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Wayne Williams
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Here is a picture of the Silo. It's about 14.5 ft. in dia. by 45 feet tall. The attached building is now the summer bedroom for the oldest grandson while he's home from college. We even put him in a bathroom!

It's going to be my next project, just have to decide how to proceed. :? :? :?

Wayne






                             

Perry
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I sat for a moment taking in the details of the silo and found that a construction plan has already started to form in my head. :shock:

I won't spoil things by indicating how I would tackle it though. As I have said before there is no 'right way' or 'wrong way' to do it, so I'm intrigued to see how you tackle it. I'm happy to help if asked, but I'm not going to interfere. :wink:

Perry

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Are my eyes decieving me or is the camera angle to blame but is the silo leaning to the right. If so that make it interesting to do. I have a idea on what the silo would be made of for me but wont say, its a cheat anyhow :D .
Phill

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I think the apparent 'lean' is due to the camera angle and slight distortion of the image.

There is no such thing as a cheat, Phill. :wink:

If something can be pressed into service as part of model then why not? :D Don't forget the advice; 'Never throw anything away'! My Water Softening Plant uses a section of cardboard tube as a core, even though it's covered with plastikard. (Hint, hint!)

Perry

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Well ok i say this once then, i have a large round shampoo bottle nice and well its ready for my chimney build, built how do i get plaster to stick well i let you know when i do :D :D
Phill

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how about a pringles tube, looks about the right size. then a smarties tube for the smaller piece.

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I seem to recall you said it was about 16ft diameter Wayne ?

That's about 2.5 inches in "00" - or ? in "H0".

Do you have any toilet paper rolls left over from your outhouse project ? I think they're probably around 2.5 inches - plastikard discs as "formers" then the plating in thin card/thick paper ?

Looks like a mighty big cropstore (silo) but it'll be both fun and another challenge to build.

Petermac

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phill wrote:Are my eyes decieving me or is the camera angle to blame but is the silo leaning to the right. Perhaps your promotion is affecting your judgement, Phill :!: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

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Blinded by the shiny star he's been given, that's what has happened. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wayne Williams
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Oh come on guys! Don't hold back on me now! Not when I need you! Spill the beans, Please?

Actual scale size is 1.96 inches in Diameter by 6.20 inches high.

Thoughts:

1. Thin wall PVC tubing
2. Plain styrene sheet around .020 thick. Formed around a mandrel with angle bonded at the edges, to hold the edges together and to attach the rings to. The angles would be hidden inside the climbing tower, so it wouldn't be seen.

Still trying to come up with a way to make the surface look like the prototype.


I'll take all the help I can get!
Wayne

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I would go for Option 2, Wayne. I would use a 'core' made from whatever I could lay my hands on that was the right size. Then I would use some .010" plain plastikard to wrap around it, but before doing this and whilst it was still a flat sheet, I would scribe in the vertical joints and then the alternating horizontal ones.

Perry

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Perry, I agree!

Now that, that is said, I tried bending .012 styrene sheet and it seemed to be too flexible to hold the shape. Of course I am only trying to bend it with my hands, so maybe it would bend OK over a mandrel.

You said "Scribe" the joints in place. I was thinking the same thing, but had a concern about the thickness being too thin for scribing. What tool would you use to scribe in the joints? Should I just try and scratch the surface or actually cut it? Please keep in mind that I "May" also scribe the inside as well, since this will have a removable top. The reason for the removable top is, the kids have poured a concrete floor in the bottom of the silo and have installed a hammock. They actually sleep there many nights during the summer months. Kids, go figure!

I am working on a joint detail sketch for joining the circle together. I will be posting it very soon.

Wayne

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These days you can get slim aerosol deodorant cans that might be helpful. My dad has used about five for his cement works. Maybe you could encase one in DAS clay and scribe the surface.

Mike

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Just a few questions. What's the tower actually made of? Is there an inner skin with what we are looking at an outside cladding? What's the shape and purpose of the structure attached at the rear, and is it of the same construction?

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Wayne Williams wrote:Perry, I agree!

Now that, that is said, I tried bending .012 styrene sheet and it seemed to be too flexible to hold the shape. Of course I am only trying to bend it with my hands, so maybe it would bend OK over a mandrel.

You said "Scribe" the joints in place. I was thinking the same thing, but had a concern about the thickness being too thin for scribing. What tool would you use to scribe in the joints? Should I just try and scratch the surface or actually cut it? Please keep in mind that I "May" also scribe the inside as well, since this will have a removable top. The reason for the removable top is, the kids have poured a concrete floor in the bottom of the silo and have installed a hammock. They actually sleep there many nights during the summer months. Kids, go figure!

I am working on a joint detail sketch for joining the circle together. I will be posting it very soon.

Wayne


You are quite correct, it won't hold it's shape by itself. It will ideally need a former of some sort that you can leave in place to support it, although you could dispense with this if it will spoil the look of the finished model.

If you're using material as thin as .010" for the wrap-around I strongly advise that you don't scribe it on both sides. It's too thin and may well fall apart. A way around this might be to laminate an 'inner' and an 'outer' surface together with the respective detail scribed on each layer.

To scribe the joints you will need a metal 'scriber' (surprise, surprise!) of whatever shape you choose. Hardware stores sell very cheap miniature screwdrivers that are naff all use for driving screws, but make wonderful scribers. The reason for this is that they have nice little plastic handles and fairly soft steel shafts. If you have access to a small grinding wheel it will only take a few seconds to grind the end to whatever shape you want. Otherwise you will need to spend a few minutes with a file to get the required profile. You can choose a 'V' shape, a 'U' shape, or any shape that takes your fancy (within reason). Keep it sharp by giving it a few touches of a file every so often and go slowly. Take several passes with the scraper to reach the required depth, rather than trying to gouge it out in one go. Use a steel ruler to guide the scraper.

Do a trial run or two on some scrap styrene of the chosen thickness before you attack the model itself. It may save material, money and your temper. :wink:

Perry

Last edited on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 07:10 am by

Wayne Williams
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OK, first Bob:
The silo is made from concrete block, each block is about 10" wide by 30" high. The concrete block thickness is about 4" and this is the only structure for the silo. That means that the inside looks the same as the outside.

The attached structure is completely different. It is a wood built structure with wood siding and a sheet metal roof, the structure sits on top of two coarse of concrete blocks. It's purpose originally, I don't really know, probably just a storage shed. Now it's been converted to my grandson's summer cottage, which is how I intend to model it.


Perry,
Thanks, I have a pointed scribe that I will try, but from your description I will probably have to look for a different tool to do the job. I will take your advice about not scribing the styrene on both sides. That makes good sense to me. It will actually help solve one other problem I have been having too. By adding an interior skin, I can cut out the access holes in that skin, that are behind the climbing tower, much more realistic that way. There are wooden (removable) access panels every two feet going up the silo. I will now be able to laminate a wood decal on the inside of the outer skin that will show through the cutouts of the inner skin, thus looking like those panels. :D

I was intending to post a few cross sections of the styrene silo joint, but now with an inside skin I must rethink them. This is not a bad thing, because I like the direction this is heading.

One question: I intend to shape the outer skin first and then release the inside skin, inside the outer and let it snap in place. Do you think I need to do a lot of surface bonding between the two skins? Or can I just let the solvent seep in from the top and bottom edges?

Wayne

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Dwayne, see the attached link re the use of PVC pipe for a silo (this material also can be scribed):

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,1497152

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I didn't mean the little house type building Wayne. It's what appears to be a back to back silo or maybe something slightly smaller diameter, same height, same construction. My eyes can't be that bad surely? :lol:

Wayne Williams
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Sorry Bob, I completely misunderstood your question. What you are looking at in the picture is an access "tunnel". You can enter it from the ground (inside the building) and climb up on vertical steps, every two feet or so going up there is a wooden access door that can be removed so you can see inside the silo. Not sure what they are used for other than inspection of the silo's contents. Anyway, lets call the structure the access tower, and it's made from exactly the same concrete blocks as the silo has, only thinner in thickness, about 2" thick I believe. Upon inspection of the photograph, I now see that it has those same metal bars going around it too. :twisted: :twisted: Now I've got to come up with a way to attach them also. I need to get better with my "To Do List".:oops: :oops: :oops:

Hope that answered your question Bob.

Wayne

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Thanks Wayne, I know what I am looking at now. Never having come into contact with such a thing could you tell me how they get the fodder in there as it's not obvious from the picture, how it comes out as well and in what form?

Wayne Williams
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Bob, they used a conveyor to transport the material to the top. When they wanted to remove it, they used a pitch fork from the bottom access door of the access tower and shoveled it out. Hard work to say the least.

Wayne

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As you say Wayne, hard work. Not my cup of tea at all. :roll: :wink:

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Wayne Williams wrote:............One question: I intend to shape the outer skin first and then release the inside skin, inside the outer and let it snap in place. Do you think I need to do a lot of surface bonding between the two skins? Or can I just let the solvent seep in from the top and bottom edges?

Wayne


Just a spot or two of solvent around the top and bottom edges should stop the skins moving. Capilliary action will draw enough solvent into the joint to do the job. I can see no advantage in bonding the surfaces thoroughly.

Perry

Wayne Williams
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Thanks Perry, that will really help in the assembling of the silo. It will aid in the forming of the styrene sheet into a tube too.

I am just about ready to begin making the drawings for the project. I think I have all the details straight in my head on how I want to proceed. I intend to build a dome on the top of the silo also. This should be fun out of plasticard.

I am headed down to see my granddaughter (3 years old), about an hour south of here, this afternoon. It just so happens that there is a nice train store 2 miles from her house. So, well, why not? Since I already have a written list of the missing components for the silo, might as well take advantage of the trip. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wayne

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How about a section cut from a table tennis ball or something similar for the dome, Wayne? It would save a lot of hard work. :?

