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Decoder fitting for a Bachmann Lord Nelson - DCC - Tutorials - Getting You Started. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Mon Jul 3rd, 2017 11:03 am
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Passed Driver
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Hi Nigel. Thank you for your reply. In my answer to Max, I outlined the reason for this,I was "just following the shopping list in the Model Rail". Being an amateur in fitting DCC to non ready Hornby Locos, I did not want to "Screw Up" a brand new Decoder before I got it to work. I do believe the "stay alive is built into the Decoder , not a separate entity". The fitting of the DCC.socket, and plugging in the the Decoder, gives Heavy Handed beginners like myself a fair chance too. But of course that is why I joined the forum, to get expert opinions. All the best. Kevin



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 Posted: Tue Jul 4th, 2017 08:01 pm
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Hi Kevin,

A decoder with an integrated capacitor is going to be small and is definitely there to keep the sound and lights going and not much else. A decent sized capacitor such as the ESU 54671 with 1F is big enough to power lights, sound and the motor and keep the locomotive going for quite some time. That can be problematic if you have dead track sections at the end of sidings or signals that cut track power when red to prevent collisions and your attention and controller is looking after another locomotive. That locomotive just keeps on running (unless you have ABC). It also has to be soldered to the decoder (that's a job for the steady of hand and nerves of steel), and getting it into the body shell could be problematic.(according to ESU it's 15.7 mm x 9.7 mm x 13 mm, definitely a job for the big file or the mill on most locomotives, and it costs $40 over here, add that to the cost of the decoder...).

I used to have an old Mainline Warship with DCC sound that had pick up on 2 wheels on one side at one end, the opposite 2 wheels on the other (it now has power from all wheels). Absolutely no problems with powered frogs.Same for my old LIMA diesel railcars. Long insulfrogs would stop them both dead however. I've also used short wheelbase 0-4-0 Tenshodo SPUDs and 0-4-0 Black Beetle power trucks successfully with DCC sound, again, live frogs are fine, dead ones need to be shorter than the wheelbase. So short 0-4-0 (or 0-6-0) drives really don't need capacitors as long as there is electrical continuity. Bit of planning and consideration to the wheelbase of what will be running pays off here.

Clean track, wheels and pick-ups, and electrical continuity up to DCC standards through turnouts and the frogs is cheaper. Seems to be a bit of a band-aid solution to an easily addressed problem.

Nigel



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 Posted: Tue Jul 4th, 2017 08:58 pm
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Passed Driver wrote: Hi Nigel.  Thank you.  But when I hooked up my "entry level" DC Decoder to the Puzzle Yard track all of the dirty"Half Dozen" eBay locos had no trouble negotiating the points at a "Crawl Pace" . But I prefer the sound of Locos either the Steam locos Chuffing along or Gurgling (or whatever you call it) as the Diesels do.All the best. KevinHi Nigel.  Thank you for your reply.   My mention of the "Stay Alive" only came from the George Dent article in the magazine Model Rail .As far as running two or more Locos at one time is concerned , I totally agree with your advice. I did write in one thread about a second Loco in another siding "Creeping Forward" Unexpected.But I am , it would seem, to be "light years away" from having a layout any bigger that either of my Portable puzzle Planks. The larger of the two being 14inches by 48 inches. After the purchase of the Lanarkshire Models track cleaner along with the I P A. And of course , I nearly forgot the Woodland Scenis wheel cleaner, the Pugs really run  up and down that. The fact that the Pugs run through the points without trouble, can't be that bad. By the way my planks haven't got nor likely to have signals, that luxury would come with a big layout, but while I suffer from the confines, as many U K Rail fans suffer, a large Layout room/ Man Cave is unlikely. This ABC you mention? I don't know what that is about, there was a funny story about ABC when Barbara Castle was minister of transport, but I sure she didn't have anything to do with model railways. I will have to Google that.   All the best. Kevin



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 Posted: Tue Jul 4th, 2017 10:07 pm
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I'm going to throw a spanner in the works here.

Paul Chetter, of this parish, fitted a Zimo decoder and "super cap" into a Hornby Class 08 shunter and, for half the time, it doesn't need power !!!

My track laying is far from perfect and cleanliness is about as far from Maxmill as Godliness is.  It's in an attic with loads of dust, is seldom cleaned properly and loco wheels look like non-stick pans............

Put the 08 on the rails and she goes like a dream.  The chip is set for prototype slow running but I can even lift it off the rails and she'll continue to run on the baseboard for at least 12 inches, if not further.

I also have a "Paul Chetter" Pannier but there was no room for the "super cap".  It runs well enough but doesn't come close to the 08.  He also did a Hornby J50 for me, again without "super cap", and that alas, is disappointing on my track.



