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Converting the Bachmann 3F to EM - Kit Bashing - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Mon Dec 15th, 2014 11:48 pm
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shunter1
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Okay John,Will fit the gears and motor.
That tender looks a great success and the buffer height is perfect.The vac pipe looks fine to me.
Could you do me a favour and show a photo of the tender underside.I want to get a look at your kaydee coupling fixing and get an idea of position position.
Cheers,
Derek.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 15th, 2014 11:59 pm
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Brossard
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Actually Derek, I used the existing hole from the NEM coupling attachment.




I sourced the screw from my bits and bobs box.  I packed it with some plastic strip for, I think, a total of 0.100".

Quite pleased today, the postie has been generous.  I got 3 gearboxes and motors from High Level, some bits and pieces from Eileen's and some nice etched Shirescenes fire irons from Dart Castings.  :)

John



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 Posted: Tue Dec 16th, 2014 01:44 am
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shunter1
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:)Thanks John for the photo and info.

You had a good post day with things arriving.

Snap.My cork roll and coupling rods from brassmaster for my Prince of Wales loco kit arrived.

A couple of photo's of gearbox and motor with worm and gears fitted.Sorry only one upside down one tomorrow the light should be better for more detailed shots.

The gears turn nice and free using the motor shaft to turn them.I left about 0.85mm of shaft free for float between worm and motor.Also you only need to use 1 spacing washer on the top stub axle anymore and it can cause jams.

Derek.







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 Posted: Tue Dec 16th, 2014 03:10 am
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Brossard
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We're both making good progress it seems.  Will you start your P of W now?

John



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 Posted: Tue Dec 16th, 2014 03:47 am
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shunter1
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Hi John,Err not yet,There is a Jinty to get working.Then there is also a G 0-8-0 Brassmaster kit round top boiler.
A coal tank 0-6-2.
Plus baseboards to build and track to make up.cobalt point motors digital to get.The list seem endless.
Going to be very busy in 2015.
Cheers,
Derek.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 16th, 2014 04:03 am
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Brossard
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I know exactly what you mean.  There's this 3F, then the Saddle Tank, the 2F and after that I want to convert my Fowler 0-8-0 7F.  Let's not forget the 4F, 8F and G2.  :shock:  I could go on but it's depressing how much there is to do.

John



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 Posted: Tue Dec 16th, 2014 11:17 pm
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Brossard
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I spent some time this morning sorting through motors and gearboxes.  I still have couple of motors without the right size of GB and a couple of GBs without the right size worm.  I did salvage the 00Works motors. 

I tried to salvage a Bachmann motor from the Jinty but found that the mounting hole centers are way different from the standard - something I could fix.  But I also found that the mounting holes themselves were non standard and wasted a lot of time hunting for screws that I could use.  I finally gave up on that.

So, after that, I finally installed the rods on the chassis and gave it a run on the test track - it's great!.



John



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 Posted: Wed Dec 17th, 2014 01:03 am
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shunter1
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Nice one John,Good to see another runner.
Those Bachman motors seem to be installed on their sides,Anyway I have never yet found any of the big manufacturers produce something easy to use for other projects.Odd size axles,odd screw fittings,non standard gear shafts,Different crankpins,Wheel bosses etc.I guess they don't want people swapping around their products.Talking of odd sizes the worm on the Markit gearbox had its shaft hole undersize had to drill it out to get it to 1.5mm as stated on the packet.
I blame this Christmas season always something going wrong.
Sorry John its been one of those days.
Derek.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 17th, 2014 02:27 am
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Brossard
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Quite agree about that.  They obviously don't want their stuff being used elsewhere and that's just mean.  B don't use fixing screws.  Very annoying, these motors are very good.  I'll have to keep looking for some suitable screws.  In one of my motor packs, I got spare fixing screws, two large and two small - none of which fit :twisted:.

I think it's fairly normal for things to be undersize.  I've been measuring 1.5mm nom. gearshafts and they come out at ~ 1.3mm.  However the HL worm is a nice sliding fit onto the shaft.  You can fix an undersize bore - oversize is whole 'nother issue.

John

 



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 Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2014 12:12 am
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Brossard
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After much backing and filling, I got the loco running under its' own steam today.  It was a struggle, mostly of my own making.  When I went to install the wiring harness, I realized with a jolt that I didn't know which wires went to the motor and which went to the wipers - they being all black. :twisted:

I spent a happy hour or so back checking through the connector and boards in the tender until I figured out that there are points marked "R" and "M" for rail and motor on the decoder board.  I spliced wires of the appropriate colour so that I didn't get lost again.

Anyway, I have the decoder installed and all seems well.

I also prepped the brake pull rods.

John



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 Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2014 05:03 am
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Brossard
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I thought there might be interest in seeing how the loco is wired:




Wiper pads are copper clad sleeper and wipers are coiled 0.31mm PB wire.  I showed these earlier.

Pads were fixed to the keeper plate with cyano.