Perry

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I haven't got a ball to measure but I would think that can't be too far off the correct diameter.

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Wayne - re the concrete panels the silo is made out of, why not, after you've made the initial "tube", cut out the panels - scale size - from very thin styrene and simply glue those to the main tube.

For the dome - if you can find (or make) a (hemi) sphere of the required diameter then take a sheet of styrene, soften it well in hot water, you can simply "press" it onto your "master sphere" until it distorts into the shape of the dome. When it cools, it will retain the impressed shape. Cut off the surplus and hey presto - your dome. It used to work well for making the dome-shaped range finder/radar covers for warships in my model boating days - don't see why it won't work on a larger scale.

Petermac

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Wow! Now there's some neat ideas!

First the table tennis ball, I checked, too small! Need a 2" ball.

Petermac Wrote:
re the concrete panels the silo is made out of, why not, after you've made the initial "tube", cut out the panels - scale size - from very thin styrene and simply glue those to the main tube.

Give yourself a smart pat on the back Petermac, that's exactly what I have decided to do. I just got back from the Train Store where I found some .005 Thick Styrene Sheet. This stuff is like, thinner than paper! I intend to adhere it to the outside and inside of the "Tube". I will be posting pictures as I progress. The reason I decided to change direction from scribing to glueing is: I had my grandson take a close up picture of the blocks of the silo, and behold! There is no grout! The blocks are edge to edge, a butt joint! Watch for the picture, coming soon!

As for the Dome and shaping it in Hot Water, interesting concept. If I only had a "Master Sphere" :evil: I won't entirely give up on this. Finding that 2" diameter ball will be the key. I have purchased some styrene strips to make a dome, but as you say, it will be a lot of hard work doing it that way. The dome will be the last item on the build list, so I still have plenty of time yet to look for that magic ball.

I have started the drawing and found out that the attached building is not on the centerline of the silo. :evil: :evil: :evil: Why would anyone build it that way? :roll: :roll: :roll: It is 5 degrees off center line and two feet offset on the diameter of the Silo. I realize it's hard to visualize here, so once I get the drawing done I will try and take a picture of it and get it posted.

Wayne

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Wayne I just measured the tennis balls I use to stop my cars in the garage and they are 2 3/4 ". This is O. D. These are regulation tennis balls.

DAD

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Wayne I know you will think of this but why not cut off the tennis ball at the 2" dia. mark. It would still look like a dome.

DAD

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I took a tennis ball and taped it off at the 2" mark and to me it looks flattened, not like a dome. A trip to Walmart yielded no results in the 2" dia. ball market. :evil: :evil: :evil:
Still looking though!

In the mean time, I am making good progress with the drawing. :D :D :D
Might be able to post it tomorrow sometime late.

Wayne

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Pet stores often have a good selection of play balls for cats and dogs. As these animals vary so much in size, perhaps the balls do too! :wink:

Perry

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Here is the drawing of the silo,I have not added dimensions as yet, but will once I'm sure I have all the details laid out correctly.






I have fore-shortened the height of the silo in the right hand view, not enough room on the paper. :shock: The drawing was done in 2 times HO scale. By blowing it up 2 times size it helps show mistakes :evil: and when I measure the length of a line on the drawing to see how long it is, this will also cut down on tolerance build up.

After I had taken this picture, I was comparing it to the actual photo. I have drawn the silo blocks opposite of what they are on the silo. If you look at the drawing my blocks go up and to the right on the silo. On the actual silo they go up and to the left. :roll: :roll: :roll: Minor error but at least I noticed it now. :shock: (NO, I'm not going to change the drawing) :evil:






This photo shows a cross section of the climbing tower and how I intend to connect the silo edges together. :?

There is a rectangular tube and on the inside of it (inside the silo) is a flat rather thick looking piece, this will be the last part I put on. It is there to replicate the many access openings inside the climbing tower.

I'll start with describing the climbing tower. I am using a 7/16" styrene tube as a basic shape to build on. It will be cut in half vertically. (I'll be glad when that's done :roll: ) Then two flat pieces will be glued to the edges of the tube. Outside of this shape I will probably use some fairly substantial flat stock, maybe .030 or .040 even, will make that decision when I get there. Inside of the tube almost where the two flat legs are added are 2 angle pieces bonded to the tube. These will act as guides to align the tower to the silo.

Now I will jump to the silo itself, there are two angles that will be bonded to the edges of the (flat) silo sheet, just short of the actual edge. The gap between the two angles is 1/4". In that space, is the 1/8" x 1/4" rectangular tube, which will be bonded to the angles. Now against the outside of the rectangular tube is a flat strip of .030 styrene. If you will notice there is a gap between that flat strip and the two angles that are on the inside of the climbing tower (7/16" tube). This gap is my adjustment area to fit the climbing tower to the silo.

To install the climbing tower, it will slide down from the top of the silo. If it is a loose fit I can glue a thin strip of styrene in that gap area to tighten it up some.

Why have the climbing tower removable? Well, I have to put those metal rings around the outside of the silo, and for now all I can come up with that will look somewhat to scale is thread. I will be drilling holes in the rectangular tube at each thread location, to bring the thread out to the backside of the rectangular tube in order to tie them off, and or replace them if they become damaged in the future.

Well, that's the design. If anyone has any better ideas, I did the drawing in pencil not ink! :D :D :D

Wayne

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Very impressive drawings and planning, Wayne. I think they show well how forward planning can help one identify any potential problems before they occur.

Did you discount using wire for the rings? Thread would tend to show it's twisted structure, something you wouldn't get with wire.

Perry

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Perry, If I can find a thin enough (and cheap) wire I will still consider it. The way the project is designed, both would work fine. My wife does Brazilian Embroidery (Thank God for spell checker!) and she uses silk thread that is so thin, I can't see the twist! At least with thread I can control the color easier. (She has a LOT of thread!) (And you thought model trains were expensive!)

As far as the Dome is concerned, I think I am leaning myself towards trying to build it from flat styrene sheet. That would make a fabulous scratchbuild project all in itself! (Probably would have to show everyone a few failures too):evil:

Wayne

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Failures are not always a bad thing Wayne as usually we learn from them. That's how I console myself anyway when things go drastically wrong. :wink:

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Wayne Williams wrote:Perry, If I can find a thin enough (and cheap) wire I will still consider it. The way the project is designed, both would work fine. My wife does Brazilian Embroidery (Thank God for spell checker!) and she uses silk thread that is so thin, I can't see the twist! At least with thread I can control the color easier. (She has a LOT of thread!) (And you thought model trains were expensive!)

As far as the Dome is concerned, I think I am leaning myself towards trying to build it from flat styrene sheet. That would make a fabulous scratchbuild project all in itself! (Probably would have to show everyone a few failures too):evil:

Wayne


Multicore electrical cable is available in a multitude of gauges. It shouldn't be too difficult to find some that was suitable. After all, you don't need a large amount and it wouldn't take much to strip a few pieces of scrap cable to find what you want.

Good luck with the scratchbuilt dome! :shock: :shock: :shock: I think you're going to need it. :?

What about using a domed top from a can of shaving cream or deodorant? There is a huge variety of shapes and sizes in the shops.

Perry

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Wayne, with regard to building a 2" dome, have you considered papier mache over a card frame? Might work :?

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Wayne - why not shape your dome from a block of balsa wood. Not too difficult - shape it, sand it and treat with either aircraft dope or sanding sealer. You could make it as a "plug-in" dome should you want to remove it for any reason. If the whole thing must be styrene, you could use the balsa dome as a "plug" and use the "hot" styrene emthod I mentioned earlier. I've spoken to a couple of my ex. boat modellers and they say it will work at this size - just a bit more tricky in that you would have to make a temporary "frame" to clamp the soft styrene sheet into so that you can press it over the dome plug.

Petermac.

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Good idea, I think part of the art of scratchbuilding is to press into service anything that comes to hand, ideas or materials.

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Here is my first attempt to figure out how to build a Dome. It's only paper, but I cut it out all in one piece. The problem I had was the form I used to drape it over. It was 2 1/4" in diameter and I cut the paper form to fit a 2" diameter. :evil:
I had to use clear wrap to force the paper form to lay down over the form, but it gives you the idea.

Petermac, Your balsa wood idea would work, but you know what, I can be the most stubborn person when it comes to doing something that seems impossible to do. I guess I just like to be challenged. I know I can make this thing out of flat styrene sheet and I guess I won't be happy until I prove myself wrong. Besides if I do succeed in making it, won't it be Great! That's worth a 30 minute conversation piece alone when someone asks, "How in the world did you make that!"
Another thing you need to keep in mind, I don't as yet have a layout room, so all I've got it is Time.

Wayne





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Looks like somebodys head :D :D . No seriously that is looking good. Just thinking about this dome how about the ball of the end of a ball cock, cut in half and you have a dome and one spare to make another :D .
Phill

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That looks pretty good to me Wayne.

In fact, that's exactly how they made the domes for the cropstores here in UK - out of segments of fibreglass bolted together rather like the segments of an orange.

I'm sure you'll make it work and I look forward to reading your thread on "how I did it"

Petermac

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That was just an attempt to verify how I was thinking. Only took about 20 minutes to layout and cut out of paper.

One thing for sure, that I have already learned, I must wait until the silo is built before making the dome. It is critical that I know Exactly what diameter the dome must fit. Another thought, I wonder just how "Round" my silo will actually be? Only time will tell.

Wayne

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Well, the drawing is done! I will be starting the actual cutting, maybe even tomorrow, if I feel ambitious enough.
By the way if anyone cares, I need to cut out the silo blocks Exactly 9/64" x 11/32", oh and I need One Thousand, Three Hundred And Seventy Six of them. :roll: :roll: :roll:

May have to come up with a way to cheat there. :shock: I actually only need 688 for the outside of the silo. I'm now thinking I should do something different for the inside. 8)8)8)

Wayne

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Good luck, Wayne. :D

I look forward to seeing lots of progress when I return. :wink:

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OK, It's finally begun. All the planning and drawing is behind me and now my fingers are sticky. :evil: Fun isn't it! :roll: The material used is: .020 thick Plasticard.