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 Posted: Tue Jul 4th, 2017 11:00 pm
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Passed Driver wrote: Hi Nigel.  Thank you.  But when I hooked up my "entry level" DC Decoder to the Puzzle Yard track all of the dirty"Half Dozen" eBay locos had no trouble negotiating the points at a "Crawl Pace" . But I prefer the sound of Locos either the Steam locos Chuffing along or Gurgling (or whatever you call it) as the Diesels do.All the best. KevinHi Petermac.   I don't want to sound repetive?? But, Considering my "China Made" 0-4-0 Railroad Loco's have no trouble in negotiating my pointwork.My only mention of "stay alive" was per the Model Rail article. Which incidently includes Head and Tail Lamps.
 It would seem that the stay alive is just for the Lamps.   All the best. Kevin

PS.  Another view on Hornby 0-4-0. Pug, or Pug type Loco and DCC has come my way, please do excuse my ignorance, but if you type. robsrailwaymodelling.co.uk/rrm/hornby-class06dccconversion/  In the correct place you will find a similar job with words and photos. By thr author. Kevin



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 Posted: Wed Jul 5th, 2017 02:36 am
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Petermac wrote: I'm going to throw a spanner in the works here.

Paul Chetter, of this parish, fitted a Zimo decoder and "super cap" into a Hornby Class 08 shunter and, for half the time, it doesn't need power !!!

My track laying is far from perfect and cleanliness is about as far from Maxmill as Godliness is.  It's in an attic with loads of dust, is seldom cleaned properly and loco wheels look like non-stick pans............

Put the 08 on the rails and she goes like a dream.  The chip is set for prototype slow running but I can even lift it off the rails and she'll continue to run on the baseboard for at least 12 inches, if not further.

I also have a "Paul Chetter" Pannier but there was no room for the "super cap".  It runs well enough but doesn't come close to the 08.  He also did a Hornby J50 for me, again without "super cap", and that alas, is disappointing on my track.

Hi 'Petermac,

That I think is the big 6800 µF capacitor (at 20x15.5x5.mm it's bigger than the ESU one). You could probably get rid of 12" of track with that one (it's rated for around 1.5 seconds in OO).  I stuck a LiPo battery and associated electrickery  in my Collett Goods recently - 1 hour without power. Different energy densities.

Nigel



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 Posted: Wed Jul 5th, 2017 11:33 am
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Hi Nigel    This is all very well? But where are model railways going ? Clearly not round in circles.it is all getting very technical, weren't model railways meant to be child's play? a bit of fun/ recreation ? I returned to the hobby to avoid watching the repeated programmes on television . Are all these facts published in books available at the library? Or are they online somewhere?     All the best. Kevin



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 Posted: Wed Jul 5th, 2017 12:21 pm
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Shouldn’t all these recent posts about stay alive etc. really be on a separate thread, as Jeff’s original thread was a DCC tutorial about fitting a decoder to a split chassis Bachmann Lord Nelson.


Could be a bit confusing if you pick this thread up via the DCC - Tutorials - Getting You Started forum.


Just a thought.



Ed



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 Posted: Wed Jul 5th, 2017 12:33 pm
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Hi Ed.   Good point, but, this thread seems to have been " Hijacked all along the line". I joined in at the photo of a Loco chassis that was being converted, with my question, then it really got confused with the "stay alive".Who knows where it will go next?    All the best. Kevin



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 Posted: Wed Jul 5th, 2017 03:30 pm
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Passed Driver wrote: Hi Ed.   Good point, but, this thread seems to have been " Hijacked all along the line". I joined in at the photo of a Loco chassis that was being converted, with my question, then it really got confused with the "stay alive".Who knows where it will go next?    All the best. Kevin
Hopefully back to Decoder fitting for a Bachmann Lord Nelson :)

Cheers everyone,

Bill



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 Posted: Wed Jul 5th, 2017 05:22 pm
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Hi Bill.  Let's hope so? But there is more room for manoeuvre in a big Loco , don't forget the little guys, and gals.Let them get a look in?    All the best. Kevin



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 Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2017 05:49 am
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Ed wrote: Shouldn’t all these recent posts about stay alive etc. really be on a separate thread, as Jeff’s original thread was a DCC tutorial about fitting a decoder to a split chassis Bachmann Lord Nelson.


Could be a bit confusing if you pick this thread up via the DCC - Tutorials - Getting You Started forum.


Just a thought.



Ed

 I was thinking along the same lines myself, Ed. Not so much because I object to my thread being hijacked (I don't! I am a notorious thread hijacker myself!), but more so that others can easily find things they know they've seen somewhere, but wouldn't think to look under "Lord Nelson".

Mods?



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 Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2017 11:43 am
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Hi Jeff.   I refer you to an earlier thread? I remember about Jeffs(S R mans workbench) I enquired about a Hornby GWR Loco No 101 (Holden?) built on an unlikely 0-4-0 Pug chassis? You rightly said that it definitely wasn't DCC ready, which I knew,
and would have to be hard wired. But then somehow things went " Awry" and the Pug to DCC came along.
And as you seem to be one of the few regular DCC project contributors, the signals got crossed? And Bang! :mutley a derailment.    All the best.  Kevin



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