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Converting the Midland 0-6-0 2F to EM - Kit Bashing - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Tue Dec 9th, 2014 02:14 am
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Brossard
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I'm at it again.  While I wait for paint to dry, I thought I'd take a look at this model that I've had for quite some time.

These locos were first built with round top boilers starting in about 1885.  Over the years they acquired belpaire boilers and lasted into the BR era.

Again, I bought this model (and it cost quite a lot) using the rationale that it would give me a head start on the EM gauge loco that I wanted.  Looking at it again this evening I have to admit, it does look very good.




The loco body is whitemetal, the tender is plastic.  Not sure about those rods, I will have to consult my books.

Taking it apart we see this:




The motor and gearbox look to be similar to the Saddle Tank which proved to be unsuitable.  I'll take a closer look and decide as things move forward.

Wheels are Markits which suit me down to the ground.  I have EM axles for these.

The tender chassis is pretty basic, the wheels one side are uninsulated extending electrical pickup.

My first job was to cut the wire to the tender.  The chassis will not be used for this build.

I removed the wheels and found that they appear to be Markits and correct for EM.

I insulated three wheels by knocking out a brass bushing and replacing it with some plastic bushes from spare wheels.  The pinpoints on the axles were cut off since the new chassis will have inside bearings.

I confirmed that the wheelbase is 6' 6" x 6' 6" and, oh joy, I have a Comet chassis kit:




That's all for now.

John



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 Posted: Tue Dec 9th, 2014 02:02 pm
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shunter1
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Wow you are on a roll John.Lovely little loco that 2F.
Best of luck with this rebuild.
Derek.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 9th, 2014 02:08 pm
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Brossard
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Yes, busy as a beaver.  I'm conscious of the need to get as much done as I can.  No telling when I'll lose my mojo again.

John



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 Posted: Tue Dec 9th, 2014 02:13 pm
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shunter1
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:):)Stay away from the games and you will be fine. ;-).

Any thoughts on your railway track design yet.

Cheers,

Derek.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 9th, 2014 02:32 pm
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Brossard
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Empire has done a good job of that - just when I get to the good part, it usually gets a fatal error of some sort preventing me from continuing.

As for a layout, I keep swinging from one extreme to the other.  A small single track branchline like Karl Crowther's Kentside

http://www.trainweb.org/drs/Kentside.htm

to something like Heckmondwyke.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russelliott/nlg-heck-model-pics.html

There was a very good EM layout on the circuit here called "Patrick Brompton" - a circular layout featuring a branchline and very well executed.  I can't find a link unfortunately.

John

 



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 Posted: Tue Dec 9th, 2014 03:39 pm
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For my money its got to be Heckmondwyke style.Of course I am a fan of the larger builds.Depends John on your basement and what you can fit in.
Games crashing are a pain and puts one off.
Cheers,
Derek.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 9th, 2014 04:52 pm
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Brossard
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I've actually done some prelim planning and Heckmondwyke is 20' x 9', exactly the area I have in the basement.  :hmm

The other thing that's complicating matters is that I like to exhibit.  Heckmondwyke is just too big.  I s'pose I'll have to do one of each.  :roll:

John



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 Posted: Tue Dec 9th, 2014 09:19 pm
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:)Of course you will have to have a couple of railways John.

The big build in the basement.I like that 9ft width gives one leeway for decent radius curves in EM.

Now the other railway for exibitions.Your branch line job in 0 gauge should fit the bill fine scale 33mm gauge of course.

Well you did mention an interest in 0 gauge :mutley.I must confess its a lovely scale to work in.However I quit it because I like mainline railway running and one would need an aircraft hanger for a decent circuit.Otherwise one is stuck with an end to end with fiddle yard.Its the min 6ft radius curves that are space killers.But thats just me.Slaters 7mm scale wheels are okay and have a Markit type axle.Cast wheels cost a fortune.

Anyway thats all if I keep writing 0 gauge I may get tempted again :):).

Cheers,

Derek. 

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 Posted: Tue Dec 9th, 2014 09:34 pm
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You're a wicked evil man Derek, and it being Christmas too :It's a no no  You'll be getting coal in your stocking for leading poor little me astray with talk of O gauge.

Actually, Dapol's foray into affordable O gauge gave me hopes of doing something, but the models have come in for so much criticism, I think I'll pass.

I spent all day getting the Comet tender chassis frames set up for CSB.  :shock:  I was muttering to myself that with so much self inflicted work, I might as well be doing P4.

John



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 Posted: Tue Dec 9th, 2014 09:48 pm
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:mutley:mutleyIts only an idle post John.Not that I mind coal in my christmas stocking :mutley.

Glad you got that tender chassis sorted and kit bashing can be a trial to put it mildly.

I always found it hard to get into the kit designers head when it came to some of their builds.

P4 with diesels or inside cylinder locos can be managed,When it comes to outside valve gear I get lost.

Anyway you are doing great with your EM stock and one day they will be rolling on your railway.

Cheers,

Derek.