The first picture shows how I had to scribe the outside of the silo center skin in order to get it to bend. I was careful to make sure that every scribe line was the same distance in from each end, so that the material would flex equally. If you look carefully you can see that I had to reduce the distance between the scribe lines to .06" from both edges in, for a span of one inch. I just could not get the materials edges to lay down without doing that. All other lines are spaced 1/8" apart.

Once all the scribe lines (one cut across the material) were in place, I wrapped it around a cylindrical object that was 1/2" in diameter smaller than what the finished silo needs to be (1.93"), and brushed solvent on the entire outside surface. This helped to soften and hold the round shape I wanted. However, it sprang back into the shape you see in these pictures.






Once the solvent had dried for about an hour, I wrapped it around another cylindrical object (caulking tube) which luckily was the exact inside diameter that I needed for the silo, and left it to set over night.

This morning I adhered the two angles to the edges, these will help stiffen the raw edges and give me bonding strength for the next step, which is adding the rectangular tube (see drawing). It's still no where near the 1.93" diameter that I need, but it is now surprisingly easy to bend and hold in place. Since I know that the next step will place a decent amount of stress on those angles I will probably let this set until this afternoon before proceeding.

The next step on bonding the rectangular tube in place will be a little tricky. Problem is, I cannot get enough solvent along the entire length for a bond without the first part evaporating. If I do one dege at a time, I cannot be sure that the rectangular tube will be at the correct angle to it's edge, to form a true circle. I need four hands working at lightening speed. :roll: :roll: :roll: Been thinking about using rubber bands to hold it all in place, then I could just feed in the solvent. That's assuming that the whole thing doesn't just go flying around in the room from the rubber bands. :oops:

Wayne




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Is that the size, if it is its huge :shock: or is it due to a close up shot.
Looking good anyhow.
Phill

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It is a very close up shot, but it's still large too. From edge to edge it is about 4 inches across.

More to follow.

Wayne

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What an afternoon! :shock: :shock: :shock:

It really helps when you have a plan, but as plans go, so goes the plan. As you can see from this first picture, I had to add a shim to one edge of the 1/8" x 1/4" rectangular tube. When I bonded the angle to the edge of the silo on that side, I got it a tad bit too close to the edge, it looked fine to me, but when I tried to hold the edge next to the tube, it just would not stay where I wanted it too.:evil: :evil: :evil: So with the shim in place, I was able to form a complete circle, however now it has grown by .020 on the circumference. Not a big change, but that's why the dome will be the last thing to get built.






Now I have a completed circular tube, you can even see most of the scribe cuts I had to make to get this thing to flex.






The climbing tower is next on the list of things to do, so here it is in a slightly blurred picture. Seems the camera has trouble focusing on two different heights at the same time. :shock: If you look at the top of the silo you will see another change to the plans. I had to add a shim to the outside of the rectangular tube to space the flat stock farther away from the silo itself. If you will remember this flat stock forms the channel that the climbing tower will slide down on, to lock it to the silo.






Now comes the assembly! Well it turned out OK, albeit turned slightly to the right from the silo's shape. It's actually in a slight twist from top to bottom. A view from the bottom looks much better that this one. Trust me, you can't tell it by looking at it in real life, just too much going on in a small space to see it. I was Very pleased the way this slid down on the silo. Not even a wiggle all the way down! :shock: :shock: :shock: I must next extend the edges of the 7/16" diameter tube, that is the climbing tower, to close up the gaps on both sides. Edge to edge bonding with a 1/8" wide by .020 thick strip, sounds like fun to me! :roll: :roll:





Now for the finish to today's post. The silo with the climbing tower installed, of course all the blocks must next be cut and bonded in place, Anybody out there want to help!

Wayne




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Well Wayne I have to say I admire your work. That's an excellent beginning to what should turn out to be another great addition to the forum.

Wayne Williams
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Thanks Bob, You know it really helps when you enjoy what you are doing, and I am having fun doing this.

There were a couple of times this afternoon that I wondered why I choose a round project though! Might as well get used to it, because the thought will return when I start that Dome! :evil: :evil: :evil:

Wayne

rector
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Now that is impressive, Wayne :!: 8) Great modeling :!: :!:

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Nice job on a difficult project Wayne.
Great photos and descriptions too.
Thanks for showing us how you can do it if you give it a go...
Looking forward to seeing the project develop. Well done.

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Wayne,you are working wonders mate what an intro to
scratch building, talk about in at the deep end,
S P L A S H.!! :shock: :o :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)

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Dwayne - the shape is looking good!! Now to the cutting of the panels!!! How about scribing of the panels instead?

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Wow! Thanks for the comments Guys!

darrenscots wrote: How about scribing of the panels instead?

Good timing Darren! I have just spent way too long trying to bond the first (and only) block onto the silo. As far as I can tell It's Impossible! :evil: :shock: :roll:

I have made three of them (9/64" x 1/8") and could not get them located on the spot I wanted on the silo. Several times I couldn't even figure out witch side was up! They are way too thin (.005") to work with. The only way I could even pick them up was with tweezers, and even then, they would buckle up and fly across the table! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

OK, got that out of my system!

Great idea Darren, I think I will jump right on it. I have already taken a scrap piece of (.012) plasticard and scribed it. Now I need you guys to give me some good advice (you all do that, by the way). The scribe I used has a fairly sharp point, but not a cutting point. When I drag it across the styrene it is placing a depression not a cut. It looks great, but herein lies the problem, I can barely see it. Only under perfect lighting (dark outside right now) can I see the scribe lines. By the way I did try dragging an x-acto knife across the surface too. Those lines are even harder to see.

I am wondering if I try and wipe a washed down acrylic paint and immediately wipe it off, will the paint stay in the depressions?

Assuming it does, or you tell me how to make it stay, then how do I make this white styrene look like concrete and still be able to see those depressions?

At this point I am not sure how to proceed, I want this to look like the prototype. Just a thought .... can this be as simple as wiping the dark into the depressions after I have made it look like concrete?

Wayne

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See the attached link re simulating Concrete....the tricky part is how to retain the scribed joints without losing them in the painting process...

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12972&hilit=culvert

Marty
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... and I would do the base concrete coat first and then, once dry, a dark/er wash and wipe off to highlight the scribed grooves.
Maybe use a slightly larger scribe tool?
Have a read of Perry's painting and weathering descriptions in both his low relief warehouse and Goods Shed posts.

phill
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What a great scracthbuild, very interesting, look forward to next thread. Well done.
Phill

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Hey Wayne - that really is looking great. Just the panels and the dome to do now !!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why don't you ask each member of this forum to scribe 10 panels each !!! :lol: :lol:

Really looking forward to the next stage - you must be "chuffed" to bits with it up to now.

Petermac

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Thanks for the suggestions guys! I have decided (about 4:00 am) to use the scribe tool that I have. I believe it is a good thing that these lines will be barely visible on a HO scale model. The more prominent they are, the less realistic the model becomes.

So after golf today I will begin the process of producing the outer skin, in one piece and start the scribing! :evil: :evil: :evil:

Darren,
I took a look at that concrete surface, thank you for that. It is tempting but, I would have to come up with a different color, the silo concrete is actually a brown color. Don't know why, maybe it's because of the 60 odd years it's been setting out there is the sun? You would think that, that would cause it to fade, not darken! I have a close up picture of it, and I will post it in a few days. When you see this picture you will also understand why I decided to use the scribe tool I currently have.

Wayne

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This is a picture of the actual concrete blocks that are in the silo. Well, I thought they were brown? So much for my memory!

Anyway you can see the gaps between the blocks very well here. There is no grouting at all.

Wayne

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I have, after a few hours of sore fingers, finished scribing the blocks into the silo's outer skin. I increased the thickness of the outer skin to .020. I felt I needed this to better accept the pressure of the scribe. It was a good thing I made that decision, as even this thickness was bowing on me. It was actually curling outward, the opposite direction I needed it to curl to go around the silo. :evil: :evil: :evil: It was in a 10" radius after I had finished scribing in all the vertical lines. Once I began the horizontal lines it did flatten it out some, which helped.

I took Perry's advice and let the solvent seep in from the top and bottom and the edges, that's the only spots where it is held in place. It worked Great!.

So, here it is with the outer skin applied to the silo! :D :D :D

Wayne

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Well worth a few sore fingers I would have thought Wayne. Great.

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Very impressive, Wayne. Keep going :)

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i think we shall have to start calling you,"Wayne Perry"
you are catching up with the master.
:? :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: 8)

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owen69 wrote:i think we shall have to start calling you,"Wayne Perry"
you are catching up with the master.


I Don't Think So![size=9] But Thanks For The Compliment! :oops: :oops: :oops:

Wayne

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My next step was to cover the climbing tower with the blocks. Now because this is a much tighter radius, I figured that I had to strip it instead of trying to get one sheet to bend around it. In this picture you can see where I started to scribe the blocks into the strip. Bad mistake! With that thin of a strip, if I had kept going I would have been scribing inside a tunnel. It started to bow very quickly, so I stopped and bonded it to the climbing tower. Once in place, the scribing went much easier, albeit slower.



Here is an end view of the completed climbing tower! I had to bevel cut each strip so that the thickness of the strip did not show on the outside of the tower. I thought I was doing a pretty good job with those angles until I saw this picture!



The Silo with Climbing Tower installed and all the blocks in place. :D :D :D



And another view. If you will notice, I have a problem headed my way. The gap where the climbing tower touches the silo, "What Gap You Say", yep that's the problem. No room left for the rings to go around the silo! :evil: :evil: I guess the tolerance I built in got ate up with all those little pieces! Hopefully I can block sand some off the edges of the climbing tower to make room for the rings.



