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Flying Scotsman Update - Heritage Railways - The Prototype. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Sun Mar 8th, 2015 01:58 pm
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Gary
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Ok, enough Ferraris for a moment... :roll: Here is the latest update on the Flying Scotsman :

http://www.flyingscotsman.org.uk/see/photos.aspx

Cheers, Gary.



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 Posted: Mon Mar 9th, 2015 12:15 pm
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col.stephens
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When you 'restore' something, such as the Flying Scotsman, or the Cutty Sark, at what point does it cease to be the original object and become a total rebuild, i.e. a new object just bearing the name of the original? There seem to be an awful lot of 'new bits' being made for this locomotive.

Terry

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 Posted: Mon Mar 9th, 2015 01:27 pm
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gormo
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Just depends on how you look at it.

When the engine was relatively new and in service....if the wheels fell off and they put new wheels on or indeed had to make new wheels....isn`t that the same thing??? It`s not the original engine.

The only difference being the time factor now. It`s many years since she was new.

The necessary replacement parts to get the engine roadworthy surely would be made to the same specs or possibly improved, but I would imagine everything that is replaced is identical to the original.

Without the rebuilds we wouldn`t be able to enjoy these old machines today.

:cheers  Gormo



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 Posted: Mon Mar 9th, 2015 10:57 pm
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jakesdad13
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Like Bills sweeping brush thats had 4 handles and 3 new heads and is still as good as when he bought it 20 years ago she still going strong and long may she do so, ( clubman estate or 1275GT for me ) :mutley:mutley Pete.



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 Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 01:14 am
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shunter1
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Nice one Gary,Its good to see the real thing in construction.
Now if they follow LNWR loco painting in practice it will probably take longer than the rebuild.
Cheers,
Derek.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 01:34 am
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col.stephens
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Gormo said, "Without the rebuilds we wouldn`t be able to enjoy these old machines today."

But they are no longer old machines.  That was my point.  Are we in fact enjoying new machines with old names?

Terry

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 Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 09:57 am
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gormo
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 G`day Folks,

 We are only enjoying new machines with old names if nothing at all remains of the original engine.

 This is the problem with any type of restoration. How do you classify it. In my book a restoration begins with what`s left of the original. What is working is used and what is not working is either repaired / restored or replaced. Ideally for me at least 80% of the original remains in good enough condition to be restored. This may not always be the case though, and one must make a judgement call on whether the task is worth doing.

 On the other hand if there is nothing left of the original and copies are made, well obviously this is a copy and has no heritage to it`s name.......an imposter. Imposters or copies in most things are just that.....no heritage with them....no link to the past and therefore are OK to look at but not held in high regard as a restoration would be to me.

 I reckon everybody has their own opinion about such things and this can lead to feelings and emotions about what is right and what is wrong. It`s one of those subjects where you will rarely achieve consensus.

  :cheers  Gormo



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 Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 11:59 am
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col.stephens
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Here's something for you to consider folks. There is a trend at present of building new steam locos. At what point do they adopt the term 'heritage'? Or will they never be viewed as historic items? They will always be out of sinc with their true place in history.

Terry

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 Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 01:13 pm
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Petermac
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When they're old, and if they're "iconic" enough, they'll become heritage Terry.  As far as Tornado is concerned, I'll be "heritage" long before she is ..................:lol::lol::thumbs

Cars seem to have got it better sorted by fixing dates.   "Veteran" - manufactured up to December 1918,  "Vintage" - manufactured between 1919 and 1930, "Post-Vintage Thoroughbred" - for the "interesting marques" that fell into neither of these age ranges and finally, "Classic" for "popular cars" no longer in production.  With cars, to have any real value, they have to be "original" although obviously they can be "reconditioned".

We have "heritage" stuff from the 50's and maybe even later so I'm not sure what "heritage" actually means ..............:roll::roll::roll:



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 Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 01:36 pm
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Ed
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BR Britannia class (Class 7), built early 1950s and well within living memory of a lot of people.

Heritage or no?

Ed



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 Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 02:07 pm
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shunter1
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I don't mind if a steam loco is a new rebuild of original drawings,A renovated original or just gets a few new fittings.If it steams and is of the same design thats good enough for me.Regarding loco numbers Railway companies from before the turn of the 20th century gave scrapped loco numbers and names to new machines so there is a tradition for it.
Cheers Derek.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2015 03:09 pm
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Gary
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All restorations at some point will have new parts added regardless. It comes down to 'how available are the parts' for the restoration/overhaul. Whether it be a locomotive or a motor vehicle, new parts are just 'replacement parts'. How many locomotives after many years of service were retired as original locomotives ? Probably not a lot. At one stage or another, parts would have been exchanged between locomotive just to keep that locomotive in service. Now if one of these particular locomotives are preserved, been put through a rebuild/refurbishment/overhaul process, does that mean it isn't original, or does it mean it is in original condition when retired ?

Regardless of the how the restoration/overhaul is done, to many, it still has the sole of the former locomotive that many grew up with. It would be a completely different story if they renumbered a loco of the same class... :It's a no no

Cheers, Gary.

 



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 Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2015 03:06 am
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Gary
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Here are a couple more updated links regarding the rebuild and where the Scotsman will be in 2016.

http://www.flyingscotsman.org.uk/see/photos.aspx

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/13773203.Behind_the_scenes_at_the_rebuilding_of_the_Flying_Scotman/

http://www.flyingscotsman.org.uk/scotsman-season.aspx 

The first outing will be held on 9-10 and 16-17 January 2016 at the East Lancashire Railway.

Cheers, Gary.



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 Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2015 03:49 am
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Ted_
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Reminds me of "Triggers Brush" in Only Fools and Horses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUl6PooveJE



Fantastic to see the old king of the rails getting fit and well again though!



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Ted
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 Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2015 11:51 am
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Petermac
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At £4m, I do wonder if it might have been better just to leave her on static display at the NRM....................at least we'd be looking at more of the "old" girl ..........:roll::roll::roll:

A new one (a la Tornado) would probably have been far cheaper to build from scratch.



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 Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2015 01:29 pm
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It's an ongoing question. I prefer to use the term refurbish when applied to cars  for example. You see cars advertised as being fully restored and "original".But the process of restoration destroys the history. For example, I have a 1965 RR Silver Cloud 3. I'm only the second owner and I've looked after her for over 40 years. She now has a bigger, more efficient engine from a later model as well as disc brakes on the front. She also has a comprehensive security system fitted and a high quality sound system. But I still have all the original parts and a weeks work wiil put it back to as built. The paint is still original as, but getting thin in places. Do I get her resprayed? Don't know. She shows she's not a field queen.



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 Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2015 01:52 pm
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Petermac
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Wow - a Silver Cloud. :shock::shock:

To me, one of the last "great" Rolls models.

I didn't think you could do much yourself with those cars without the specialist RR equipment .................:roll::roll:



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 Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2015 02:17 pm
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You'd be surprised how much you can do yourself. When I replaced the engine and gearbox, it was simply spanner work to remove the front end to do the job. The biggest problem I have now  is anno domini. The bonnet opens along the spine and its a fair stretch to get over the wings. Very few special tools are needed. As she now has fuel injection instead of carbs it's easier to keep in tune. I reckon that,apart from fuel at an average of 12 mpg, she's the cheapest car I've run.   



For your pleasure. No, it's not my house!



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