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3D printing scalescenes - Scalescenes Building Kits. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2015 03:17 pm
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Petermac
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At 6 or 7 hours to print, that's considerably less than the card version takes to do Peter.

I note that Shapeways has come in for a lot of stick recently over their new pricing policy - and apparently, a drop in orders from the likes of us.

Of course, it could be that our stuff was a PITA to them and they'd rather print other, more profitable stuff, but one can't help wondering if 3D printing is like so many other innovations - launch it on the cheap to get us hooked, then jack up the price ............:roll::roll:

To me, it's a great pity because my, admittedly very limited, experience of their products is good but their new prices make purchses more difficult to justify.

I'm also hitting the odd problem with my Scalescenes models now.  My stocks of 2mm card are dwindling rapidly and, as my original supplier will no longer deal direct, I'm finding it difficult to source new supplies at anything like the price I originally paid.  1mm doesn't seem to pose a problem.

The second thing I've noticed, and this has nothing to do with Scalescenes as such, is that the inks on some of my earlier prints are showing signs of fading. :???:   It was just done with an inkjet printer onto "normal" 80g or 90g printer paper, sealed with Lidl W5 waterproofing spray.  First observations are that the fading is more evident under LED lighting rather than flouro lighting.  Something to check in the future ............................:hmm



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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2015 03:48 pm
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Wizmacnz
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I think there has been a lot of improvement in inkjet printers and printer inks over recent years. I know the large inkjet printers we used for architectural drawings 10-15 years ago would fade so fast that we often had to print new drawings during construction because the builder could no longer read the notes on the drawings. 

We have an A3 photo printer at home that Canon says will print photo's that will stay "vibrant, colourful and fresh looking" for 300 years. ( I assume it has to be vibrant, colourful and fresh looking in the first place.) However all my scalescenes prints, brick papers etc have just been dumped through the office colour laser as its much cheaper. If they have faded I haven't noticed it yet.

I think your right about Shapeways not wanting the miniature / modelling market. Or at least not wanting things that use little material but take up lots of machine space. I've been slowly re-packaging my stuff to deal with the price changes, but the fully printed canopies don't really have a solution and will have to wait for a policy change at Shapeways, or a cheaper alternative supplier. It's much, much cheaper to pack together the canopy components than it is to buy the assembled fully printed item. The single print uses the same amount of "plastic" and is much less handling for them. I just don't get it.



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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2015 04:06 pm
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Petermac
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I'm sure you're right about the "bundled" component method of selling rather than the "easier for the modeller" ready made units Peter.  That's the way I'll go for future canopy supplies.  A little more work for me but on the other hand, probably a little more flexibility in that my next roof will be curved.  That's not easy with the fixed canopies but using the post/truss option, I'd only have to build the roof panels.  I suspect the valances could be persuaded to accept a curve .................:roll::roll::roll:

Regarding printers, mine are all cheap home printers - in many cases, replacing the printer was only slightly more expensive than a set of cartridges !!!

Upping the standard of the printer (and paper) would undoubtedly improve the quality and durability of the end product but doing so might not be cost effective for my modelling purposes.



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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2015 05:07 pm
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gastwo
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Sorry to hi-jack the thread Peter (wiz)

Peter Max - Does this site send to France?
Had my last lot of 2mm card for £3.99 plus p & p

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/jackdawexpress?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

Shaun.

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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2015 05:37 pm
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Petermac
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They do indeed Shaun - a good find. :thumbs:thumbs

The only problem is that there's a £6 delivery charge to France ...................:cry::cry:   I've hit this problem before with bulky items.  Whewn I bought my last lot of card, I paid around £35 for 20 sheets of 2mm and 30 sheets of 1mm - all A2 sized ...............  They were delivered free to a UK address and I collected it when I was over.  The sensible solution would be to find a supplier out here - they must use card in France .....................:lol::lol::lol:



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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2015 06:31 pm
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Hmm, I have built one or two SS models, and deliberately built both sets of terraced flint cottages with what I had at hand. It is not necessary to use 2mm card and 1mm card despite JW's advice [I mean no disrespect or censure] I had some 1.43mm card and some 1mm scraps and all turned out well.

I did try to add the odd mm to floor widths [not lengths] and in the end had to shave off most of the extra I allowed.

This said you MUST [not shouting]be sure that for laminated WRAPPED items like pillars and chimney stacks be sure that your total thickness of the item makes a sensible 'wrap' with the texture sheet, i.e. for a chimney stack, the flashing ends up at the middle of each side elevation, by adding a bit extra, by adding a layer of card, or as I prefer in J Ahern fashion, to build my chimneys in 7-8mm multiples [approx]of balsa wood.