I could, at this point, begin the construction of the Dome, :roll: but I think it deserves some more thought, :roll: :roll: :roll: OK, a Lot more thought .

So I will instead, begin the construction of the attached building. This is almost four times larger than the Outhouse, so I am liking it! :D :D :D

Wayne

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Wayne thats looking really good..good idea to go onto a different piece - this stops boredom and also the temptation to rush an element...

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You'll get to the dome in your own time, Wayne :!: This is great modelling :!: :!:

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Impressive, watching, and learning, with interest.
I think that the scribed blocks look great and once you've got a slightly darker grey wash into the grooves it will look fantastic.

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I have started the foundation of the structure. It is made up of concrete blocks. I tried to find some plasticard that looked like concrete blocks, but to no avail, so with the experience I have from the blocks of the silo I decided to scribe my own. Once I had laid out the shape of the silo on the floor and cut it out, I thought, why not, and just flipped it over and bonded it in place to reinforce the floor. Why just throw it away? You need to keep in mind that I have just started with scratchbuilding, and I do not have a scrap piece in the house! :shock:



And here is the foundation setting against the silo.




For the walls, all I could find in plasticard from my local suppliers was what they called passenger car siding. It is very close to what is on the prototype, albeit it a little bit different.



Now that I have actually looked at these pictures, I noticed I do not have one of the concrete blocks, sorry for that, :sad: but I will include it in my next post.

Wayne

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First class job Wayne like Perry you are showing us that even us mere mortals are capable of producing stunning models with a little time and effort and enthusiasm.
i am enjoying watching your progress
cheers Brian.W

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Wayne, I've only just got round to looking at this and am very impressed by your amazing first effort.
What also impresses me is how you - and everybody else for that matter - take the time and trouble to post all the construction stages (which probably takes as long as the actual modelling!). What a dedicated forum this is.
Ken.

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And long may it remain so Ken.

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Wayne,

Like Ken i've only just got round to looking at this - its great man.

Come on own up you must have done some scratchbuilding before. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Les

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wayne

just had a chance to read through all of this project. You have gone from little outhouse to mega structure in quick succession :!: I like the way you are approaching this and I think you are brave for tackling a round structure, which is not easy. I have never attempted scribing on the scale that you have done on this model and I am impressed with your results. Great stuff. I will be really interested in seeing how you solve the dome issue - it has got me stumped at the moment but I have got my thinking cap on. :? Looking forward to your next installment.

Bob(K)

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Just got in and caught up with this thread. What a great build well done mate. Look forward to the rest.
Phill

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Said it before - but this is a most extraordinary piece of excellent modelling :!: Hats off to you, Wayne :!:

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Thank You One And All. All those comments I think is what keeps me going. :roll: :roll: :roll: Yea, OK, I'm liking it too! :shock:

I (think) I have a way to build the dome. It may turn out totally a wasted effort, but, if it works, we will all enjoy it. (Don't ask yet). :evil: :D

The structure sub assembly has started. The foundation is there only to keep the wall from curling in while the glue sets.



I told you I would have a picture of the concrete block, here it is. The walls are now bonded to the foundation. I had trouble holding it in the right place to glue it. Ended up having to place pieces on the inside to hold the walls up where they belong. This had an added benefit in that it reinforced the flat walls also. The walls only overlap the foundation by .030, the thickness of the floor!



I have added the entrance door trim and threshold. All I had for the trim was a 2mm angle extrusion, which was too big, so I had to cut it down to 1mm on each leg of the angle.

I had tried mitre cutting before (on the facia of the Outhouse) and while I think it looks better that offset butting the pieces, I need to work on a way to control that 45 degree angle. :evil: :evil:



The next item of interest will be the structures roof. This will not be nearly as simple as the notch in the foundation for the silo was. All I had to do there was set the silo on the floor centered where it belonged and trace the outline. I cannot do that on the sloped roof! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wayne

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Wayne Williams wrote:I (think) I have a way to build the dome. It may turn out totally a wasted effort, but, if it works, we will all enjoy it. (Don't ask yet). :evil: :DNothing like suspense to keep a thread running :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wayne Williams
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I know [size=9](Perry taught me). :shock:

Wayne :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Wayne, the blockwork basecourse looks good. What have you got planned for the door & window?

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darrenscots wrote:Wayne, the blockwork basecourse looks good. What have you got planned for the door & window?

Now that's a good question, since I have never done a window before, and I do not have a program on my computer to produce it, I will just have to fake it. :shock: Really, I am still thinking about the windows, as far as the door is concerned, I have done something that I am not sure I will keep in place. Not to proud of it at this moment. I will post a picture of what I have done shortly.

Wayne

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This is the structure with the walls and foundation in place. As I stated in my previous post, I am not real happy with the window in the door. There is no "Glass" in the opening of any kind.



Roof panels are shown below, they took several hours of constant pattern work to develop. Right now they look acceptable to me, but that is only holding them in place, which is not easy to do on that slope. I will not bond them in place for quite a while yet, as I need to be finished with the windows and door before that can happen.



I think I got ahead of myself here. The walls were wanting to taper in towards each other, and in my haste to prevent that, the next thing I knew I had bonded in the trusses.:roll: :roll: So now I'm hoping they do not get in the way of working on the windows.



The next step will be putting in a floor to the silo. In reviewing the prototype pictures I noticed that the silo sets on a curved chunk of concrete that protrudes out beyond the perimeter of the silo. I do not have real good pictures of this area, so I may have to request them from my grandson.

One other thing, the kids have installed a hammock inside the silo. It is mounted thru the walls of the silo with large bolts. Anyone got any ideas on how to model a hammock in HO scale?

Wayne

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For a hammock I would have though needle and thread with paper or very thin material, either plain or coloured.

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Wayne, if it helps I have uploaded the window type below for you - these can be printed from trial versions of home plan software packages available on the internet (there are usually lots of different types of doors & windows). I printed my windows to card and then cut them out & pasted acetate to the rear however i have subsequently seen a method of printing the window frames to sticky labels and then sticking these to the acetate.

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Thanks Darren! I will give it a try! I have been All Day working on the Dome!!!!! Just after a trip to "Dunkin Donuts" for my wake up coffee this morning, I had an idea on how to build the dome, which seemed much easier than my original idea. Got so excited (every done that?) that I just had to get started. So the windows have waited for now, but they will return. :evil:

Wayne

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Wayne,

Having been away from the forum for a while I have to say how sorry I am to have missed the day-by-day development of this project.

Having only ever scratchbuilt a little outhouse before, this is indeed an ambitious undertaking; one which I, and I'm sure many more scratchbuilders, would hesitate to tackle. Most scratchbuilt buildings are boxes upon boxes and are relatively simple constructions. Your silo seems to combine examples of pretty much every geometric shape known to mankind! You have made fantastic progress in a short space of time, and perhaps even more importantly, I can see that you are enjoying solving the problems that crop up along the way.

A huge 'WELL DONE' from one who knows and appreciates the work involved.

No doubt you have already found your modelling skills have improved from your previous project but I can say from previous experience that there is no substitute for getting in there and getting something built. Your silo is inspirational for all those teetering on the brink of having a first dabble in scratchbuilding.

I shall continue to watch this project through to completion with great interest. Keep up the good work. :wink:

Perry

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Thank You Perry, that means a lot coming from you! I have really enjoyed making this thing. I am having small problems with the Dome as you will soon see, but even with that, I am still happy with what I have accomplished.

Nice to have you back Perry!

Wayne :D

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The beginning of the Dome!

Every project has it's difficult parts, and every difficult part has a beginning, and here is mine!

I began with a plan to build the dome by using heat to bend the styrene pie shaped pieces. The more I thought about this the less I liked it. Primarily because of getting the bent shape to be very accurate for 24 pieces. So after many hours of thought, I came up with this idea.

I began by cutting out a flat disk .020 larger in diameter that the exterior of the silo. Now I have discussed previously about the silo maybe not being exactly round. Well it turned out to be really close, but as predicted not exact, so I first cut out a flat disk the slightly larger than the inside diameter of the silo, then sanded down very slowly by hand to get as close of a fit as possible. I then dropped in into the bottom of the silo (silo was upside down) and tapped it into place with a pencil. This removed the little flat spots that were in the diameter. This disk is still removable and will be for awhile, but eventually will become part of the dome.

Now back to that .020 larger diameter disk, (shown in picture). I made this drawing and cut out the paper in order to set in the disk, using the marks on the paper I began bonding in the ribs for the dome. Five are shown here, 24 are needed.
I have scribed in the center a 7/16" diameter hole for a 7/16' diameter styrene tube. Well, I learned a lesson here, when you want a hole to be a certain size you must make it smaller than what you want, thus allowing you to sand the hole out larger for a good fit. The actual hole ended up being 1/2', so I had to wrap a flat strip around the base of the 7/16" tube to get a tight fit. That in turn meant I had to mitre the inside corner of every rib for clearance. I believe that's called the snowball effect.:shock:




Research told me that most farming silo dome's have six segments per quarter or 24 total, that meant each segment was 15 degrees wide. 15 degrees times 24 segments equals 360 degrees.

One quarter of the ribs are in place here. I had to skip every other rib because my fingers are too big. :shock:
If you will notice that each rib is taller than the top of the tube, that's because I needed to have each rib level with the tube, and the only way was to make them all taller and I will touch sand them down level later.


All the ribs are now in place. The final 12 ribs had to be put in with a pair of tweezers. As you can see I didn't quite place the ribs on their respective lines. The problem was I couldn't see the line with my hands in the way. :shock: This will only create havoc in work sessions yet to come.



And here it is from a side view.



Now for a test fit to the silo. I needed a good nights sleep at this point.



