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GWR Dean Goods - High Level Chassis - Kit Bashing - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2015 02:40 am
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pnwood
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One loco I have always wanted running on Much Murkle is the iconic Dean Goods. The only RTR model of this loco was I believe made originally by Mainline and later by Hornby. Both have a horrid tender drive mechanism. I bought a secondhand one when I first started building Much Murkle and although it ran as the manufacturer intended, in my case Mainline, it was noisy and couldn't run slowly enough for my needs. In addition as many of you will know, the tender chassis has all the gearing cogs exposed and the wheels are solid plastic. Although the loco and tender above the footplate are both quite acceptable, with a little detailing they will be fine.


A lovely looking loco, the tender top and frames are loose hence the tilt.


The horrid tender drive really spoils the look of the loco, not to mention the performance.

On a visit to the Railex exhibition back in 2012 I was looking at the High Level Kits stand and saw their Dean Goods chassis kit which provides a new chassis for both the tender and the loco and puts the gearbox and motor in the loco where it belongs. So after Chris Gibbon persuaded me that it was all straightforward, I bought a kit, including gearbox and a Mashima motor. I also bought the wheels and axles from Alan Gibson at the same show.

At the time I had no experience of soldering anything as detailed as this. I read the instructions, read them again and again, and like many others before me, developed a crisis in confidence. I put the kit away, saying to myself, one day!!

Well, that day has now come. I have decided to make a start on the tender, using it as a confidence booster (hopefully). The tender kit is shown below.



The etches are beautifully crisp in Nickel Silver. The chassis can be built rigid, compensated or with CBS (Centre Beam Sprung) suspension. I have decided to keep things simple so I'm building the chassis of both the tender and loco rigid, so I won't be needing the hornblocks and some of the other etched parts.

The instructions just for the tender runs to 9 sides of A4 and are the most comprehensive that I've seen with exploded diagrams.

I actually made a start about a week ago and have got the basic frames together but I didn't want to post in case I made a hash of it. As it has gone well up to now, I'll post the progress so far in another post shortly.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2015 10:11 am
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Longchap
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Hi Nick,

I'm modelling a 20s and 30s GW branch terminus, so my Mainline Dean Goods, bought new when I was a youngish man, can hopefully fill a similar function to yours, eventually. Your thread will therefore be essential reading for me and I'm grateful that you've taken the plunge with building etched chassis'.

I discovered an etched brass chassis for a 6 wheeled parcel coach in one of my storage trunks just yesterday and it ran sweetly along a piece of track. I built this some 30 years ago using super glue, so I really should be able to master something similar after some soldering practice!

I've just looked at the tender photograph on the High Level website and it looks absolutely fabulous.

Good luck with a happy and hopefully smooth build and thanks again.

Bill



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 Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2015 11:56 am
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pnwood
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Thanks Bill. Hopefully I'll get the time to post the first steps later today.

One other thing I did forget to say in the opening post is that the coal mountain which was necessary to accomodate the motor in the tender will be removed. Interestingly in the High Level website photo they haven't removed it and it spoils the look in my opinion.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2015 07:16 pm
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Hi Nick,

It's a good model that deserves a better drive mechanism. If you haven't got a chassis frame get one, an uncompensated 0-6-0 has to be spot on when the bearings are soldered in (I've had a few disastrous experiences!). 

That mountain of coal was actually quite prototypical, these engines were often out all day on branch lines with access to water but not coal. It can also hide a decoder and large speaker if you go DCC (see below). 

They run better with as much weight as possible in the boiler. Keep as much of the old one as possible, as you will not have the benefit of the rubber traction tires. 

Nigel



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 Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2015 08:24 pm
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pnwood
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Hi Nigel

The bodies of both loco and tender are still very good against today's standards and as you say it deserves a better drive mechanism.

I appreciate that when leaving the depot these engines would be coaled up to capacity but by the end of the day the coal would be quite low. I would prefer to model it somewhere between the two extremes. Whilst I take your point about the tender having room for a decoder and speaker I have no plans either now or in the future to go down the DCC and sound route. My view is that a small layout such as Much Murkle just doesn't need it and the investment in DC locos that I already have would make the cost of changing to DCC prohibitive for me in any case.

