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MaxSouthOz
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Yesterday I took my trusty iPhone to Goolwa to photograph the construction of the docks there, which about the era I want for Port Elderley.











and finally a shallow bit . . .



So I've started a test tank, using PVA.



The PVA sets very clear, which is fine for the shallow end, but no good for the turbid quality of the deeper water, as seen the earlier shots.  However, it's excellent for reproducing the swells and waves on the surface.

The next layer I'll add some green acrylic paint to the PVA.  We'll see if that makes it look better.

It takes about 24 hours to set up, so I'll be back then with an update.

gormo
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Very Interesting Max,

I`ve never heard of PVA being used to model water before........but I guess I don`t get out much.?
I`ll be interested to follow your method and see how it pans out.
When I first saw your last pic I thought you might have been attempting to model the channel tunnel but I was mistaken.....:mutley

:cheers  Gormo

Last edited on Fri Aug 21st, 2015 08:29 am by gormo

MaxSouthOz
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It's pretty common, Gormo.  I can't take any credit.

It's sealed with varnish.

I'm pretty sure that's what Marty's using.

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=362&forum_id=21&page=66 

It seems to work OK.

Gwiwer
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The work shown in this attachment, and which Max has seen in person, was done with Magic Water poured over a painted base. A second pour included tiny spots of acrylic colour which gives the impression of depth.

This product sets smooth and glassy and cannot be sculpted.

I topped it with a layer of Woodland Scenics "Water Effects" paste which sets slightly matt and can be moulded into ripples, waves or what ever you wish. It can also be painted; I added white crests to waves and drew the paint back with a blade to represent foaming breakers.

The photo was taken using only natural moonlight after spraying the sea with water to ensure it glinted nicely.

Attachment: 1.jpg (Downloaded 23 times)

Last edited on Fri Aug 21st, 2015 05:05 pm by Gwiwer

gormo
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Good to know and very interesting
Thank you
:cheers  Gormo

Gary
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Another method with great results : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgWt137zpkQ

Cheers, Gary.

MaxSouthOz
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Here's my first go at a pile . . .



Only 31 to go . . .  :shock:

Gary
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A pile of piles...? Or is that a ship load of piles...? :lol: Looking good. I really like the sea moss on the bottom. :thumbs

Cheers, Gary.

MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, Gary - I was hoping it looked a bit like barnacles.  :lol:

Maybe a bit of black spotted on might help.

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Looks very pile like to me... the green is marine growth for sure... not sure I'd say barnacles... spots of black might do it.
cheersMarty

MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, Marty.  I'll give it a go - after all, it's just a practice one.  :cool:

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Hmmmm so Max, If you look at images of barnacles on piles......you can probably get up to thousand on each one....that's 1000 little black dots x30 odd ?  I'd maybe model it at high tide mate !!!  :shock:

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:mutley

MaxSouthOz
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I've made up a model of one bent of the wharf construction to see if it stacks up.



I think that I'll keep the barnacles below the bottom ties.

g0ibi
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That looks great Max, how big will this be?

Cheers
Ron

MaxSouthOz
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Hi Ron

The layout will be 5.1 metres x 1.2 metres.

I've got another thread running . . .

http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=13674&forum_id=21

. . . which explains it better.

Cheers

Gary
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Looks good Max. :thumbs
Working at a larger scale allows for the extra details like the nuts and bolts. I know Grandt Line (HO & O), Tichy Train Group (HO) does scale nuts and bolts, rivets etc, but what did you use ??

Cheers, Gary.

MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, Gary.  I'm afraid that I cheated and used track pins.  :lol:

Marty
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Nice and square too... looks good.
cheersMarty

MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, Marty.

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As usual Max, some quality modelling going on.

From the photographs, the ubiquitous rubber tyre on a dock scene,you know I can't think of when I've seen one modelled....I don't expect for one minute you'll miss slipping one or two over your piles...

Doug

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Thanks, Doug.  The tyres appear in the earlier shots.