And you Thought I have showed you the difficult parts! :evil: :evil: :evil:

Wayne

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What a scratchbuild, excellent mate, genius. Think it is looking great. Keep it coming.
Phill

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OMG :shock: :shock: :shock:

That beastie will survive a twister :shock:

Looking good Houston. [size=9](ooh, sorry, Hudson)

Keep it coming.

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Wayne - that's really ingenious !!!

It looks brilliant but I'll bet your brain is a bit scrambled after all those maths and intricate cutting/fixing but a really clever way to get around a difficult project. As Marty says, it'll be as strong as the real thing - are you going to make the fodder to go inside ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Looking forward to the "topping out" ceremony !!

Petermac

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I'm utterly speechless, Wayne.

You have gone from being a complete beginner to an extremely accomplished scratchbuilder in one leap.

Your planning and execution has been outstanding.

By the way, I chuckled at your comment about the 'snowball effect'. I didn't think it would be long before you discovered it. :shock: I have called it seriously less polite things in the past though! :roll: :lol: :lol: It can sometimes be minimised by remaking the 'offending' part, meaning that only one part has to be duplicated. It can then help avoid several other parts needing to be modified or made more complex.

Perry

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As we say in modern jazz parlance, this really is "something else"! (I'll never look at a Jaffa Orange in the same way again!!!).
Ken.

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Ken wrote:....................................... (I'll never look at a Jaffa Orange in the same way again!!!).
Ken.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Petermac

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Wayne

This is excellent stuff, I am really enjoying watching how you problem solve, which is part of the fun of scratchbuilding. I assume all that hard work in building the dome will be invisible, as I expect some sort of outer skin will cover the ribs? If I am right, I am looking forward to seeing how you solve this one, presumably lots of petal shaped pieces :?:

From your original photos you cannot see the dome. Does this mean that you scaled the silo with your tape measure :shock: , how did you work out the final shape :?:

Bob(K)

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Novice wrote:From your original photos you cannot see the dome. Does this mean that you scaled the silo with your tape measure :shock: , how did you work out the final shape :?:

Bob, that structure attached to the silo, used to be just a storage shed. Last summer my grandson decided to make it his bedroom for when he returns from college during the summer. So, I went inside and helped him, wire, drywall, paint, put in a bathroom, door , windows, you name it. During that process we also poured concrete in the floor of the silo and the structure. With all that work I knew what the diameter of the silo actually was, and by measuring the height of one of those blocks in the silo and counting them vertically, it worked out to 40 foot tall. The dome is just a true half circle of that diameter.

Yes, I will cover the ribs with a thin skin. I am using .005 thick styrene. I didn't want a thick overlap to show, so that's why it's so thin. It does pose problems though. I have to be real careful with the solvent, so that it doesn't eat right through it. :shock:

Thanks for all the nice comments Everyone! They keep me motivated! :D :D :D

Wayne

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Wayne

Thanks for the explanation.

That looks like a handy little building, I would have thought you could have thought up an excuse to evict Grandson to create a railway room - dry rot or asbestos..... :lol: :lol:

Bob(K)

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Wayne-That is beginning to look like the real thing. How tall did you make the dome itself? In looking at 4 domes last week I guessed they would be between 32 and 36 inches tall. (Thats from about 60 yards away from the silos.)
Nice piece of work on a very difficult item. I'm looking forward to the finished product.

DAD (Paul W.)

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IF the .005" segments prove too difficult to join properly over the ribs, (and I sincerely hope they won't), you might perhaps consider a lightweight filler - I think it's called 'spackle' in the States? Either that or one of the expanding foams that comes in an aerosol can. A little squirt into each segment, let it set, then carve/sand it to the profile of the ribs.

Just an idea.

Perry

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Don't know about Wayne Perry, but I think the foam sounds like a stroke of genius - from a genius !!! :wink: :wink: :wink:

Petermac

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Thanks for the hint about filling in the gaps. I have already given that an extreme amount of thought. I have however, decided to try it out with the .005 styrene sheets first. If that just plain fails I can always cut it off and use the filler. I just feel that the value of being able to say "I built that from Flat sheets, is priceless!!

Tuesday's are golf days for me so, no progress for today, but just wait till tomorrow!! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wayne

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Wayne Williams wrote:............................................

Tuesday's are golf days for me so, no progress for today, but just wait till tomorrow!! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wayne


Wayne - you need to get your priorities right !!!! There's a whole forum here who can't wait for the next post on this silo !!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good point about doing it all yourself 'though - I admire your tenacity (and skill) :wink:

Petermac

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Wayne - you need to get your priorities right !!!! There's a whole forum here who can't wait for the next post on this silo !!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good point about doing it all yourself 'though - I admire your tenacity (and skill) :wink:

Petermac


You know when I retired, golf was my priority! For some unknown reason now things seem to be changing. I still want to play golf, but I think about scratchbuilding while doing it! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Wayne :lol: :lol: :lol:

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In spite of all the humor on this forum, I will continue building the silo! :lol:
This is the beginning of placing the exterior skin over the ribs. The skin is .005 thick styrene. I just have not perfected the art of applying the solvent. :evil: :evil: :evil: It wants to leak down and get under my finger, and then promptly begins melting the styrene sheet.:twisted: When I reduce the amount of solvent, then it doesn't bond. :roll: Maybe by the time I'm finished with this dome I will have it figured out.



This picture shows every other opening covered with the styrene. You can see where the solvent has leaked under my finger in the lower right corner of the dome.




And the Dome is covered! Around the bottom edge I have bonded a flat strip, this will act as a guide to align the dome on the silo. It protrudes below the base of the dome by about 1mm.



Another test fit photo.



Next up I will be adding the 24 rib covers to the dome. These are very thin strips of rounded styrene 1mm wide. They will go next to each pie shaped piece and will disguise the fact that I overlapped every other pie shaped piece. At least that is what my thinking says it should do!


Wayne

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Wow !!!

Brilliant Wayne - nothing else !!!

Petermac

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Wayne,forget the humour,looks like you will have the last laugh
that is some build. :) :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)

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I am impressed :!: :!:

If that's the work of a "first-timer", we've got one hell of a scratchbuilder coming along shortly :!:

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Inspired.... just inspired. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Wayne, thats looking great. Would a light sanding help remove any obvious overlaps before you put on the rounded styrene strips?

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If I wore a hat I would take it off to you, Wayne!

I have to admit I didn't think you would be able to do it this way. :shock:

I would advise caution regarding the suggestion of sanding material that's only .005" thick though. It would be only too easy to go right through it. I like your idea of the rib covers. Once those are added, paint will help hide any remaining minor flaws - although it doesn't look like there will be many.

Brilliant result. :D :D

Perry

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Thanks for the comments guys!

I will not be sanding the edges down, because I tried it on a piece of scrap and just didn't like the way it looked. Just could not keep it even throughout it's length.

Besides, I think the way I am heading will help me to balance out the slight width variances I have in the pie shaped pieces. When I come up to a piece that is wider, I can place the rib cover on top of it, thus making it look narrower, and if the piece is narrow, I can place the rib cover adjacent to it to make it look wider.

Snowball Effect! :evil:

or

Oh What Wicked Webs We Weave! :evil:

Wayne

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I can see you have the kind of thinking that's needed for a good scratchbuilder Wayne. :lol:

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Wayne

Most impressive result and a clever solution to a tricky problem. I think it will look great once all the ribs are in place and it is painted. Great stuff, well done.

Bob(K)

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After this Wayne nothing will be a unmakeble project you have really got into this well and are doing a fantastic job.
I eagerly await the finished product you will be able to do special order commisions for people.
Cheers Brian.W

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henryparrot wrote:After this Wayne nothing will be a unmakeble project you have really got into this well and are doing a fantastic job.
I eagerly await the finished product you will be able to do special order commisions for people.
Cheers Brian.W


You may think this is egotistical but I don't believe there is an unmake-able project. In my business for 20 years, I would go to a customers business and they would say "Can you build this?". Now I'm out there looking for work, what do you think I would say? Of Course I Can Build It! Then on the way back home I'm sitting in the car driving, wondering, "How In The World Am I Going To Build This?" :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Well I always got it built, so I think that has given me this confidence, if I can close my eyes and see it in my mind, I can build it!

It's been fun for 20 years, and it's still fun!

Wayne :idea:, :idea:, :idea:, :idea:, :idea:, :D

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Nothing egotistical about that, Wayne. We know what we can and can't do. But really the only limiting factor is our determination.

Mike

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MikeC wrote:Nothing egotistical about that, Wayne. We know what we can and can't do. But really the only limiting factor is our determination.

Mike


Well then, in that case, just call me determined! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wayne :D

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I decided after doing some assembly and disassembly of the Dome that I needed some kind of, call it a lock if you will, just a way of aligning and holding the Dome in place on the Silo. After several sketches and throwing most of them in the trash, I came up with this.

The disk is a snug fit into the inside of the Silo. It's almost impossible to see in this picture, but I sanded the edge to a bevel, which helps it to enter into the Silo. Keep in mind that the diameter of the Silo is not perfectly round, however this disk is as round as I can make it. So when it goes in it has to reshape the Silo into a better circle. It also, as it goes down into the Silo acts as a lock to hold the Dome in place. I can now hold it upside down and even shake and it stays in place. :smile: :smile: :smile:




After that little project I turned my efforts to attaching the rib covers. Now I know that these little buggers are small, but wow, are these things ever Small. You can tell from this photo that I have not learned how to use the solvent neatly. In fact I had to be very careful and work on opposite sides of the Dome from one Rib to the next. The solvent was weakening the .005 thick Skin of the Dome. In one spot I actually thought it was going to eat a hole right through it. Luckily it did not. At that point was when I started working from one side to the other to let the solvent cure longer before working next to it again.

I really hope the painting will hide the rough surface of the Dome, guess only time will tell.



So here is the Silo with the Dome installed.



