Video Archive         Recent Topics      
YMR logo

You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Model Railway Layouts. > Members Personal Layouts. > NotMutley - take 2 To bottom of page
                 

 Moderated by: Spurno Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  Next Page Last Page  
Start New Topic Reply Printer Friendly

NotMutley - take 2 - Members Personal Layouts. - Model Railway Layouts. - Your Model Railway Club
AuthorPost
 Posted: Sun Apr 8th, 2018 08:22 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 41st post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1222
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Well its taken 3 months to finally make sufficient space in the train room that I am now able to get to the layout and it has been cleared of all the junk and train stuff and I can now run trains again.  A milestone achieved albeit taking a lot longer than anticipated.

After cleaning the track and relearning how to use the controls I decided that I needed to get more orderly in my approach to the layout and the computer programming.  For those of you that have joined the Club in the past two years I run the layout using DCC and computer control. I run either fully automated or by using the computer screens a switchboard.

As my natural bias is to things electrical I decided that the first task I would tackle was the detection of wagons that sit in sidings, or worst case, detach from a moving train.
Reading my NCE manual it said that this is easily achieved by placing a 4.7K ohm resistor across the axle and I found a video that showed how this could be achieved using surface mounted resistors and electrical paint .  Simple? well yes except even when I used up to an 80k resistor across the track my block detectors failed to detect them.  So project on hold while I seek input from the NCE users forum. 

Undeterred, I thought I would address another issue which is loco profiling. This is necessary so that all trains under computer control can run at the same scale speed for a designated speed - i.e if the computer says the train is running at 30mph then thel loco that being controlled by the computer will be moving at the 30mph scale speed - very important when running consists!
To save space I decided that I could do this on a rolling road rather than a purpose built length of track. However, having taken the plunge and ordered a speed cat from Germany after seeing it perform on a video from McKinley Railway I have now discovered that the new version of the railway computer software (RR&Co) handles it differently so its a wait and see. :shock:

Dave



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Sun Apr 8th, 2018 07:49 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 42nd post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 3500
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Dave
Not sure if you want this here or should I ask Max to move it to the RR&co area?

Occupancy detection........I assume you are using BD20s hence the NCE Forum? 

                                         A very dumb question ......you have checked in more than one block? The blocks you have used do detect stationary locos? 

Will a bulb work across the tracks?

Silver paint only works as a conductor when the carrying medium has completely evapourated......Mine often fail when first tested but after leaving them a few hours they work fine.

I will write later about V9

Best wishes

John









____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC ,RR&Co Gold V9.0 A4 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 9th, 2018 03:44 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 43rd post
ZeldaTheSwordsman
Madman


Joined: Fri Jan 15th, 2016
Location: Pomona, California USA
Posts: 418
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

I wish you best of luck on sorting the DCC issues out.

As for a concern you brought up earlier in the thread, about the more recently printed stone being slightly different in color, I would say don't sweat it. If anything, a little variation like that is realistic (at least, to my knowledge).



____________________
My workbench, AKA an exercise in insanity
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 9th, 2018 04:42 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 44th post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1222
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

John Dew wrote: Hi Dave
Not sure if you want this here or should I ask Max to move it to the RR&co area?

Occupancy detection........I assume you are using BD20s hence the NCE Forum? 

                                         A very dumb question ......you have checked in more than one block? The blocks you have used do detect stationary locos? 

Will a bulb work across the tracks?

Silver paint only works as a conductor when the carrying medium has completely evapourated......Mine often fail when first tested but after leaving them a few hours they work fine.

I will write later about V9

Best wishes

John


Thanks John,
No such thing as a dumb question - the problem is across all the blocks on the layout - carriages with lighting will register with the DB20 but not wagons with a single LED tail light.
I have used conductive paint as recommended by Charlies in the first video rather than silver paint which I was not able to source . My testing however reverted to testing resistors across the track.
Dave



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 9th, 2018 04:47 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 45th post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1222
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote: I wish you best of luck on sorting the DCC issues out.

As for a concern you brought up earlier in the thread, about the more recently printed stone being slightly different in color, I would say don't sweat it. If anything, a little variation like that is realistic (at least, to my knowledge).

Hi Brendan,
Many thanks for your comment. At the time it seemed a major issue but as you suggest in the 12inch to the foot world there are variations sometimes considerable ones and the scenery has been "weathered" over the past few years by albeit limited exposure to sunlight .