There are replacement O scale wheels and tyres available.

jimmy styles
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Wow looking good, I ised the old fashioned pva on my operation abysis and I'm quite happy with how it turned out however you need to do a lot of thin layers to get any sense of depth. I will enjoy seeing how you get on

MaxSouthOz
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Thanks, Jim.  I've been watching.  :cool:

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I wonder when it was that they started using tyres as bumpers? and what did they use bfore tyres were freely availble, Rope bumpers similar to canal boats?

MaxSouthOz
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I've started on the water.



First a layer of plaster.  I'm using Gyprock™ brand joint compound followed by their finishing compound.



Then that is covered by two coats of acrylic indoor house paint which I had mixed to my colour choice.



Then I added a coat of Liquitex® gloss super heavy gel.  You can see in this picture where some of it still looks white where it hasn't fully set up.  Set up takes 2 - 3 days.



Lastly, I have dusted on some white weathering powder.  It's a bit whiter than the actual model, as the white over reflects off the powder, but you get the idea.

jimmy styles
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Looking great really nice texture. Looking forward to seeing this progress keep up the good work

allan downes
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Hi Max.

I think using PVA for water was originally my idea way, way, back but I could have been re inventing the wheel !

Anyway, if you should so wish, I have a photograph of a fast and heavy flowing river using several layers of heavily stippled PVA which might be of interest to you so let me know Max and I'll put it up for you. Or if you don't want your thread hijacked !!,  I could email it to you.

Cheers.

Allan

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Thanks, guys.

Put it up for all to see please, Allan.

I'm always looking to learn something new.

I've spent about 12 months researching water techniques.  I've tried various media including PVA and this one works best for me.

Actually I think Liquitex super heavy is a PVA style gel as well.  I'm searching for the YouTube movie of Swiss? guy who I aw using it.

I've even tried ModPodge, but Liquitex Super heavy has given me the best results.

I wasn't happy with the colour until I used white weathering powder.

The Liquitex stays tacky for a long while after and the powder sticks really well.

I'm looking forward to seeing your river.  :thumbs

Cheers

MaxSouthOz
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Found it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMtXDlS0Tdg

 

allan downes
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Hi Max.

Yes, I've seen that video before. The guy's a genius.

If it's OK by you, I'll stick the picture up tomorrow coz first I 've got to trawl through my files to locate it apart from which, the missus wants me to sit through a movie with her, actually it's a TV play, you might have seen it, Good Night Mr Tom with the late John Thaw.

So, tommorow then.

With regards.

Allan

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Sounds diabolical, Allan.  No trains, I suppose?  :lol:

I'll look forward to seeing the photo.

Cheers

allan downes
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The film finished ealier than expected Max - and there were trains ! - so here's the picture.

Any questions, just fire away.

Regards.

Allan.

 




 


 

Last edited on Fri Dec 25th, 2015 04:06 am by allan downes

MaxSouthOz
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That looks pretty convincing, Allan.

Have you done a "How To" anywhere?

When I get closer to the beach it might work well for me.

allan downes
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MaxSouthOz wrote: That looks pretty convincing, Allan.

Have you done a "How To" anywhere?

When I get closer to the beach it might work well for me.


Ain't gone viral with it yet Max though I have explained it about a thousand times in various mags and MR websites which nobody reads !

It's simple actually, just paint the base in black, dark greens whatever then when dry just keep spreading  several layers of PVA heavily stippling each one and especially as it's just about to skin over . Leave each layer to dry out completely of course and the more layers you spread the  more pronounced the effect of fast moving water. To get the effect as seen in the picture took four layers oh, and don't thin the PVA out, use it neat, like you would with a good malt ! 

Cheers mate and merry Christmas.

Allan

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Hi Allan

Thanks for the explanation.  I went down the neat PVA route - I did about a half a dozen layers, but I wasn't able to stop it trapping tiny air bubbles in the PVA when I stippled it.

I found the same problem with Mod Podge.

While the Liquitex is a PVA like gel, it resists the forming of the tiny air bubbles when you stipple it.

Where was I going wrong with the PVA?

Cheers

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MaxSouthOz wrote: Hi Allan

Thanks for the explanation.  I went down the neat PVA route - I did about a half a dozen layers, but I wasn't able to stop it trapping tiny air bubbles in the PVA when I stippled it.