I did place a cap over the Climbing Tower but as I now see in the picture, you can't see it! :evil:

I guess it's now back to the windows, and to set down and work on my "To Do List".

Wayne

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Brilliant Wayne, absolutely brilliant.

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Fantastic Wayne.

I very difficult project carred out to perfection. It looks just like the rwal thing !! I'm full of admiration for your "determination". :wink: :wink:

Now all I want to see is how you tackle the maize ! :lol: :lol:

Petermac

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Blooming marvelous wayne, well done.
Phill

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Actually I think the rough surface resulting from the solvent looks like a bit of wonderful weathering! Mentioning wonderful, everything about this project is!!!
Ken

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Excellent Wayne - Ive seen those huge silos when I've been over the pond and I know that yours is a fabulous representation of one.

Fantastic.:D :D

Les

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That's a nice bit of natural 'weathering' already built in then, Wayne. I wouldn't worry about the rough surface - it'll look great when it's painted. :wink:

Well done. Fabulous job! :D

Perry

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Wayne, it looks great. Once you start painting it all that effort you spent scribing the blocks on the tower walls will really come through.

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darrenscots wrote:Wayne, it looks great. Once you start painting it all that effort you spent scribing the blocks on the tower walls will really come through.

Boy, I sure hope your right Darren. That is one thing I am concerned about, losing the blocks during the painting process. OK, that's not the only thing, it's actually the Entire painting process. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Spent the day putting in the windows and drilling 62 holes in the Silo for the steps and 48 holes for the metal rings that encircle the Silo. There are 31 vertical steps on the outside of the Silo. Me and my attraction for detail! I think I have the steps figured out, but making them all to look alike will be the ultimate test.

One question for all you painters out there. Should I paint the Silo before mounting the steps and metal rings in place or after? The steps and rings are very small wire (black),The steps protrude out from the Silo .057 and are .14 wide. :shock: (That's assuming I can make them that small)

Wayne

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I would paint the silo first then add the ladder, if its a different colour to the silo. Also if the ladder is a different colour to the silo, , then i would paint that before i assembled it onto the building.
Phill

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Wayne

A fantastic project, which is working out so well. I am really impressed with the results of the dome - just outstanding :!: I am really looking forward to seeing the finished product after it has been painted. I too would paint the Silo first and then paint the ladder and attach it. You could consider using black plastic to make the ladder assembly. This will ease the painting later.

by the way, we haven't forgotten the outshouse either, which I am sure is due a lick of paint :lol: :lol: :lol:

bob(K)

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Thanks for the advice guys, I will follow it. That however means the painting is not too far in my future. :( :( :(


Novice wrote:by the way, we haven't forgotten the outshouse either, which I am sure is due a lick of paint :lol: :lol: :lol:


:D :D :D Yes, it does need some paint. It would help if I had more confidence in that part of the project. I have decided to wait on the painting of the Outhouse and paint both projects at the same time. Two small projects and only one big mess! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Wayne

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Whatever you do when you finnished the painting show the missu's otherwise she have you decorating :D :D
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Wayne Williams wrote:............One question for all you painters out there. Should I paint the Silo before mounting the steps and metal rings in place or after? The steps and rings are very small wire (black),The steps protrude out from the Silo .057 and are .14 wide. :shock: (That's assuming I can make them that small)

Wayne


I would certainly say paint the silo before attaching the steps, Wayne.

I don't know what kind of paint you intend using, but to avoid obscuring detail, work with the paint thinned. A couple of thin coats is far better than one thick one. This certainly applies to enamels anyway - the only type of paint I use. I'm guessing it's the same for acrylics, etc.

Perry

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I only have access to Acrylic paints. Much easier to clean up afterwards also.

I do have a question though, the Silo is currently white styrene, I need to paint it to look like concrete that looks more light brown to tan than light grey. Do I have to do a complete paint job of it in, say a light tan color, completely hiding the white styrene, then begin trying to make it look like concrete?

Wayne

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As Perry says, keep the paint thin, especially early on. Thin the acrylics with water. You can buy loads of different mediums for acrylics, but every one I've used gives at least some degree of gloss.

It's going to be tricky to find the balance of enough paint to look concretey without clogging up the detail. I'd like to suggest you use artist's gesso for your white because it's gritty and matt finish. Also it accepts stains wonderfully well, which should help you get an authentic look. It won't be quite as water-resistant once it's done, so bear that in mind. It won't be fragile though :wink:

You're getting to the stage of using paint which is deliberately either transparent or opaque. Obviously any paint with white [or gesso] will be opaque, although such a mix could be thinned to be almost transparent. If I was tackling this job, I must admit I'd be unsure of how to go about it, but I'd start with a pale mix of browny-grey + gesso , kept thin, just thick enough to cover without killing the detail, over all of the concrete.
Once thoroughly dry I'd use some thin, transparent darker staining colours to vary it. This is where the gesso base will be very helpful.
I'd strongly suggest you practise on some scrap styrene beforehand.
You could even practise on some good styrene, because it woudn't be too hard to wash it all off afterwards. Methylated Spirit on a cloth would help remove any stubborn bits.


Mike

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Oh My! I feel like I'm back in the first grade again!

Guess it's off to the craft store to find some white gesso. At least the wife knew what it was. :shock: :shock: :shock: :lol:

Thank You MikeC, lots of advice that I dearly need!

Wayne

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I have been working on my "To Do List". While writing it I realized that I must be able to get at the bottom of the Silo in order to install all the steps and rings. In that regard I have added the same design I used on the Dome to attach the base. This is an edge view of the base showing the disc that will slide up into the Silo.



Now I can install and uninstall the base at will. The base is two layers of .030 styrene bonded together. I still need to get some of that putty to fill in around the edges of the base.



I have spent most of this afternoon working on the roof for the structure. I have sat down with this project, several times now, and figured out to lay out difficult areas. Let me tell you, this roof has surpassed all the other headaches ten fold. Getting that cut out for the shape of the Silo, laid out onto a sloped roof ......Priceless!



And a three quarter front view. The roof is just setting lightly on the structure. At this point the only thing holding the two halves of the roof together is the edge to edge bond at the peak of the roof. (Must handle with care!) You may also notice, the overhang off the end (away from the Silo) is too long. I made it way longer so that I could keep working that Silo shape down to get a better fit. I intend to leave it this way for awhile yet. Once I am really happy with the way everything fits together I will trim off the excess roof material.



Now a three quarter back view. You can really see the excess material on the roof in this view.



The test fitting of all the pieces.



Next up, well I think I must start working on the way the rings will attach to the Silo. I will actually put on one, maybe two of them and try sliding the climbing tower on and off. All rings will come off prior to the start of the painting. (Can't believe I'm talking about painting already!)

Wayne

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Wayne, that is coming together very well!

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Wayne I've been thinking about the acrylics - I used Slaters Plastikard 'Stone" over Evergreen styrene sheet in my station building. While the Slaters took the acrylic paint very well, the Evergreen did not. Fortunately for me, the Evergreen shows only as interior walls, so it wasn't a real problem. Maybe it was greasy with all the handling :? I hope you don't have any problems with coverage.

Mike

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MikeC wrote:Wayne I've been thinking about the acrylics - I used Slaters Plastikard 'Stone" over Evergreen styrene sheet in my station building. While the Slaters took the acrylic paint very well, the Evergreen did not. Fortunately for me, the Evergreen shows only as interior walls, so it wasn't a real problem. Maybe it was greasy with all the handling :? I hope you don't have any problems with coverage.

Mike


Nice to know that MikeC, thanks! I went out this morning and purchased some White gesso. From what I understand of this subject, I will thoroughly wash the styrene parts with soap and water, completely dry, then cover it with this gesso. Allow 24 hours to dry, then the acrylics should bond quite well to that surface. If I'm heading in the wrong direction, PLEASE, someone stop me!

Wayne

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It should be ok after that. Even if you find it won't adhere, you'll still find plenty of use for the gesso. Do practise on something expendable first though :D

Remember, while I don't think you're headed for any major disaster, I said this is how I'D go about it. I'm not trying to say it's the best or only way. I DO know that gesso can give an excellent concrete look.

Mike

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If your gesso is our plaster then it might be as well to add some PVA glue to the gesso before applying it to the plastic. Should help it to stick.

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It'll look and behave just like white paint, Bob.

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Fair enough Mike. I must say the suspense of waiting to see what happens is killing me. :lol:

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I have never had any problem getting paint to adhere to Evergreen styrene and I have used quite a lot of the material, but it is a very good idea to wash the grease off of it before painting.

Perry

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While again working on the "To Do List" I realized that I could not just glue the structure to the Silo. The painting was obviously different, plus the rings which had to be installed on the Silo were also "Inside" of the structure. Therefor no way to install the lower rings after painting. :x :x :x
So I was forced into developing a way to attach the structure without using glue.

Not long after I sat down to "Think" about the problem, I realized I could use the same mechanism as was used by the Climbing Tower. The Tower is only long enough to get under the structures roof, thus leaving the bottom channel open for use.

Here is what I have come up with.



In the above picture you can see where I have notched out both sides of the vertical channel for the Tower. In the left side of the picture you can see what was added to the structures floor to align the structure to the Silo. This view perhaps shows it a little better.



And this picture shows the Structure attached to the Silo. As the two alignment pegs go into the notches, the Structure is about 1/4" above the ground. It then will slide vertically down until resting on the ground, locked in place by the pegs in the channel.



Just realized I have forgotten to upload one picture, so I will post this and return soon with more.
Wayne

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Ingenious Wayne. I'm bowled over with admiration for the way you have solved yet another problem.

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Robert wrote:Ingenious Wayne. I'm bowled over with admiration for the way you have solved yet another problem.


:oops: :oops: :oops: :D :D

Thanks Bob, but you know what they say .... "Necessity Is The Mother Of Invention." :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wayne

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All right, I've got the picture I wanted and here I go again.