Remember, in an SS model, the 'area' of prints [walls, floors, roofs..] is not affected by thickness, only stacks and laminations occasionally need consideration.

I have also found that 2mm is hard work to cut in grey pasteboard so any reduction in thickness is welcome.

Historical Note......

[J Ahern's models were designed to be made of thin [cornoflako packeto/pot card]card, they were drawn 'on the run', that is, the walls followed around in one strip of- end wall, side wall, end wall and final side wall- and folded to make a 4 sided structure and reinforced with strip wood and scrap card bracers.]

Nil desperandum



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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2015 09:22 pm
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sparky
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Peter.  I buy grey card from "Papercutz"   2mm And 1mm,   not sure what the cost inc postage would be for yourself though.



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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2015 11:54 pm
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Ken
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It's the first time I've read anything about 3D Printers and the results are impressive but is it really modelling per se?   To me the fun has been taken out of it and what you are left with is something akin to a plastic model kit with no individuality.

Personally I love making my N scale buildings in card and whilst they may not be as perfect as these "kits" they do have integrity and endevour which is surely one of the true aims of modelmaking?    Anyway, just a thought.

Ken



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 Posted: Mon Jan 5th, 2015 01:12 am
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Wizmacnz
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Hi Ken
I'm sure some people may want integrity and endeavor, others just want a building that they can plonk onto their layout. Much as some people want to make their own locomotives in brass and others are happy to use the latest Hornby or Bachmann RTR offering. 

I'm sure there is room for all sorts in this hobby of ours. To me the advantage of 3D print is that it does permit individuality without tooling costs. It can print models that I design that I would never be able to build in any other way with my level of modelling skills.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 5th, 2015 04:04 am
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jimmy styles
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I have recently got into 3d printing and it is amazing what can be achieved. However it's a shame that my home printer will not do the amazing quality of shapeways but for buildings etc it's perfect!!

Keep designing Peter as I love printing the new bits

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 Posted: Mon Jan 5th, 2015 02:06 pm
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I like where this is going peter!



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 Posted: Tue Jan 6th, 2015 02:46 pm
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Wizmacnz
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Just a quick post to say that I haven't got distracted on to something else again.

The printing progress is somewhat slow. One of the frustrations with home 3D printing is that it takes a long while to print, so sometimes it takes a long while to see that it isn't printing the way you expected it to. To print properly the printed object needs to stay firmly attached to the bed it's being printed on. 

Some of the larger flat wall panels have been lifting at the edges, resulting in a banana shaped panel. Unfortunately you can only really identify this about 30 minutes into the print, you let it run for another 30 minutes (it's a 2 hour print) thinking perhaps it wont be too bad. Realise it is pretty bad, but hey it's half way through now, might as well let it finish and hope it's salvageable.  At the end of the print run, you take it out of the machine and as you feared it's curved and too tough to straighten.

The problem is the tape that you cover the build plate with is being pulled away from the plate as the bottom layers of plastic cool and shrink. Fixing the problem probably means buying some different tape. I do have a few other ideas and have been trying  something different on each print run. I'm sure I'll hit on a solution eventually.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 19th, 2015 02:47 pm
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Wizmacnz
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A bit of an update ....

Well I have finally printed all the panels I need to build the kit.




It took far longer than my original estimate. There is probably about 20 hours of printing without counting the time wasted in having to reprint panels that had warped. Ok so I printed panels that could easily have been cut from card, but I thought I would stick to plastic, just to show an all printed scalescenes kit was possible.

While the home printer could handle printing window frames. Acceptable paneled doors were beyond it. I carefully cut out the front door with a razor saw so it could be replaced by one of my Shapeways printed doors. Having seen the problem, I left the rear doors out, just leaving the opening to take shapeways doors. (the left door is as printed on the home printer.)




Now to put it all together.
I decide to leave the front and rear external walls to last, just gluing the end gables, floors and internal walls. Gluing consisted of a quick brush of acetone that melts the plastic, and forms a welded joint. The acetone dries very fast so you have to be quick.




The front panels in the picture below are just pushed into place. I haven't yet decided if I will stick on the scalescenes paper before gluing into place  or if I should glue it all together and then apply the paper. I know the Scalescenes kit wraps the paper around the walls before assembly. But I might just leave a cut edge on the face, to be hidden by strategically positioned down pipes.







Next installment will have the Scalescenes prints applied.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 19th, 2015 05:41 pm
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That looks good Peter.
As you've discussed, maybe not a commercial proposition but for the home modeller if they wanted say 8 or a dozen such houses, once you had the CAD model set up and the printing issues sorted it would save a lot of cutting by hand.
Some of the newer home 3D printers might be able to handle the panel door.
looking forward to the next bit.

Marty



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