Bus bars from 0.45mm NS wire were soldered in place using 60/40 solder and rosin flux.  This cleans up with Methyl Hydrate (it does make a sticky mess).  Note the lower bus has a bend to clear the gear.

Wires from the connector were soldered to the bus bars and covered with heatshrink.  I used contact cement to stick the wires to the rear pickup pad.

My only niggle is that the wipers may be a bit tight, but these can be tweaked as I do more testing.

One other point with models that have a tender connector and loose coupling pin, is that often the tender dangles from the connector stressing the wires.  I had a wire pop out of the connector on my Black 5 - fortunately I could push it back and secure with contact cement.  I've done the same here - before the wire(s) come(s) out.  The cement is stress relief.  The coupling pin should have a ring glued to its' end to stop the drawbar from coming out.

John

 

 



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 Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2014 12:22 pm
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Looks like the pick ups are contacting the wheel rims, not the wheel backs John.

Any particular reason for that.

I ask as I need to attach some new pick ups to an old Jinty.


Ed



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 Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2014 04:51 pm
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Brossard
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Right Ed, they are.  There's a school of thought that says if you have the wipers contact the rims, you get better and more reliable contact.  Rims don't get dirty like wheels backs.  This is the first time I've used this.

Good luck with the wipers for your Jinty.  Hope you show us the result.

John



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 Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2014 05:46 pm
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Hi John

That makes sense, think I'll give it a go on the rims. Thanks for that.

Unfortunately the Jinty keeps slipping down the 'to do' list.


Ed



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 Posted: Wed Dec 24th, 2014 05:51 pm
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shunter1
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Very neat pick up arrangement John.
I guess the wheel rims will not saw through the pickup wire,s.Just playing the devils advocate.Of course PB is a good hard material and you could end up with P4 rims.Anyway enough of the negative jokes.Job looks great.
Cheers,
Derek.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 24th, 2014 08:05 pm
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Brossard
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Thanks Derek, as I said it's the first time I've used these.  The instructions recommend them and the MRJ reviewer also used them.  My only concern is that they may exert more friction on the rims so I may need to tweak.
Tony Wright claims that PB can soften (or anneal I suppose) when exposed to shorting and arcing and, for that reason he prefers NS.
John



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 Posted: Thu Jan 8th, 2015 11:08 pm
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Brossard
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I got back to this today.

I had stuck on the sandboxes before the holidays and finished these off by gluing the pipes in.  Brassmasters say that the Bachmann sandboxes are the correct shape.  I removed 1mm from the backs though because they seemed awfully close to the rods.

Next came the brakes.  You have the choice of using etched ones or re-using the Bachmann brakes that were cut off the old keeper plate.  I opted for plastic brakes to eliminate any chance of shorting.  These needed to have a 0.032" hole drilled to take the hanger rod.

I decided to test the chassis after putting these on, a good thing I did, because things didn't run at all well.  To cut a long story short, I finally sussed that the hanger rods were probably touching the wheel flanges intermittently (remember the wheels are sprung).  Markits flanges are not as fine as Ultrascale so this is likely a problem of my own making.  My solution, after taking off the brakes, was to bend the hanger rods away from the wheels.  Testing after this proved that things were fine.

During test, things got confused because I had an intermittent short from the tender.  After several of these and the decoder losing its' mind (that put the wind up), I had a light go on and realised that the guard irons were probably touching the rails.  After shortening these slightly, things seem OK.

I have reattached the brakes and the chassis is in the paint shop for wheel painting.

John



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 Posted: Fri Jan 9th, 2015 06:03 pm
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shunter1
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Thats progress John after the usual battle.I got caught a while ago with sand pipes catching odd bits of track.Forgot to bend them up to the correct angle.Always something to test our patience.
Regards,
Derek.

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 Posted: Fri Jan 9th, 2015 06:53 pm
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Brossard
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I've said before that every step with these builds is a problem to be solved.  We get there eventually but patience really is required.  The urge to throw the whole thing across the room must be resisted.

John



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 Posted: Thu Jan 15th, 2015 12:42 am
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Brossard
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I've been soldiering on with this project for the last several days.  My main issue has been intermittent shorts that seem to manifest as runaway and reverting to the factory state - the loco address keeps going back to 3.  I rarely have a hard short.

I did find an issue with the tender where, when the axles are depressed, there's a short due to brakes touching wheels.:twisted:  I have fixed this by levering the brakes away from the wheels. 

However, running is still sporadic - it will run smoothly for a short while then judder or simply stop.  It will go again but only after a short while so I'm thinking maybe the decoder is tripping due to overheat/overload - a sign of short I think.

I have checked that the drivers are not shorting to the axles (I have had Markits wheels develop a short between tyre and wheel)  and my wipers seem good.

I have to suspect my wiring and fixing will require stripping that out and starting again methinks. :roll:

The coupling rod nuts still foul on the body, so more work to do there.

John



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