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Another strange fault - On Members Workbenches. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Thu Aug 22nd, 2013 08:10 pm
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Dorsetmike
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I have a scratch built 0-4-2 with a UM tender drive, drive is fine on plain track and most points but on two (naturally sod's law chooses ones in the station throat) it shorts in one direction but not the other.

I've narrowed it down a bit, if I remove the pony truck completely it works fine, one of the usual pony truck wheels picks up current, so changed the pony truck wheels for both insulated, still shorts, use smaller wheels,- shorts. do a temporary insulate the pony truck all round with sticky paper, shorts, change the driving wheels still shorts, chenge the back to back in stages from 7.6 down to 7.2 no different.

Through all the changes it runs fine on plain track and other points and in the other direction over the points where the problem occurs. Other locos have no problem with them.

As this loco normally should ideally do duty as the station pilot this problem is a PITA.

Any constructive suggestions welcome.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 22nd, 2013 11:27 pm
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Marty
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How about a little sketch of the point arrangement and where the locos stopping, or even a photo Mike? That might help others to provide suggestions.

Electrofrog? Are your points wired to switch the frog polarity?

Cheers

Marty



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 Posted: Fri Aug 23rd, 2013 09:43 am
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Dorsetmike
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Both Peco electrofrog code 55  long  one LH one RH, laid toe to toe,  no external frog switching I rely on the point blades. I'll try and get some pics later on.




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 Posted: Fri Aug 23rd, 2013 10:05 am
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Petermac
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Dorsetmike wrote: Both Peco electrofrog code 55  long  one LH one RH, laid toe to toe,  no external frog switching I rely on the point blades. I'll try and get some pics later on.



:shock::shock::shock::shock:

Now I'm not the guy to ask about anything electrical Mike, but I'm pretty sure you do need frog switching on electrofrog points ........:roll::roll:

In some cases, such as a simple change of route, you may get away with it but in a station throat, the chances of the "+" meeting the "-" are extremely high.  Insulfrogs, no problem but electros .....hmmm  :hmm



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 Posted: Fri Aug 23rd, 2013 11:00 am
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toto
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Hi mike,

Are any other loco's running over these points without a problem ?

I'm no expert but I think you can get away using electrofrogs " in modified " if you are running into a dead end but if not then its polarity switching etc.

Again, I'm no expert and if incorrect, apologise for potentially sending down the wrong track. ( forgive the pun ).

Cheers toto

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 Posted: Fri Aug 23rd, 2013 02:49 pm
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Dorsetmike
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Peter, no problems with electrofrogs as they are, I've even got them on the triangle. When/if I find conflicts then I add some switching, some switching is needed anyway with two contollers, I can select either controller for any section of track using on-off-on 2 pole switches.

Toto, so far only this 0-4-2 is having problems, I have run Farish, Union Mills, Minitrix, Fleischmann and Peco chassised locos with no problems through these 2 points..

There is no ballast causing problems, I've tried changing back to back, I've even changed the wheels for ones of a different make. If I pick the loco up and turn it round it runs over the points perfectly, with chimney end leading out of the station it shorts going out or in, tender  leading from station no problem out or in.




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 Posted: Fri Aug 23rd, 2013 03:01 pm
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Petermac
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You could try a useful trick I've used on insulfrogs Mike.

Just paint a few mm's of nail varnish on the frog point to insulate the "V" where the two rails meet  in case it's a tyre just touching the wrong polarity rail.



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 Posted: Fri Aug 23rd, 2013 05:51 pm
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paul_l
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Hi Mike

Is the body made of plastic or metal, if metal you may be shorting on the body.
You could also try a piece of paper between the wheel backs and the chassis, just to see.
Does the loco give the same problem if its pointing the other way.

Paul



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 Posted: Fri Aug 23rd, 2013 05:59 pm
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Dorsetmike
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Body is brass, I do have the non pick up side insulated from any chance of the wheels shorting to body.

As for pointing other way see above post at 15.49.




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 Posted: Fri Aug 23rd, 2013 07:02 pm
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paul_l
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Hi Mike

sorry missed the part about turning the loco.
can you run it without the body on - you will be able to see the wheels if they touch, if its always the same spot, you could try videoing it, may give a few hints.

Paul



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 Posted: Fri Aug 23rd, 2013 10:20 pm
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Dorsetmike
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Not possible to detach chassis from body, it is scratch built from brass but with a piece of plastic chassis glued in, salvaged from a scrapped loco, can't remember what loco though. The wheels are slightly under scale, should scale 6', but just about 5'9" ex Rivarossi Nord Pacific. I've tried wheels, same size  from a Farish loco as well.

Coming from the "heel" end on the straight line it shorts as soon as the front driver hits the  bit of rail joined to the blade; my next "test" will be when the loco stops to push a thin piece of plastic under each wheel in turn to see which is actually shorting.

This is the problem loco




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