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Roof top glazing on station and goods shed roofs - Scratchbuilding. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Sun Aug 25th, 2013 11:03 am
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Gary
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G'day all,

I'm at the stage where I am sheeting and glazing the canopy on my Kelly Bray station building/overall roof. I would like to know whether the glazing sat under the edges of the roofing material (in this case corrugated iron) or did the glazing sit proud of the roofing material within its own frame ??

Cheers, Gary.



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 Posted: Sun Aug 25th, 2013 11:38 am
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bike2steam
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This is what I use;-

http://www.expotools.com/acatalog/Glue--n--Glaze--50ml--46030.html

,or take yourself off to your nearest ( or internet site of) model aircraft shop, and ask for 'canopy glue'.

:)


edit-whoops misread, sorry having a senile moment, please ignore.:oops:



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 Posted: Sun Aug 25th, 2013 12:48 pm
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Chubber
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I think what you are asking, Gary, is 'Does the canopy and the roof drain into the same guttering system?'

[Correct me if I'm being presumptuous]

From my [limited] studies they each drain into a common lead gulley, nominally under the edge of both upper surfaces to look something like the piccy below....I couldn't find the definitive answer, I just made it look 'summat' like the few overhead shots I found in the net.





Certainly it looks neater to have the roof slightly overhanging. I did look to  buying some real archive drawings, but the price made me feel faint [Oh, had to type 'buying'....now feel all wobbly...]

Hope that helps,

Doug



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 Posted: Sun Aug 25th, 2013 02:18 pm
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Gary
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Thanks to you both for a reply.

A picture speaks a thousand words. So what I am really after is an answer to this ;


Should the glazing panel sit above the actual roof line or does it sit below ??

Cheers, Gary.



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 Posted: Sun Aug 25th, 2013 02:28 pm
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allan downes
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Gary wrote: Thanks to you both for a reply.

A picture speaks a thousand words. So what I am really after is an answer to this ;


Should the glazing panel sit above the actual roof line or does it sit below ??

Cheers, Gary.


Above, as in your sketch Gary, would be the correct way as this would allow the water to run off the glazing and on down the tiles/ corrugated sheeting etc as would a Velux loft light on a house roof.

Allan.

 

 

 

 

 

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 Posted: Sun Aug 25th, 2013 02:34 pm
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Gary
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Thanks Allan. Above as I had thought, but then again, a few card kits do have the glazing modelled below the roofing material. Hence my question. Now, have a guess what I'm upto tomorrow...? (Oh, hang-on, it is Monday down under already !)

Cheers, Gary.



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 Posted: Sun Aug 25th, 2013 03:46 pm
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Chubber
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Gary wrote: Thanks Allan. Above as I had thought, but then again, a few card kits do have the glazing modelled below the roofing material. Hence my question. Now, have a guess what I'm upto tomorrow...? (Oh, hang-on, it is Monday down under already !)

Cheers, Gary.


That's because it's the easiest way to model it, Gary. Remember the rain runs down the glass on all sides and must either

1.  be channelled to the bottom by an upstanding frame and then over the edge of glass supported by a bare-face tenoned rail, or,

2.  the 'light' set in between the rafters and a gulley fitted to let the water run off all round into a channel then downwards over a flashing apron and away down the roof.

You could make your model much more prototypical by cutting a neat 1.5mm wide thin card frame to fit around the top and sides, gluing that to clear acrylic and then gluing that above your opening. Add some strips of self adhesive label coloured appropriately within the frame to represent glazing bars. A 1 - 1.5mm strip of flashing material along the bottom of the opening, under the glazing would be a good idea, too.



Good luck,

Doug



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 Posted: Sun Aug 25th, 2013 09:22 pm
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allan downes
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Looks like problem solved Garry, Doug's diagram explains it perfectly, but I have to say that I would have made the frame out of styrene section.

Cheers.

Allan.

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 Posted: Sun Aug 25th, 2013 10:21 pm
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Gary
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Thanks Doug and Allan.

This is what I have already, but the actual plans I purchased don't show much detail for fitting fixtures such as the glazing/skylights. I followed the plan in the construction to 99% correct.




As can be seen, the glazing bars are already fixed in position with the rest of the roof frame/truss. The frame was completed and painted so that I could build the skylights on top of the frames. More of the construction can be found here : http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=10835&forum_id=21&page=3

With both of your desriptions and explainations, I will frame the edges of the glazing with 0.75 x 1.0mm styrene and glue to top of the frame with the iron butting up against the frame. Note that the corrugated iron is not fixed and only shown for descriptive purposes.

Cheers, Gary.



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 Posted: Sun Aug 25th, 2013 10:25 pm
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Well for what's its worth Gary,

(And from experience I might add ) one of the projects that I worked on as a QS approx 1 and a half years ago was the refurbishment of Broughtyferry Ferry. Railway Station in Dundee.

It took the old station building and the adjoining station masters house and refurbished it and low and behold, there was an extensive new build canopy that was part of it. I can tell you for sure that albeit a modern form of construction and that the canopy beneath was enclosed to house two retail units the glazing was built in from above. The detail was certainly different from corrugated sheeting, this was a bespoke flat roof. I say flat, it ran at a 13 degree angle to give it a run off but none the less the roof itself was built first with the glazing going in next along with the appropriate flashings etc.

I would imagine that no matter the age of the build, the glazing would goin on top to dispense rain water etc onto the roof to drain properly.

I've no doubt there will be other versions but ill bet my life on it that they won't be either common nor reliable and they'll be very expensive to build. Probably proprietary designs.