Dave



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 9th, 2018 09:03 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 46th post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 3500
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Dave
Googled BD20s to try and find the manual.....no luck........but did find a couple of threads about the set up of the NCE AIU(??).

As I understand it the BD20.  detects occupancy but it has to be hooked up with a device that notifies the user of occupancy........are you using the NCE AIU?  Apparently you have to have loops of wire round the AIU for it to work properly withlow current draw occupancy

I apologise if you know this already.........but it did make me wonder if the issue is one of notification rather than detection?



Good luck


John



____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC ,RR&Co Gold V9.0 A4 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Mon Apr 9th, 2018 06:18 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 47th post
amdaley
Full Member


Joined: Tue Feb 7th, 2012
Location: South West Ireland, Ireland
Posts: 303
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Everyone.

There's information on the NCE BD20 here including Led hook up.
Hope its helpful.


https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201254549-BD20-Block-Detector


Tony.



____________________
"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
Regards.
Tony.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2018 03:58 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 48th post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1222
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi John and Tony

Many thanks for you welcome posts on my problem.
My BD20's are connected to AIUs as you have described. Each AIU can handle 14 BD20s and I have  4 AIUs around the layout. Each BD20 has an LED on the AIU that will light up when current is detected. The layout and the equipment work as required except that in attempting to have wagons registering I have discovered that the recommended 10K resistor is not triggering the BD20.
 
My problem is that the LED for any of  the BD20s will come on if a loco or carriage with lighting, is sitting in the corresponding block, ( i.e. working as expected) but not when I place a resistor of 10k to 80k across the track :???:
I am still waiting for the NCE forum to post my query - hopefully they will shed some light on the problem - I'm sure it will be something relatively simple
ps I have already ensured that my BD20s have two loops of the wire to ensure increased sensitivity

Best wishes

Dave

 



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2018 10:38 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 49th post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1222
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Speed cat and rolling road arrived
A parcel from Germany arrived today - and the picture below shows the contents out of the box.
The rolling road with a central rail  that holds the rollers in place and allows the system to accommodate third rails systems such as marklin.
Also instructions in German and English, attachments to the rolling road to connect to the computer, a CD disc and a small extension for the USB.
Without reading anything I can see that this system was designed to connect to a laptop computer and I will need an extension USB lead to enable me to connect the device to my desktop. :roll:



This is the contents of the small packet that contains Speedcat

Not much to it - the rollers that have a rubber ring to prevent slippage that will need to inserted onto the rolling road, the USB connection and a spare wheel with rubber ring and two spare rubber rings.

I will need to have a good think about where and how I am going to locate the rolling road as it does not appear to have anything that will secure it in place and I regret that with my clumsiness I can see that I could accidentally get something caught in the USB wires and end up with the rolling road and loco on the floor :shock:

Let the games begin - next stage getting the equipment up and running on the computer and then possibly the biggest challenge- working out how it works with RR&Co



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2018 11:20 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 50th post
MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12232
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Dave

I'm late to the party as usual.  :oops:

How does that device fit into your plans?

Cheers



____________________
Max
Port Elderley
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2018 11:34 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 51st post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1222
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

MaxSouthOz wrote: Hi Dave

I'm late to the party as usual.  :oops:

How does that device fit into your plans?

Cheers
Good question Max,

Currently I speed-profile locos on the layout but that involves curves and points which result in less than optimal profiling.
There were two options - a length of track at a lower level that was divided  into three blocks  which would take up room and the room doesn't lend itself to a long straight piece of track so I would need to have plenty of "buffer" at each end  or option two use a RR&Co compatible rolling road.
I have gone for the latter - but have yet to find out whether it will do the job !  The rolling road would sit near where I sit on a shelf just below the layout.

Dave



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2018 04:12 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 52nd post
MaxSouthOz
Admin


Joined: Sat Aug 23rd, 2008
Location: Adelaide , Australia
Posts: 12232
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Interesting.  I was of the opinion that the loco was required to travel the length of a Block, entering new Blocks, etc.

Still; it's been a while since I played with TC.    :lol:

I'll be following with much interest.