This is the Prototype photo that I am working so hard to model. If you look closely you can see the rings and steps going up the Silo. Look to the left of the steps and you will notice couplings, for lack of another word, which extends the metal rods (ring) so they reach around the Silo. There are two of these couplings on the Silo on every ring.



This Photo shows the couplings a little better.



It was never my intention to model these couplings, but as projects go, so goes the projects! Sometimes I wonder whose running this show, me or what I'm working on!!!
Anyway, while I was test fitting a few rings and steps, I found out that it is difficult to "Tighten Up" the rings on the diameter of the Silo, what I needed was something to help hold the rings in place around the outside diameter. :idea: :idea: :idea: Why not use the couplings, only instead of extending the metal, attach it instead. So here's what it looks like now.



There are only two coupling installed here. I had to put some in just to be sure they did what I intended them to do. All the rings, couplings and steps must come off before painting. So right now I'm just rotating the same rings from top to bottom to save on materials. I'm quite sure all these will be useless once the holes are all in place.

You can see 2 of the steps I intend to use. I have punched in all the holes for the steps and am currently punching in the coupling holes. I must install a ring at each location, so that I can make sure the rings are running parallel around the outside. Once I'm happy with each rings location I punch in the holes for the couplings. Should be done with all those holes sometime this week. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Once all those holes are in place, I will then turn my attention to the rings that go around the Climbing Tower. :shock: Will these ever end? :roll:

If you will notice the second ring down from the top, on the right side, I have a bend in the ring, that was caused by not paying attention to the natural curl of my wire coming from it's roll. That bend is actually a twist in the wire. I have to make sure that the wire is placed around the Silo the way it comes off the roll.

This picture shows the mess that will be on the inside of the Silo. (I'm still thinking on how to disguise that.)



Well you folks said you like pictures, so let me know if it's getting out of hand!

Wayne

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The pictures are great wayne post as many as you can
Your going to need a long pair of tweezers to reach down the bottom of the inside of the silo Wayne or have you another wicked plan?

cheers Brian.W

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Wayne, if you cut the wire ends flush with the internal wall and then glued the ends then you would then be able paint the internal wall and have the hammock in place?

Best Regards
Darren

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Looking at the photos of the "prototype" Wayne - the rings look the same colour as the silo - why do you have to paint the silo BEFORE fitting the rings ? You could always bring out the rings with a bit of weathering showing rain stains on the concrete from the rings. Maybe I've missed something on the photo !! :roll: :roll:

I do greatly admire your skills at solving the multitude of problems a project like this has thrown at you. :wink:

Petermac

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darrenscots wrote:Wayne, if you cut the wire ends flush with the internal wall and then glued the ends then you would then be able paint the internal wall and have the hammock in place?
:shock: :shock: :shock:
I see what you mean, but would they stay tight? The wall thickness is only .020 (center) and .012 (outer skin). I'm afraid that they would come loose from all the handling (grandkids). Not sure what glue I would use in that application either.

The wires mic out at .023 in diameter. I had one thought, to place a styrene ridge at the top and bottom of the Silo tube, about 3/16" from the ends. I could then place the inner skin inside that to hide the wires. Not exactly proto-typical, but then neither is the hammock! :shock:

Petermac Wrote: why do you have to paint the silo BEFORE fitting the rings ? You could always bring out the rings with a bit of weathering showing rain stains on the concrete from the rings.

First reason: I like to follow the advice given to me on this forum. :D
Second reason: I was also concerned about the paint pooling around and running down from the wires.
Third reason: How would i weather something so thin? Keep in mind that I have never painted anything like this before, so I probably don't even know what I'm talking about.


henryparrot Wrote: Your going to need a long pair of tweezers to reach down the bottom of the inside of the silo Wayne or have you another wicked plan?

I just happen to have a pair of very long nosed needle pliers from my bass fishing days. I have already tried them and they worked beautifully!


Update: I have been busy this afternoon punching holes in the side of the Silo, lots of holes. I have just six more rings to put on and punch their respective holes, then it's on to the holes for the Climbing Tower. :smile:
Wayne

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I think i have missed something but why worry about the inside of the silo as much, has it not got a dome roof on it, thus we or no one will see the inside? :? .
I said it before and i am saying it again, WHAT A BRILLLIANT BUILD
Following this with interest. Well done.
Phill

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Also following with interest , looking real good

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phill wrote:I think i have missed something but why worry about the inside of the silo as much, has it not got a dome roof on it, thus we or no one will see the inside? :?

Phill, My grandson's, wanted me to build it like it is at their house. They have poured a concrete floor in the Silo and placed a hammock in it, plus have remodeled the attached building as a summer bedroom, for when they come back from college.
Just a note, they also have been talking about building a "Deck" up on the top of the Silo. :shock: :shock: :shock: And have already asked to build one for this model, so they can see what it looks like, "Up There".

So I have designed this Silo with a removable dome so that when they visit me here, I can remove it so they can "See Inside!!" :roll: :roll: :roll:

What we do for our GrandKids!!!!

Wayne

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Wayne Williams wrote:.................Well you folks said you like pictures, so let me know if it's getting out of hand!

Wayne


We do, and it isn't, Wayne. This is a truly superb demonstration of scratchbuilding. I hope we never meet in competition! :shock: :lol:

Perry

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Wayne Those pictures and your comments make it easy to follow your progress. Your doing a super job on a very difficult item to scratch build.
This whole project has been very interesting to follow.

DAD (Paul W.)

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The holes are finished, all 221 of them. Yes that's what I said, two hundred and twenty one holes in this Silo that is only 6 1/2" high by 2" in diameter.
I also have bonded on the roof's facia pieces. I am trying to get the roof to set in place without bonding, but it's not being very friendly in that regard. I need to do some reinforcing of the roof's surface also. I think I have gotten the cart before the horse in regards to the reinforcing the roof. I probably should have waited to put on the roof trusses, even though they did solve a problem at the time. Oh well, it will just take a little more patience to get it done.
You can see in this picture the spacers that I have placed in the corners. They help locate the roof because they actually touch the end wall of the structure. The other two blocks were placed to try and lock it in place to the last truss, but didn't work quite like I thought it might. :evil:



Here you can see some of the holes that have been punched (not drilled) the Silo's wall. I decided to throw in the x-acto knife for some visual reference.



And a back side view.



All in all, I am happy with the build, but there is one area that I am not satisfied with, the entrance door and window. I just my rip it out and do it over again. :twisted: This thing looks so neat, but not the door, so I think I will just "Bite The Bullet"

Wayne

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You are going to have to explain the 'punching' of holes in such a delicate structure Wayne. I'm agog with curiosity.

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Bob, not really to sophisticated really, Just used a compass that happened to have a tapered point. I tried to find a numbered drill bit, but nobody carried one that small. Needed a number 74 or 78 size, or anything around that.

Once I noticed that the point was tapered, I just started poking holes in styrene until I could get the wire to go through easily, then set the compass point to that depth.

You can see in the picture where the one point is out quite a ways. I needed that where I have two wires going through the same hole (next to the Climbing Tower).

All I did was place the point where it needed to be, and with slight pressure began rotating the compass until I could feel the point coming through on the inside. (only poked myself three times out of 221 :shock: :shock: :shock:)

Really, this worked probably better than a drill bit would have. It was real easy to keep the hole exactly where I wanted it.

Wayne

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Yep, that explains it. Thanks Wayne.

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221 holes - that's an amazing number, Wayne. Did you do all the work in a few sittings :?: I don't think I would have the patience to punch more than a few at any one time :?

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rector wrote:221 holes - that's an amazing number, Wayne. Did you do all the work in a few sittings :?: I don't think I would have the patience to punch more than a few at any one time :?

Tim, I don't think my eyes or fingers could have done that in one setting. It took three days at 2 hours per day to get them all in place. I had to install every ring, locate the holes, then remove the ring. Boring to say the least, but I can say with a smile, It's all done now!! :D :D :D

Wayne

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Wayne, your making great progress - your on the home straight now! All that attention to detail will come through in the final product.

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Stunning Wayne and the X-Acto knife shows the scale of the silo to perfection.

How you ever managed to do such intricate stuff at that scale - I'll never know - I'm full of admiration for you.

Petermac

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darrenscots wrote:Wayne, your making great progress - your on the home straight now! All that attention to detail will come through in the final product.

Boy, do I hope your right Darren! Loosing the detail of the block would ruin the whole look of the silo.

My Dad (and Mom) are coming down from Indiana to visit for about 5 weeks. I intend to take advantage of having another modeler here during that time. Since my nemesis is painting, that's what we will be working on!

So I have just a few days to complete the actual modeling, cleaning up some of the details that I'm not happy with, ie.: Entrance door, and Roof fit, then the painting starts. :( :shock: :roll:

Wayne

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Petermac wrote:How you ever managed to do such intricate stuff at that scale - I'll never know - I'm full of admiration for you.

Thanks Petermac, but it's really not that difficult. It only takes patience and not hurrying to get a specific item done.

I just bought a lighted magnifying glass, which should really help with the tiny stuff. I have some ideas on how to do windows differently, which will have some very small details. I need to get this down pat before I start building the House!!!! It has tons of windows!

Wayne

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I am learning a lot about how to do things in very small sizes. I have made mistakes that, while they seemed to look right while doing them, did not afterwards.

I did not like what I had done with the entrance door's window, so I cut it out and redid it. Is this what I wanted, well not quite, but it's much better than what I had to begin with.

Here is a picture of what I had first done.


And here's is version Two.


I did not remove the door, just because I think I would have done too much damage to the whole structure in order to get it out. So I just cut out the window. I tried to reshape the windows opening, it helped, but ... well I'm afraid it's the best I can do without major surgery. It is definitely more proportional now, which helps.



