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Glebe Street - Trams. - Other Areas. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 06:23 pm
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The Bankie
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Hi Guys
I’m wasn't certain where this should go, Members layouts or in the Paper and card Trams thread. Petermac in his role of moderator has suggested it should be in members personal layouts so this is where I have attempted to put it. Not being too familiar with the board protocols it may well be in the wrong place. If so can the appropriate moderator please move it.
Thank you.

I have been asked about a full size layout. What size, track plan, construction, name etc? So this is intended to start answering some of those questions and as an aid to firming up ideas that I have. My resources are limited and having just worked my way through the “Bears End” and got deeply into the “Newcastle Emlyn” threads I am gratified that some kind people think that my own efforts are worth recording. However as I said with the limited resources available this could be a long haul.
First up is a description of the differences between tramway and railway layouts and the differing problems tramway modellers face. I don’t need to go into those faced by railway modellers as the words “grandma, eggs and suck” spring to mind so I’ll outline only those specific to tramway.

Let’s start with the track
 It looks like tramway modellers get a better deal. Really tight curves so you can squeeze more into a given size of baseboard and you can use any old track and plaster over it to hide the defects and ballasting is eliminated.
Only....... if you are not doing current tramway you will need to either cover your road surface with cobbles by gluing printouts on to the street or by scribing each cobble. Cobbles are 4mm X 2mm at 00 scale and a double track width of road is roughly 110 mm between pavements. That is a LOT of cobbles if your layout has 5 linear metres of double track. I suppose that you’ll want to be able to have junctions or sidings so points are a necessity but they are going to be somewhere in the range of 150mm radius, be custom built and, if you are following actual practice, have only one moving tongue as a guide. Normal turnouts and slips are not too bad despite the sharp angle that the rails cross but at a T junction or Grand Junction things get..... interesting. Have a look at the drawing below. It’s a grand junction and gives you an idea of the size and scale of trackwork since it measures 40 X 40 centimetres and to build it I have to print it out on 4 sheets of A4. There are 16 points and if I think about wiring it in two rail (as opposed to overhead and twin rail return), my head hurts.



So now you know why I’m going to use twin earth return & overhead. The last point is that once I have decided where the track is going to go I am stuck with it as it will be covered in with some form of road surface. A major point regarding trackwork is that it can not be thought about on its own. I need to allow for the overhead and how to support it. Of course just to make things difficult tram track is U shaped and almost impossible to obtain so a method of representing this needs to be decided on.
So on to the overhead.
Now some people will be modelling contemporary railways and you can get working overhead at a price. However tramway overhead is a single catenary wire with a very gentle curve and no supporting wire above it. It is also hung from a bewildering selection of supporting poles. My own poles are built from 4 diameters of brass tube which are a sliding fit inside each other with 3 tubes for the standard and the fourth for the span arm the overhead is attached to. Finding pictures of the span poles is very difficult as they were rarely the subject of a picture as the tram was the focus and where they are shown they tend to blend in with the background.

 See what I mean and I was attempting to show the pole.



And for those who have read some of my previous posts and are wondering,  this is a 2 foot section of track I had in my father in laws bookcase with a Blackpool standard as a working diorama. It originally had a high street scene but it had got badly damaged and when I found Scalescenes site there was a free set of low relief industrial units which I used as my introduction to card building building.
These days I tend to think of it as Provenmill industrial estate. You can see the three sections of tube and the span pole.



Glasgow tended to make use of wall rosettes to fix span wires to but as the nature of tramway modelling tends to have only one side of the street, [well you WANT to see the trams don’t you?], I will need to work out how to fix span wires to cardboard buildings on one side with the span poles on the other. I think that this will involve tenements with plywood or real tree backings.
So on with the motley. Having had various ideas and plans I now think I have a track plan but until I get the baseboard in there are a few, let’s bung this on the board and see if it works areas.