PS:I have a load of C&L turnout drawings in EM if you fancy them will post them.

Cheers,

Derek.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 9th, 2014 10:22 pm
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Brossard
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It occurred to me that coal would be a useful gift for you. :cool:

If I had built the Comet kit as intended, it wouldn't have been difficult at all.  My thought was though, if I don't spring the tender, I'll have a nice sprung loco hauling a tender that rattles through points.

Agree about P4 - you can get drop in wheel sets for many diesels for a quick conversion.  Steam locos are a different matter.

Thanks for the offer of the C&L templates, I have a set though.  Two sets if you count those from EMGS.  Anyway, I need to study Templot at some stage.

John



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 Posted: Wed Dec 10th, 2014 02:30 pm
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You seem well prepared for this EM gauge venture John.
I too need to study Templot in depth only scratched the surface so far.I must also study that Comet Jinty chassis and get the iron out as the Bachman one is the worse for wear with all the experiments.
Cheers,
Derek.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 10th, 2014 04:31 pm
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I do like a challenge.

You can review my Jinty thread to learn how not to do the Comet chassis.  It'll be interesting to compare notes.

My chassis that was the result of experiments is in rough shape too.  I did try the Bachmann motor in a gearbox but the fixing holes aren't the same.  I'll have to have a think.

This morning I put the 2F tender frames together.  I actually used that wooden jig I showed you in the Jinty thread - it still has its' uses.  It's all a great faff.  I just washed it and will let it dry.

John



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 Posted: Wed Dec 10th, 2014 05:58 pm
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I got the tender erected and did a trial fit and test run.




It was a lot of work setting this up for springing and, looking back with a critical eye, I wouldn't do it with a Comet tender again.  The incremental improvement in running isn't worth the enormous labour.  Live and learn as I've said before.

Nevertheless, the chassis does run nicely.

While I was at it, I made sure I could fix the chassis to the tender body:




Quite good I think.  It still needs brakes which were missing on the original model.

Next step is to paint the chassis.

John



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 Posted: Thu Dec 11th, 2014 04:05 pm
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The tender chassis is in the paint shop.

Meanwhile, I wanted to look at the loco chassis a bit more closely.

I removed the wheels and found that the brakes were loose in a couple of places - rushed or sloppy soldering I guess.

Here's the main components:




The brakes and pull rods are one piece brass, bent to shape.  I can work with that.

Couplings are plain and one piece, overlapping at the center for articulation.  Not happy with that.  I think I'll need to laminate some spare rods over them.

Gearbox looks reasonable but, alas, the final drive is integral with the frames so I won't be able to use that.  I can salvage the motor though.  I anticipated this and have a gearbox and motor on order from High Level.

I disassembled the frames next:




The brass frames are secured to the milled brass block with tiny screws.  The center hole is oval to allow the center wheels to spring.  Axle holes also act as bearings being a slop fit, but not too sloppy, to the axles.

I'm slightly more impressed with the design of this chassis than I was with the L&Y ST.

I will use the frames for my conversion and it looks as though I'll have to use a fret saw to cut slots for hornguides because springs are in the way.  I will probably need to add material above the bearing holes because once the hornguide slots are done, there will be very little meat.

John



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 Posted: Thu Dec 11th, 2014 10:32 pm
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shunter1
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Hi John,I had a good study of your post that tender worked out well,However as you stated a lot of work for little obvious reward.Lets face it if we spring the tenders then might as well apply that thinking to every item of rolling stock pulled by the loco ?.
Looks like the loco chassis is another challange to your skills.The oval centre axle slots I think are an old method of compensation.When one thinks of it a centre sprung axle about covers most track bumps with 6 wheel jobs.
Best of luck with the project.
Derek.

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 Posted: Thu Dec 11th, 2014 10:40 pm
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Brossard
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Agree, I like to explore the envelope and sometimes have to retreat inside it.  Some of my wagons are sprung but many are rigid as well.  I'll spring if the hardware exists, if not, I'll leave it. 

Yes, the idea of this quasi compensation goes back to the 60s when Hornby were doing it.  My fairly recent Bachmann 08 has a sprung center axle.

John



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 Posted: Fri Dec 12th, 2014 03:04 pm
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Brossard
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This morning I fitted the wheels and brakes to the tender chassis:




It's always a bit of a fiddle to get everything sort of square and looking reasonably neat.  With soldered bits you can have as many do overs as you like.

John



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 Posted: Fri Dec 12th, 2014 04:47 pm
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Now that chassis is looking very neat John.
While searching through old boxes I came across some packets of Slaters 4mm scale plastic brake blocks which I must have bought for some reason.I might check them against the ones on the frets if I run into trouble.
Cheers,
Derek.

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 Posted: Fri Dec 12th, 2014 04:55 pm
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Brossard
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There's an argument to be made about the use of plastic brake blocks, particularly in the case of compensated or sprung chassis.  I have some Gibson examples.  DCC seems especially sensitive to shorts.  For the 3F, the kit gives you the option to re-use the plastic blocks or add etched ones.

John



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