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MERG DCC Kits - DCC - Tutorials - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2015 07:06 pm
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Passed Driver
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Hi Paul           Although I do have a computer. I want to be the Fat Controller, the Fat Signalman, the Fat Station/Yard Master, and anyone else including the skinny Lamp man. And if all those roles can be worked without the computer butting in ?? then count me in.                                                                ATB  Kevin



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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 02:25 am
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Hi Kevin

You're now entering the area I have yet to get into.
Constraints I see so far (I may well be wrong, and if so hope someone can point me in the right direction), is only one controller can be in control of a locomotive, so if your throttle is driving the loco, the the automatic control cannot.
So far I have got to the point where I can either control turnouts via the hand throttle, the JMRI mimic panel via a mouse, turnout tables or route table.
I need to install blocks and block detection, which will involve a partial rewire. Then signals, the signals will be interlocked to the points and block detection, but initially, the driver will have to obey the signals. Eventually, I intend to have some DMU's running under full computer control, while loco hauled trains will driven by an operator, shunted within the platforms and returned to the fiddle yard. Both automated trains and operator driven trains obeying the timetable sequence and signals.

I've still a fair learning curve to climb.

Paul



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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 03:27 am
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MaxSouthOz
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Correct, Paul.

Only one controller can control a loco at a time.



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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 10:29 am
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paul_l
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Cheers  Max[size=
So......Kevin
]
Unlike DC, where you just kill the power to the track to enforce a Red signal, I'm not sure how to enforce a Red on a loco thats being controlled by a hand throttle.My own answer is that is the loco drivers job, as to me DCC, is there to allow you to drive the loco rather than switch the power to areas of track.
Sorry if that doesn't answer the question ..... again others may have the answers as I'm still fairly new to this computer control malarky - I have to stay a couple of chapters ahead of Toto :mutley
Paul



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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 10:46 am
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Hi Paul            Being a retired train driver, the term "Automation":cry: does not appeal to me, washing machines are okay being automatic. Real trains or models need a driver:lol:, I am interested in the idea that(if I take my eye off the ball) a train will not overrun a stop signal;-).If I was to join M E R G , would it be possible to use their equipment to stop trains at signals and points without the aid of a computer?? (I have nothing against others who use a Computer) but I want to be the "Fat Controller" and every other grade on my railway. If I can combine M E R G equipment with "Wire in tube point control" everything will be hunky dory with me.  Kevin



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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 11:31 am
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Ed
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All way above my head, but having heard of 'brake on dc' it would appear to be the other way of doing it.

Don't know about other makes of command station and decoders, but this is how it's done with Digitrax equipment.

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB193/brake-sections/

No computer involved, but still complicated (well it is to me) and no MERG kit either so apologies as it's a bit :off topic



Ed




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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 11:40 am
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Hello,
I have not a clue what is going on here, but I am enjoying the read. Hoping to learn something along the way.
Regards
Stephen



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 Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2015 05:41 pm
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MaxSouthOz
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I think that we're talking about two different things here, Paul.  I only know about RR&Co.  When the computer is controlling the loco, it can't proceed past a red signal.

When a human is controlling a loco, he can usually ignore signals; but it is possible to set up protection devices linked to the signalling system to protect the loco from its driver.

They are many and varied.

Ed's Digitrax is an example.

My advice to Kevin would be to not try to run before he can crawl.  Start with a simple project and build up to the complicated.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 20th, 2015 12:26 am
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paul_l
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Hi Max, the same for JMRI as well, either the computer system controls the loco, or an manualy controlled throttle.

Kevin

Looking at Ed's post, and a bit o googling, dc braking on a dcc system, appears more a feature of the loco decoder than the DCC system.
DC operation mode on the decoder must be set OFF
The section of track prior to the signal needs to be fully isolated (double breaks at each end).
For 00/H0 the isolated section needs to be able to be switched between DCC Track feed and 12V DC, a dpdt switch or relay would suffice.
When the signal is clear, then section is connected to the dcc track supply.
When the signal is at danger then the section is fed from the 12V dc.
When the loco enters the section supplied by the 12V dc, the loco will decelerate to stop, controlled by cv4.
When the signal clears - section now fed by the dcc track supply the loco will accelerate back to the previous throttle setting, the acceleration rate is controlled by cv3.
Isolated section needs top be long enough to allow the loco to stop before the signal. Double heading may cause issues as locos that have not entered the isolated section will still keep pushing.

So if you are wishing to avoid any computer control, then a simple system using switches and relays will do the trick.

Paul



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