____________________
Max
Port Elderley
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2018 08:37 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 53rd post
amdaley
Full Member


Joined: Tue Feb 7th, 2012
Location: South West Ireland, Ireland
Posts: 303
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

gdaysydney wrote: Speed cat and rolling road arrived
A parcel from Germany arrived today - and the picture below shows the contents out of the box.
The rolling road with a central rail  that holds the rollers in place and allows the system to accommodate third rails systems such as marklin.
Also instructions in German and English, attachments to the rolling road to connect to the computer, a CD disc and a small extension for the USB.
Without reading anything I can see that this system was designed to connect to a laptop computer and I will need an extension USB lead to enable me to connect the device to my desktop. :roll:



This is the contents of the small packet that contains Speedcat

Not much to it - the rollers that have a rubber ring to prevent slippage that will need to inserted onto the rolling road, the USB connection and a spare wheel with rubber ring and two spare rubber rings.

I will need to have a good think about where and how I am going to locate the rolling road as it does not appear to have anything that will secure it in place and I regret that with my clumsiness I can see that I could accidentally get something caught in the USB wires and end up with the rolling road and loco on the floor :shock:

Let the games begin - next stage getting the equipment up and running on the computer and then possibly the biggest challenge- working out how it works with RR&Co


Hi Dave.


I have that rolling road myself.
When I bought it I also bought 
http://marion-zeller.de/Fine-Scale-P4-S4-EM-0n3/Upside-down-System-KURT-finescale-P4-S4::60.html?MODsid=154hqt1h89ljkng0ndltotio13
It has stands on which the rolling road sits.


I'll be very interested in how you get on with the velocity measuring system ?


Tony.




____________________
"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
Regards.
Tony.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2018 09:43 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 54th post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 3500
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Tony

:off topic  sort of..........how do you rate the Speed Cat performance as a rolling road?

Regards

John 



____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC ,RR&Co Gold V9.0 A4 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2018 10:18 pm
PMQuoteReply
link to this 55th post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 3500
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Dave

I am very interested to see how you get on with the Speed Cat interfacing directly with TC particularly if it retains accuracy and saves time

There is no question that profiling conventionally,  a long uninterrupted profile block results in more consistent loco performance..........the downside is that the increased length results in significantly increased time to complete the profile :sad:  I estimate it takes about 45 -60 minutes to profile one loco..........even with the required glass of wine and some decent jazz it is still a bit like watching paint dry.

There are some major enhancements in V9 including something called Limited Distance Moves which makes the Kadee Shuffle much more realistic (as seen on my video) . To take advantage of this and generally enhanced accuracy I am laboriously reprofiling all of my locos :roll: . ....... I am now an expert on Diana Krall tracks :lol: 



Not sure if you have seen this thread on the RR&Co forum?

http://www.freiwald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29647

This was when V9 was first released which changed the way TC related to Speed Cat and required the Speed Cat manufacturer (Matt Zeller?) to modify his software........I believe this has now been done.

There was also this......hence my post to Tony

http://www.freiwald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31182

I am inclined to think the OP in this thread is confused....his profile states V8 yet he is trying to run the latest (V9) software

Best wishes

John





____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC ,RR&Co Gold V9.0 A4 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 11th, 2018 12:51 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 56th post
amdaley
Full Member


Joined: Tue Feb 7th, 2012
Location: South West Ireland, Ireland
Posts: 303
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

John Dew wrote: Hi Tony

:off topic  sort of..........how do you rate the Speed Cat performance as a rolling road?

Regards

John 

Hi John.
I don't have the speed cat.
It was the rolling road stands I was referring to.
The Speed Cat is a separate item to the rolling road.
Tony.



____________________
"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
Regards.
Tony.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 11th, 2018 01:07 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 57th post
John Dew
Full Member


Joined: Tue Dec 1st, 2009
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Posts: 3500
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Sorry Tony that was careless of me.....I meant to ask what you  thought of the rolling road in itself
Cheers



____________________
John
Granby III
Lenz DCC ,RR&Co Gold V9.0 A4 Windows 10
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 11th, 2018 03:22 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 58th post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1222
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

John Dew wrote: Hi Dave

I am very interested to see how you get on with the Speed Cat interfacing directly with TC particularly if it retains accuracy and saves time

There is no question that profiling conventionally,  a long uninterrupted profile block results in more consistent loco performance..........the downside is that the increased length results in significantly increased time to complete the profile :sad:  I estimate it takes about 45 -60 minutes to profile one loco..........even with the required glass of wine and some decent jazz it is still a bit like watching paint dry.