I may have electronic copies of the drawings still ( not the originals as that would be a breach of my contract of course,but something very similar ) this may assist if someone wants to model something more modern.

I might add that the original signal box was demolished without permission. It turned out to be of listed status even though it was not in use any longer. The local council " forced " a mock replacement to be built in its place. It ended up a steel framed build which was clad with the original type of timber cladding ( can't remember what it was but can find out ) and all the original windows which survived had to be refurbished along with the old steel point lever frames etc. it cost a fortune.


Model on, I think your on the right track, forgive the pun.

Cheers.

Toto

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 Posted: Sun Aug 25th, 2013 11:07 pm
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Gary
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Thanks for the info Toto. Much appreciated.

Cheers, Gary.



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 Posted: Mon Aug 26th, 2013 02:04 am
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Sol
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:Red Card Now thanks Gary for bringing this to our attention  - it means that perhaps I need to modify my Metcalfe & Scalescenes goods sheds - as if I don't have enough to do !!!!
But no, some good info there from the Doug & Allan Modelling Society.



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 Posted: Mon Aug 26th, 2013 03:34 am
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Gary
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Sol wrote: :Red Card Now thanks Gary for bringing this to our attention  - it means that perhaps I need to modify my Metcalfe & Scalescenes goods sheds - as if I don't have enough to do !!!!
But no, some good info there from the Doug & Allan Modelling Society.


                                                                   :mutley:mutley:mutley

Shouldn't the Doug & Allan Modelling Society be called DAM (That's Good) Society...?? ;-);-)

Cheers, Gary.



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 Posted: Mon Aug 26th, 2013 04:00 am
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Marty
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I'll second that.
Lots of useful information.
cheersMarty



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 Posted: Mon Aug 26th, 2013 06:41 am
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Chubber
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Blush time again....

Acrylic glazing is a sod to hlue to card but I have discovered that the best glue to use is Roket card glue.

As it stays a little rubbery and doesn't simply let go og the glazing. Neither does it let go of your finger, to ehich it adheres, making the end of your digit an effective post-it note

Doug



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 Posted: Mon Aug 26th, 2013 08:01 am
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Gary
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Before I even start on the glazing, I tested my glue (Revell Professional) on clear plastic and styrene, just to see if there was going to be any problem. None so far and no frosting. I have to paint some scrap styrene strip and test again with the glue, just to make sure the glue does not weaken the paint and make a mess of everything. Hopefully trial before error will make it a lot easier in the long run.

Cheers, Gary.



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 Posted: Mon Aug 26th, 2013 09:49 am
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allan downes
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Hi again Garry, your model is looking really good.

Anyway, these are the only shots of roof skylights I can find and I'm sorry but they're not very good ones at that.

What I normaly do is to run a 2/3mil 'locating' strip all around the underside of the aperture then build the skylight as a complete and indepandant unit and then glue it to the locating strip.

Allan.




 

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 Posted: Mon Aug 26th, 2013 12:23 pm
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Gary
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Hi Allan,

Thanks for the pics and wisdom ! Those pics show the skylights off quite clearly. :thumbs I will be making small frames on a jig first, then attach the clear styrene sheet to them.

Well, I tested my piece of acylic sheet & styrene and you can guess what happened...?? Doug knows the answer ! There was a bond for a certain amount of time, but once handled a little more than often would, 'snap', it came apart. I read on the 'other' forum, a chap using the plastic sheeting that comes between Tesco cheese slices and smoked salmon !! Unfortunately, no Tesco in Australia... (maybe that's a good thing ;-);-))

Tomorrow I'll pass by the local hobby shop and pick up a pack of Evergreen Styrene Clear Sheet (I'm their only customer buying it !). I read on the Evergreen website that their clear sheet will bond to their styrene strip. Fantastic ! 

In hindsight, I should of checked the Evergreen site first...:oops:

Cheers, Gary.



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 Posted: Mon Aug 26th, 2013 01:51 pm
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allan downes
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Right Garry, let's see if I can sort you out with this skylight business !!

Now from what I 've seen of your modelling, you're no beginner so this should be a walkover.

First however, when using solvent glues, always make sure that the plastic that you are using will respond to solvents - not all plastics do, but styrene will.

Now I do this when cutting out any kind of canopy lighting and that is to cut the whole thing out as a sub frame from say 10/15 thou styrenes - that's the whole thing, surround and glazing bars - then glue the styrene section onto this which not only will it give you bomb proof results that cannot possibly fall apart when you handle it, but it will be perfectly square.

The unit can now be carefully and cleanly glued down over the clear styrene glazing strip which should be no less than 1mil thick and you will find that Evergreen clear glazing sheet is just that - 1mil thick.

Also that's how the canopies below were made - subframe first then glue the glazing bars and main frame surrounds down to the frame after.

Cheers.

Allan.


 

 

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 Posted: Tue Aug 27th, 2013 06:58 am
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Gary
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Hi Allan,

I truly appreciate the help and guidance from a pro ! :thumbs ...and thanks for the kind words :oops: (gosh !). 

I managed to pick up a packet of Evergreen clear styrene today. I went for the .38mm (.015") thickness. I looks as if Evergreen only do 3 thickness's now, .005 / .13mm, .010 / .25mm and .015 / .38mm. Hopefully tonight I can have a little time to get on with the job. As for solvents, I managed to find a supplier who manufactures a solvent that will glue acyllic to styrene. It's a pity they are based in the USA, as the glue (3oz tin) wasn't all that expensive, well, compared to their postage anyway..!

Once again, thanks for the advice.

For anyone looking for Evergreen styrene, here is a link : http://www.evergreenscalemodels.com/index.htm

Cheers, Gary.



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