You are absolutely correct about adding weight into the loco and I will be trying to pack as much weight into the boiler as possible. The motor has to be tiny to get it into the firebox area so the haulage capacity will be limited. It is unlikely to be a problem on the Dean Goods as it will only be required to haul 2-3 coaches or 6-7 wagons.

Personally, I would not entertain traction tyres on any of my locos. The only one I had with them was a Dapol 14xx which I swapped for a set of normal wheels from a spare chassis. That loco is not renowned for its haulage capacity even with the traction tyres but it will haul all that I require of it quite easily. 

 



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 Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2015 08:36 pm
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pnwood
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First things first for those who are interested in such things, I am using an Antex 25w soldering iron, 145 degree solder and Carrs Yellow Flux and drawing on only a modicum of soldering skills. It is being built to OO and in the case of the tender as a rigid chassis.

The first tentative steps involved detaching the wheel bearing carriers from the etch and bending these ready to be soldered into the frame. The lower left carrier is still to be formed but shows the quality of the etching and that when bent the ends project to help locate them in the frames. Right from the off you realise that this kit is very well designed.  



The next job is to cut the frame from the etch and clean up any burrs caused by cutting out.



The bearing carriers are then soldered into the frame, making sure that they are placed in the hangers from the rear. They locate perfectly.



The next job is to enlarge the holes in the carriers with a broach to fit the brass bearings. The bearings are then soldered into the carriers and the frame sides bent to 90 degrees. The frame is fettled to ensure it is all square. I haven't got any extended axles so used the EM gauge ones supplied with the Gibson wheels to help check alignment and moved freely. The frame was then tack soldered, checked again to ensure it was still square before running solder along the bends.



The next part to fit is the water scoop resting plate. This needs bending slightly and then just slots into place between the frames with locating tabs. It is then soldered into place.



One thing you have to beware of when reading the instructions is that some only apply depending on which gauge you are modelling. In the case of an OO chassis, once the resting plate is soldered into place the projections need to be cut and filed off flush with the frame like so...



The pivot box is then folded up, located using the tabs and soldered into place



The chassis end and Carrier brace are then located into slots and soldered into place.



According to the instructions work stops there until the tender body is prepared. More soon.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2015 09:50 pm
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Hi Nick and thanks for the update.

So far so good and I'm relieved that you've not given me the heebie-jeebies with any intricate soldering. It looks as if the most critical aspect was to get the frame absolutely square.

Someone seems to have taken a lot of care with chassis design from a buildability point of view and I hope soon to be looking forward to building my own. Maybe!

Anticipation is mounting.

Onwards and upwards,

Bill  :)



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 Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2015 10:53 pm
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John Dew
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Oh dear I wish you hadnt started this thread Nick:sad:  Now I am sorely tempted although I know from a number of failed and discarded attempts I am totally useless at soldering metal kits

I must say it does look a very well designed kit:hmm

On the other hand Murphys law indicates that now Hornby or perhaps Hattons will announce a new RTR version.
:pedal 



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 Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2015 11:02 pm
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Hi Nick

I'll be following your progress quite keenly on this one as I have an old K's kit that I picked up for a few pounds at a Toy fair around 10 years ago, it's unpainted and really needs rebuilding as it was glued together (badly). I had looked at this chassis kit and wondered what it was like to build and now I will know.

Soldering holds no fears for me as some of the first kits I built were brass and nickel silver, the confidence of youth back then to tackle anything served me well as the skills learnt stayed with me.


Great work so far.

Jim



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 Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2015 11:32 pm
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Hmm, sounds like a good project for a group 'monthly build'.

Go on John, you know you want to!

Bill



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At 6'4'', Bill is a tall chap, then again, when horizontal he is rather long and people often used to trip over him! . . . and so a nickname was born :)

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 Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2015 01:33 am
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pnwood
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Longchap wrote:
Hi Nick and thanks for the update.

So far so good and I'm relieved that you've not given me the heebie-jeebies with any intricate soldering. It looks as if the most critical aspect was to get the frame absolutely square.

Someone seems to have taken a lot of care with chassis design from a buildability point of view and I hope soon to be looking forward to building my own. Maybe!

Anticipation is mounting.

Onwards and upwards,

Bill  :)


Lokking at the instructions Bill, it seems the intricate stuff is still to come. High Level kits are renowned for being probably the best designed chassis kits around and all can be built as OO, EM or P4 gauge.