As I said before I have space and finance issues, e.g.  Not a lot of either, so my baseboard will have to be made from whatever I can find, or as the Americans put it “Dumpster Diving. Luckily it will be cantilevered out on brackets fixed to a wall so as long as I get the “street” level can get away with It.
The baseboard(s) will be going here :-

Right (North) side ,


Left (South) side,


And might end up looking like this,
 
I’ll leave it there for now except to say that the eventual layout will be “Glebe Street” and the Sunday Post can accept it as a tribute.
 
Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 06:42 pm
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The Bankie
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Hi again.
Due to the inappropriate placing of the first post this looks like the same day but it's actually several days later.
As you can see slum clearance has started.



Now I need to wait until tomorrow when SWMBO is visiting her sister so that I can make some noise and dust and get the first shelf up.The masonry is part of an aborted layout for the front of a caravan we no longer have and it will actually simply move into the corner as the first part of the station/viaduct/dock part of the backscene.

Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 08:00 pm
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emmess
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I am looking forward to watching this one. That grand junction looks wonderful - I wouldn't like the challenge.



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 Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2014 08:10 pm
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Petermac
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Onward and upward Jim. :thumbs

Make sure you get all that dust cleared up before SWMBO gets back from her sister's or removing the shelf may be as far as you get with Glebe Street ..................:cheers



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 Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2014 08:27 am
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The Bankie
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Hi emmness

You said  That grand junction looks wonderful - I wouldn't like the challenge.
I agree, but I can't even take the challenge as at 40 X 40 mm it takes up about a quarter of the available space. Still there is a good chance of a full T junction at the station end.

Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2014 08:41 am
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The Bankie
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Hi Peter

You said
Make sure you get all that dust cleared up before SWMBO gets back from her sister's or removing the shelf may be as far as you get with Glebe Street ..................:cheers
That is NOT a prediction that is a guarantee.
I'm already having problems relocating the shelf I took down. She spotted where I was about to put it and vetoed the position as it might interfere when she was loading up the airing cupboard. NO it was NOT going on the door!:roll:

It will be going in the original space but above her head height. :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted: She can not grumble as it will be conforming to her decree of not getting in the way and it will be in position by the time she returns.

Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2014 09:54 am
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mojo1
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Ah, the joys of planning regulations and the final decision by the committee of one. Looking forward to seeing how this one goes .

 



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 Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2014 10:08 am
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The Bankie
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Well that's beggared it!
With someone like you watching the thread the standard will have to go RIGHT up. :thud

Nice to hear from you Pat.:lol:

Jim



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 Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2014 06:25 pm
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The Bankie
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OK
Got away with the shelf repositioning and have removed the shelf on the West face (behind the monitor) and put a new bookshelf in, in, the back room to replace the removed one.
Had to go round to the next door neighbour to retrieve my drill. Regrettably he repaid the loan in whisky so unable to proceed with shelf fitting as it has to be level and shelves cantilevered out from a house wall are rarely level due to plastering "tolerances" so will resume tomorrow.:oops::oops::oops:

Jim



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 Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2014 09:39 pm
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Petermac
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:mutley:mutley:mutley:mutley

Did you talk your neighbour into having a branch line through the wall Jim ? :roll::roll:



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 Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2014 09:46 am
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"Had to go round to the next door neighbour to retrieve my drill."






When I first read that I thought you'd tunnelled right through the wall!   








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 Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2014 11:02 am
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The Bankie
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Pat
Have you been sneaking about round here?

When I first read that I thought you'd tunnelled right through the wall!
It's only a hole big enough to let me get an intranet cable through so that I could use his internet. Lasted three years until SWMBO had got used to the idea and we got a new phone package with it included:mutley:mutley:mutley
We have left it in place because we're on different providers and so far we've had to use it twice because one or other of the networks has fallen over. It can handle more data faster than WiFi.
Is this a case of life imitating sarcasm?:shock:

Jim



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 Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2014 07:00 pm
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The Bankie
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OK Funnies over
 Latest progress report.:
Due to the vagaries of plaster coated walls cantilevering a shelf out is NOT likely to produce a level top surface. So level it up.



