows them on the, as yet, unpainted van, featured earlier.



All a matter of personal choice, of course, and not necessarily needed to produce a fine model, as evidenced by your original photos.

Terry

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 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2016 05:54 pm
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col.stephens
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One last photo Peter just to show the beauty of the original Airfix boxes. 




Terry

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 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2016 08:42 pm
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Thanks Peter and Terry for reminding us all how good the Dapol, né Airfix kits have been to us over the many years. As a teenager, I must have built and detailed easily over a hundred Airfix models and the box photos (eg, last post) is a good reminder of just how fantastic the original artwork was. I was fascinated by air and land military vehicles as a lad and those box images were true works of art, always telling vivid stories and making you want to buy and build the models.

Good to see you posting again Terry and I look forward to your continuing brake van build Peter ;-)

Bill

 



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 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2016 09:49 pm
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Petermac
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Not "stealing the thread" at all Terry - the more info the better and, as Bill said, it's great to be reminded of the wonderful box art.

Thanks also for the details on your method of painting.  I tried masking off the chassis but found it the very devil to do.  Having said that, I had fitted the buffers before I attempted it .............maybe I'll try again before fitting them on my next (and therefore probably final) kit. :thumbs

It's also interesting to see what has changed over the years.  I don't know when your Airfix kits were produced - or at least, when the moulds were, but things appear to have changed slightly between yours and my Dapol offerings.  My Dapol kit is moulded in grey, slightly flexible plastic rather than a more rigid ABS - probably a cheaper plastic than that used by Airfix, as mentioned earlier in the thread.

I had wondered about the positioning of the brake pipes on yours - you had them hanging down, as shown here -



whereas mine, according to the exploded view in the instructions, are clearly shown with their post pointing upwards, as in my model here:
 


Your box art would suggest that they were indeed reversed during the period your model depicts.


Additionally, you said that the vacuum cylinder on your kit is moulded in half relief.  On mine, it's full relief so maybe Airfix listened to their customers at some stage.  I'm assuming the brake rodding and vacuum cylinder piston push rods etc. are your own addition - they don't exist on my kit.  I like the metal ventilators. :thumbs

Your box art also shows the additional grab rails I asked about on the fore and aft deck.  Not shown on mine hence my request for a photo - you must have thought I was an idiot !!!

For the transfers, I'm going to try the "new formula" Humbrol Decalfix.  Their online video suggests there's no need to gloss varnish the area first ................:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Ywau87mo4

I'll take a shot of the underside of mine and also, one of the box art (now a simple header card :cry:)



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 Posted: Wed Jan 13th, 2016 10:23 pm
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I've just received a notification from Hattons about DJM models in N gauge.They have about twenty shark brake vans and mermaid tipping ballast wagons.I haven't looked but they may do the same in OO.



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 Posted: Thu Jan 14th, 2016 12:14 am
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What I tend to do on these Dapol/Kitmaster/Airfix wagon kits is to spray the underframes then add the body afterwards by making a false floor which is removable to hold it all square whilst the building takes place. I also found it easier to put in top hat bearings were needed before joining the solebars to the floor unit. If fitting screw/3 link etc. couplings I also remove the socket where the coupling pin for the Dapol type couplings fit using a razor saw and files. It's tricky but is easier done in the flat so to speak. You may well have to file the three link hooks so they fit in the really small slots on the buffer beam.



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 Posted: Thu Jan 14th, 2016 12:26 am
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col.stephens
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My mistake Peter.  The vacuum cylinder is in full relief.  There is only one v-hanger in the kit with no vacuum cylinder push rods, etc. and I added those as you correctly pointed out.  The Airfix Brake Van dates from 1961 so the moulds now owned by Dapol must be somewhat worn.  I understand that Dapol use recycled plastic, the quality of which is inferior to the original Airfix product. I prefer to buy original Airfix kits which can often be bought for around £3 or so.

Re the handrails. I didn't actually notice that they were depicted on the box as on the prototype.  As you know, on the model they are actually rather crude raised strips on the platform ends and bear no relation to the box artwork.

As regards the vacuum pipe. Interesting point.  I must check the original Airfix instructions again but I think that I fitted them as per the drawing.  Having said that, the shape of them does not look very natural in the position I have fitted them.  They now look to be upside down to me.  I have come across at least two photos showing them being below the headstock. 

Thank you Bill. Good to be back.

Terry 

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 Posted: Thu Jan 14th, 2016 12:41 am
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Sorry, I forgot to mention the fitting of Bachmann type hook & bar couplings.  I usually remove the raised bosses underneath each end of the floor.  These are meant to be used for fitting the original Airfix couplings (long defunct). Parkside Dundas sell mounting blocks for Bachmann NEM couplings. (Parkside Dundas code PA34).  I cut off the two plastic mouldings under the block so that it sits flat against the underside of the van, thus...




The NEM coupling simply slots into the small cut-out in the block and is at the correct height to match RTR wagons...




Sorry Peter, back to you...

Terry

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 Posted: Thu Jan 14th, 2016 01:25 am
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My rake of them has Kadee No 5's fitted in a similar manner to your NEM blocks Terry. 

Rather fortunately, the Kadee draft gearbox can be glued directly to the underside, as with yours Terry - the height is almost perfect.

I firstly remove all the down-facing projections which are moulded onto the underside of the chassis and buffer beam.  This type of "soft" plastic however, isn't popular with my file which quickly clogs so most of the "heavy" work, is done with side cutters or a sharp blade leaving the file to just do the final smoothing.  I've used Revell poly cement to fit the draft gearboxes - it seems to be holding at the moment but it is funny material to glue.  It's not too keen on MekPak which doesn't seem strong enough to do much welding unless it's used fairly heavily although Plastic Weld seems to work.   It, on the other hand, has to be used very sparingly as it can be a bit too "solvent like" .............something between the two might be perfect. :roll::roll:



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 Posted: Thu Jan 14th, 2016 02:05 pm
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It's great to see queries, problems and solutions like this posted, in a way it's a bit like a detective mystery story!

There is usually someone here on YMR that holds the important clue...

Doug



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