I found the same problem with Mod Podge.

While the Liquitex is a PVA like gel, it resists the forming of the tiny air bubbles when you stipple it.

Where was I going wrong with the PVA?

Cheers


Hard to say Max though I get very little or no air bubbles at all. Could be that you aren't  stippling it enough, maybe the glue layers are too thick but I wouldn't have thought a few milky air bubbles would spoil the effect - real water is full of them !

However, I think you should go down the route that suits you best and not mine if it's proving troublesome. It's all to do with what material works best for you and what I can see from your efforts so far I can't figure out why you're listening to an old goat like me !

With regards.

Allan

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Ha ha.  Old Goat eh?  This time next year I'll be 70, so I'm up there.  :lol:

I never discount anyone's expertise.  PVA could still be an option as I work my way up to the beach.  I hear what you say about the bubbles.  I'm working in O scale, so they probably won't be as noticeable.

It must be different from PVA, because I can pull the super heavy gel about with impunity.   The downside is that it shrinks something chronic - so much so that it pulled the paint off the top of the aluminium.  Also, if I make big wavelets, it shrinks into lines.  I then have to go back and add the tiny wavelets if I want them.

I've still got more than two square metres to do - so there's plenty of space left to practice.  ;-)

allan downes
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MaxSouthOz wrote: Ha ha.  Old Goat eh?  This time next year I'll be 70, so I'm up there.  :lol:

I never discount anyone's expertise.  PVA could still be an option as I work my way up to the beach.  I hear what you say about the bubbles.  I'm working in O scale, so they probably won't be as noticeable.

It must be different from PVA, because I can pull the super heavy gel about with impunity.   The downside is that it shrinks something chronic - so much so that it pulled the paint off the top of the aluminium.  Also, if I make big wavelets, it shrinks into lines.  I then have to go back and add the tiny wavelets if I want them.

I've still got more than two square metres to do - so there's plenty of space left to practice.  ;-)


 

Yep, 80 a month ago Max and still knocking out crap !

Anyway, don't give up, you'll get there in the end I'm certain.

Anymore questions, fire way, who knows, I might even have the answer to one of them!

All the best mate.

Allan

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I also used Allan's pva idea on operation abyss as if it's good enough for the master then it will do for me.

gormo
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G`day Max,
Merry Christmas mate.
Your water is really looking the business. It will be interesting to see the next batch of pics.
The video is also excellent.......I reckon folks could use it as a means of relaxation......and the layout is just beautiful.
:cheers  Gormo

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Thanks, Gormo.
Merry Christmas to you.  :cheers

Sol and I are helping a fellow NMRA member with his layout this week, so not much progress expected.
27 turnout motors to fit.  Each one a botch job repair from a so called, "professional."  About an hour to fit each one.  :pedal

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Any updated pictures of the water Max ??

Cheers, Gary.

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Nope, sorry Gary.  See the post two up.

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You and Sol are good mates to have, to help a fellow modeller out, I think the prospect of refitting so many point motors would fill me with trepidation :shock:, good luck!

Cheers, Pete  

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Thanks, Pete.  We got seven done yesterday.  :shock:

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If you're still having trouble, you could try polyester casting resin with double the recommended catalyst. The extra heat from the catalyst produces a wave effect as the resin hardens, which I only imagine would be enhanced by stippling as it sets. As the resin starts to set, make wakes for any moving boats you want to set in the "water" with a skewer or similar pointy stick. Drybrush these with titanium white acrylic afterwards. Read about this method in a collection of layout-building articles

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Thanks, Brendan.

I used resin on my last layout.  This area is going to be way too big.

I'm using plaster painted with acrylic, then Liquitex Gloss Super Heavy Gel medium.

Followed by white weathering powder.



Cheers

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This layout's far to precious to allow it to disappear off the main message board so hence the 'bump' !

Just gotta see then thar 'blocks' in action...

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You're too kind, Allan.

See also . . . http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=14066&forum_id=21

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An education on how it should be done, AND from down under would you believe !

A true masterclass Max. Impressive workmanship. Impressive guy.

Cheers mate.

Allan

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Thanks, Allan.  :thumbs


                 

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