Hope you get around to trying one.



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 Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2015 01:36 am
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pnwood
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John Dew wrote:
Oh dear I wish you hadnt started this thread Nick:sad:  Now I am sorely tempted although I know from a number of failed and discarded attempts I am totally useless at soldering metal kits

I must say it does look a very well designed kit:hmm

On the other hand Murphys law indicates that now Hornby or perhaps Hattons will announce a new RTR version.
:pedal 


Never give up John. You are a master with card and electronics so why not soldering?

I've been waiting for someone to do a new RTR version for a few years now. I'm sure it will happen one day but even if one were announced today it would be two years before we could buy it. I'd rather get on with it now.



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 Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2015 01:39 am
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pnwood
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aberdare wrote:
Hi Nick

I'll be following your progress quite keenly on this one as I have an old K's kit that I picked up for a few pounds at a Toy fair around 10 years ago, it's unpainted and really needs rebuilding as it was glued together (badly). I had looked at this chassis kit and wondered what it was like to build and now I will know.

Soldering holds no fears for me as some of the first kits I built were brass and nickel silver, the confidence of youth back then to tackle anything served me well as the skills learnt stayed with me.


Great work so far.

Jim


Thanks Jim. The kit is designed for the Mainline / Hornby model but I'm sure that a man with your talents could make it work.

Soldering is holding much less fear for me these days. If I'm honest it wasn't really the soldering that bothered me too much, well maybe a little, The fear was more about getting everything square and running properly. I'm still worried about that !!!!



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 Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2015 04:37 pm
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Hi Nick,
I'm also watching with interest, as I have a Hornby model waiting conversion to EM. I was going down the route of just replacing the tender drive (and keeping the coal mountain),but I'll hold off while you do the conversion. 
What gear ratio are you using with that small motor?
Nigel



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 Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2015 05:32 pm
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pnwood
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Hi Nigel

The motor is a Mashima 1024. There is nothing on the packaging to suggest what the gear ratio is but I remember when I bought it I had options, I believe I decided on 1:40



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 Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2015 08:20 pm
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Hi Nick,

1:40 and a 1024 should be fine for slow running and a few wagons. I also have a K's Dean 0-6-0 outside frame that could benefit from a new chassis. Not sure about fitting the High Level chassis though (there are other issues related to EM, and the slightly under-scale Keyser moldings due to white metal shrinkage), so double interest from me in your build.

My previous comment re rubber tires was related to the Mainline/Hornby tender wheels, not the engine driving wheels.

Nigel



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 Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2015 09:12 pm
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Without Prejudice:lol:

Do you need a special tool to do the folding?

Cheers



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 Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2015 09:24 pm
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pnwood
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BCDR wrote:
Hi Nick,

1:40 and a 1024 should be fine for slow running and a few wagons. I also have a K's Dean 0-6-0 outside frame that could benefit from a new chassis. Not sure about fitting the High Level chassis though (there are other issues related to EM, and the slightly under-scale Keyser moldings due to white metal shrinkage), so double interest from me in your build.

My previous comment re rubber tires was related to the Mainline/Hornby tender wheels, not the engine driving wheels.

Nigel


The High Level Chassis can be built for OO EM or P4 but appreciate the clearance on the K's body may not be the same as the Mainline / Hornby model. When I get round to doing the loco if you want any dimensions let me know.

I'm not sure about the Hornby model but the mainline one I have does not have any traction tyres on either tender or loco. I was just making the point that I wouldn't have any loco on the layout that was fitted with them.



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 Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2015 09:30 pm
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pnwood
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John Dew wrote:
Without Prejudice:lol:

Do you need a special tool to do the folding?

Cheers


Not so far John. I have some bending bars but didn't use them. All I've needed so far is either a pair of smooth faced long nosed pliers and a straight edge.



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 Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2015 09:53 pm
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Thanks Nick (I think:lol:)

A couple of other questions if I may

(1) When you have a minute could you let me know the part refs you got from Alan Gibson....I assume that is Tender Wheels (I think I can just see the Part#) and wheels and coupling rods for the loco?

(2) What are you doing about pick ups and will you be adding tender pick ups?


Still without prejudice:roll:



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