Add the bracket for the other end, level that up, screw down the shelf and discover that the lump of ply which I am using as the actual base has a 1/4 inch bow over a 4 foot length. Oh well, it's meant to be a street in Glasgow so a bit of undulation is acceptable. Finally pop on some bits from a previous project to keep them safe and get a bit of an idea how it will look, take picture and post on board.



That shelf is going to have to go. However that will need to wait until I find a new home for all the carp displaced previously.

Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2014 08:09 pm
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Substantial looking brackets Jim. :roll:  Had you thought of using metal "L" shaped shelf brackets and screwing a timber bearer to those ?  Much easier on both the weight and the wall .....................................:hmm

I wonder - how long is that ply board ?  It looks to me as if it will need some longitudinal support otherwise it will gradually sag under it's own weight, never mind putting anything on it - your current "dip in the road" could end up more like "Rest and be Thankful"..........   My rule is a support every 2 ft. - 2" x 1" softwood would be enough. :cheers



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 Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2014 08:08 am
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Hi Peter
The ply is 4 feet long and it will get it's centre bracket. It's been sitting outside for 2 years as an offcut from another project but I couldn't resist popping the relevant bits on there. The priority was to get some shelving up as temporary storage space as the back room is rapidly running out of even floor space. Yes the brackets are a little over engineered but originally they were holding up a shelf on the back fence with a row of flowerpots on it. I did say that funds were limited and I was recycling anything to hand. I just hope I never drop any of the brackets on my foot.:shock:

Jim



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 Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2014 11:11 am
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Petermac
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The Bankie wrote: .........................................I just hope I never drop any of the brackets on my foot.:shock:

Jim

:mutley:mutley:mutley

I too tend to hang onto potential "building materials" Jim. ;-)

I have some offcuts of plasterboard leaning against a wall collecting "bend".  At this moment, I can't think of a suitable use for them but the minute I sling them, I'll find one ................

There were some posts ages ago about using it as stone walling in cuttings.  Apparently you peel off the paper on one side and scribe in the stone courses on the exposed plaster core.  I wonder .......................:hmm



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 Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2014 12:16 pm
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The Bankie
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OK Peter
Just to relieve your worries about the "undulating" shelf I fitted a longitudinal 2X1 piece under it and screwed down from the top since, although it is a wonderful material, ply aint too hot at holding screws.



The clutter on top is some of the stuff displaced to make room for the baseboard shelf and will disappear as soon as I get somewhere to put it.

This is like one of those sliding tile puzzles where you need to line up everything in the correct order before you get it to come together. Even my laser printer has had to go next door on its holidays (actually it's being repaired) to my next door neighbor who builds computers etc for a living. It also explains why he gets to borrow things like my tools.

regards
Jim



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 Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2014 03:14 pm
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Phew, thank heavens - now I can rest easy Jim. :cheers:cheers:cheers:mutley



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 Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2014 07:19 pm
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The Bankie
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Hi Guys
Short update about lack of progress. I'm currently building the Scalescenes canal bridge and locks. The bridge is complete and needs to be set out so I can integrate it and the locks into a transfer point on the docks so I can have rail,road and canal all supplying or forwarding goods from the docks. I can even get one of these



onto the tramway since this was Glasgow. I could get a small shunter on the tracks but rail locos will not run on twin rail and overhead.
With a little luck I'll be able to make a model of this



as it's absolutely authentic.

New Avatar as there was some confusion over the tram 488 one and it's safer not to mess with other folks work. More authentic as it's the arms of the burgh of Clydebank.

Oh well back to sniffing the aircraft dope I'm using for the water in the canal.:shock:

Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Thu Dec 4th, 2014 10:12 am
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mojo1
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Look forward to more layout Photos, Jim.



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