There are some major enhancements in V9 including something called Limited Distance Moves which makes the Kadee Shuffle much more realistic (as seen on my video) . To take advantage of this and generally enhanced accuracy I am laboriously re profiling all of my locos :roll: . ....... I am now an expert on Diana Krall tracks :lol: 

Not sure if you have seen this thread on the RR&Co forum?

http://www.freiwald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29647

This was when V9 was first released which changed the way TC related to Speed Cat and required the Speed Cat manufacturer (Matt Zeller?) to modify his software........I believe this has now been done.

There was also this......hence my post to Tony

http://www.freiwald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31182

I am inclined to think the OP in this thread is confused....his profile states V8 yet he is trying to run the latest (V9) software

Best wishes

John

H John, I haven't installed the Speedcat software on the train PC as yet - I will post the outcomes as soon as I have done so.
I had seen the posts on the RR&Co forum but took some comfort from the fact that the posts were 6 months ago and that there had been no further posts. My fall back position ( other than ditching Speedcat) would be to revert to V8 or worst case, right of my Euro134 investment and continue to use track on the layout with its curves and pointwork.
 As for the time saved it will remain to be seen. I also have a glass of red ( or two) but I play my music via itunes on the PC and use the shuffle function - with over 600 cds loaded I am never sure what will be playing next but its a great way to listen to those obscure tracks without suffering from artist overload :lol:
.

Dave



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 11th, 2018 03:27 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 59th post
gdaysydney
Member


Joined: Mon Mar 28th, 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1222
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

Hi Dave.

I have that rolling road myself.
When I bought it I also bought 
http://marion-zeller.de/Fine-Scale-P4-S4-EM-0n3/Upside-down-System-KURT-finescale-P4-S4::60.html?MODsid=154hqt1h89ljkng0ndltotio13
It has stands on which the rolling road sits.


I'll be very interested in how you get on with the velocity measuring system ?


Tony.



Thanks Tony,
I saw the "upside down" cradle on You tube and decided that for the moment at least it would be a diversion from my main game. It does look appealing though - how useful have you found it ?

Dave



____________________
Dave
Notmutley
British OO outline, DCC - NCE PowerPro, Sound chips, Computer Control- RR&Co software
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

 Posted: Wed Apr 11th, 2018 04:01 am
PMQuoteReply
link to this 60th post
amdaley
Full Member


Joined: Tue Feb 7th, 2012
Location: South West Ireland, Ireland
Posts: 303
Status: 
Offline

My photos:
view photos in Gallery
view photos as slides

John Dew wrote: Sorry Tony that was careless of me.....I meant to ask what you  thought of the rolling road in itself
Cheers

Hi John.


No problem.
The rolling road is very well engineered & with it on the stands its easy to look under a loco as well so you get a good view of anything the might be happening under the loco or with the wheels on the other side of the loco.
I have the stands screwed to a length of wood so that I can move it where ever I want without any problem.


Tony.



____________________
"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask"
Regards.
Tony.
Back To Top PMQuoteReply

This is topic ID = 13573     Current time is 02:56 pm Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  Next Page Last Page    
You are here:  Your Model Railway Club > Model Railway Layouts. > Members Personal Layouts. > NotMutley - take 2
You can type a quick reply to this topic here. Click in the box below to begin.

Or to reply to an individual post, or to include images, attachments and formatted text,
click the Quote or Reply buttons on each post above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start New Topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.
Start New Topic


Back to top of page

           
15 Most Recent Topics

Problems with this web site? Please contact the Webmaster.

All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted.
Unless stated otherwise, all the material displayed on this web site, including all text, photographs, drawings and other images, is copyright and the property of the respective contributor. Registered members are welcome to use it for their own personal non-commercial modelmaking purposes. It must not be reproduced or re-published elsewhere in any form, or used commercially, without first obtaining the owner's express permission.
The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.    © 2008

                 

Recent Topics Back to top of page

Powered by UltraBB 1.15 Copyright © 2007-2011 by Jim Hale and Data 1 Systems. Page design copyright © 2008-2013 Martin Wynne. Photo gallery copyright © 2009 David Williams.