The first version was done with the smallest styrene strips I could get my hands on, and no window at all. The second was done with white electrical tape on top of clear plastic. As you can see here, I taped the "window" down to the matt, and marked out the locations of the window mullions. I then cut very narrow slits off the electrical tape, leaving one end still attached. This way I could pick up the cut end with my fingers of one hand and then pick up the entire piece with the other. I then placed the tape over the pencil marks for alignment. Once all four pieces were in place, trim the ends, and this was the result.



I do feel better about the window, much better in fact than what I had originally. I'm sure I could do better, but I need to do better planning in the beginning on these small details. Live and Learn, that's life!!!

Wayne

PS: Here are the two projects together.

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The exercise with the windows and white tape is an easy one in 4mm scale Wayne but in N a different ball game. It looks really good.

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This build is amazing, to say you have never done this before is beyond me.I mean you have done such a marvelous and expert job one would think you are a professional. You aint are and just kidding us :shock: :D .
I just think it is so fascinating watching the progress and your attention to detail is brilliant, well done.
Phill

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Since my nemesis is painting, that's what we will be working on!


Wayne, I am sure that you will get into the painting as you did with the white tape for the door..once you get started there will be no looking back! As I have just started painting* I am also particularly interested with your learning experiences.

(*tried cleaning a new acrylic paint I had bought from my brush using solvent not realising I needed to use water - this was an interesting experience as the paint congealed in in the brush initially!!)

Wayne Williams
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phill wrote:This build is amazing, to say you have never done this before is beyond me.I mean you have done such a marvelous and expert job one would think you are a professional. You aint are and just kidding us :shock: :D .
I just think it is so fascinating watching the progress and your attention to detail is brilliant, well done.
Phill


Gee Whiz! :oops: :oops: :oops:
Honestly Phill, I have never done this kind of thing before. I always felt I could do it, but just never sat down and tried. Whilst in high school, many moons ago, I built a one quarter scale ranch home out of balsa wood. That is the closest I have come to model building.

As far as the detail is concerned, I've always said "The last 10% makes the whole project". That goes for many things, not just scratchbuilding.

Wayne :D :D :D

Wayne Williams
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Wayne, I am sure that you will get into the painting as you did with the white tape for the door..once you get started there will be no looking back! As I have just started painting* I am also particularly interested with your learning experiences.


Well get ready Darren, because I'm not afraid to post even my worst attempt. I think everyone can learn watching how not to do it!!!! :D :D :D


(*tried cleaning a new acrylic paint I had bought from my brush using solvent not realising I needed to use water - this was an interesting experience as the paint congealed in in the brush initially!!)


Your not alone in that regard. Many years ago, having just hired in to a company, I was told to wash off this green stuff on the side of a vehicle. It was PVA (polyvinyl alcohol, a release agent). I hit that stuff with everything I could find, Acetone, Toluene, Mineral spirits, nothing was working, then my "Boss" walked by and told me to use Water! :oops: :oops: :oops: [size=9]I'm sure he did it on purpose too!

Like I said that's how we learn!

Wayne

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I have decided that I have a problem that needs fixing. When I pick up the Silo with the Structure attached, it flexes to much. This picture shows what happens, I have exaggerated it somewhat for the picture. this picture also shows my solution, but I will get to that in a minute.

I analyzed the structure and came up with a plan to solve the problem. Under the Climbing Tower is an open, but small channel. I will make a "Tongue" for lack of a better word, that will go up into the Climbing tower, as the tower is lowered into the structure.



I made the "Tongue" from a piece of the 7/16" diameter tube (scrap). This picture shows the "Tongue" sitting on a scale, which is sitting on the structure. I tried to line up the "Tongue" with it's mating surface, to help show it here. I added the collar to the "Tongue" to give more surface area for bonding support.



This shows the "Tongue" installed. I have added another reinforcement piece underneath to give 1/16" of bonding area for the "Tongue". That should be sufficient to keep it vertical, and hold the structure tight against the Silo while lifting it up. An added benefit, I have reinforced the roof trusses.



Now the Climbing Tower is being lowered down onto the "Tongue"



And finally, the Tower is completely in it's installed position. I can now pick up the Silo by the Structure and nothing flexes at all. :smile: While this did solve my problem, it was a compromise. I will no longer be able to disassemble the model once the rings are in place. The rings that go around the Climbing Tower go into the Silo, thus preventing the Climbing tower from being moved. Since the tower can't be moved, the Structure is now "Locked" onto the Silo. I guess everything is a give and take proposition!



My ace in the hole, if you will, is the Roof. I will now make it so that it will be removable. At least I will still be able to get inside and change a broken window after the kids leave! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Next ......Hint ....Soap and Water!!! :sad:

Wayne

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Great ingenuity Wayne - which has been the watchword of your whole approach to this project - well done.
Ken

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Excellent work Wayne, really original project too!

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Again you have worked on a problem and come up with a solution. Well done looking good.
Phill

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The Silo build is done! Well, just the building part. The painting is just beginning, albeit slowly.

I have capped the roof with a ridge cap, then took the next three pictures.





Now, I have played around with mixing colors up to try and match the concrete color of the actual Silo. :evil: :evil: :evil: Definitely not an easy thing to do. I just compared the colors of the patches in this photo to the actual card, surprisingly they look very similar. :shock:
You can see in this photo the joint lines I have painted. they were painted first and allowed to dry. I just painted the whole card and then immediately wiped off everything I could.

If you would number the patches from the upper left going down, the best match seems to be something between 2 and 3. I also tried dry brushing dark and light colors over the dried patches in an attempt to give is a textured look.

My feelings ..... I failed miserably! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: I am not happy with how the scribed lines are showing, especially in number 3, which was probably the closest match. I choose not to use black to fill in the scribe lines, perhaps that was an incorrect decision. I also do not like the textured look, does not look "To Scale" to me, too large of a texture!



I will post this and then go and get a picture of the actual concrete to post. Maybe that will help everyone tell me what I'm doing wrong!

Wayne

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Here is a photo of the actual concrete.



Wayne

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Wayne

My advice is not to be too concerned with finding exact matches. The effect of scale will make the model look darker even if you use exact colours. You should consider that you are looking at the object at a distance and, as we all know, things look more pale the further away they are. If you can walk away from the real object and see what it looks like at 'scale' distance.

From further away you will also get a feel as to whether the texture would really be visible and my insticts tell me that the concrete panels would look quite smooth, albeit considerably weathered.

I think you have to take the view "if looks right then it is right"- a saying so often used on this forum.

Best of luck though.

Bob(K)

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Wayne - you're clearly a perfectionist !!!!!

To me, the paint job looks wonderful and, as Novice said, there are some things you just CAN'T scale down.

As far as colour/texture is concerned, whilst I can't actually SEE the texture, either the middle or bottom test on the left look just about spot on !!

A really fantastic build. :wink: :wink:

Petermac

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Novice and Petermac, Thank You for the advice. I think you are both right, I am being too particular. And Yes I have been accused of being a "Perfectionist" before. :shock: :shock: :shock: :D

OK, I will accept the patch number 2 or 3, as far as color and texture is concerned, probably leaning towards number 2 as it is a little lighter in color, based upon Bob(K)'s advice on scale color. I do want to see if I can make the scribe lines show up just a little bit more though. :evil:

Now the next problem is recreating that same patch again.!!! :shock: :? :roll: :D :lol:

Wayne

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Wayne As it appears we are taking a straw Poll on this. I vote for number 2.
Once applied I believe it will look very close to the original silo.
I'm impressed with the concrete color you have come up with. As you know I have expressed concern in the past about finding a concrete color. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

DAD

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I don't think you are doing anything wrong, Wayne.

A little more experimantation and you will get the result you want I'm sure. Did you thin the paint before use? It's hard to tell on the photo, but I wondered if the paint was a little too thick. I don't mean applied too thickly - maybe just not thinned enough to give good smooth coverage. Two or three thin coats are far better than one thick one.

Perry

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Perry wrote:I don't think you are doing anything wrong, Wayne.

A little more experimantation and you will get the result you want I'm sure. Did you thin the paint before use? It's hard to tell on the photo, but I wondered if the paint was a little too thick. I don't mean applied too thickly - maybe just not thinned enough to give good smooth coverage. Two or three thin coats are far better than one thick one.

Perry



:oops: :oops: :oops: Thin the paint?????? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: Me, forget!!!!! :oops: :oops: :oops:

I think I will try ONE more test panel!

Wayne :shock: :roll: :oops: :lol:

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:oops: :oops: :oops: Thin the paint?????? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: Me, forget!!!!! :oops: :oops: :oops:

I think I will try ONE more test panel!

Wayne :shock: :roll: :oops: :lol:

Wayne, don't concern yourself about forgetting - happens to the best of us.
I reset a decoder & forgot the reset loco number of 3 - I thought I had blown up a chip as it did not respond when I punched in the loco number on the side of the cab :oops: :lol: :oops:

Marty
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Wayne,

Once you have put your base concrete coat on I would still try a light wash of either a slightly darker grey or a slightly lighter one. The wash will settle into the grooves and corners giving the paint job some depth.

Practice the wash on your spare bit you are using, I'm sure you'll work it out.
cheers

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I should have said, you have to Know something before you can say you forgot it!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

One thing about all this, I shouldn't and probably won't forget it again!

What do they say, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!!"

Maybe not quite appropriate, but you get the gist of it. :shock:

Wayne

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OK, everyone, get your good eyeglasses on and let me know what you think about this painting test.
The scribe lines were painted with black with a little Country Grey mixed in. Immediately wiped back off with a paper towel, then dried.

Formula for first coat: 3 drops of Country Grey Plus: 1 drop of Ivory White Plus: 1/2 drop of Honeycomb (Brown) Plus: water (See Below). All water was applied using a #2 artist brush dipped in a glass of water and held over the paint until one drop fell off (or was shook off) :smile:

Patch number 1 has 2 drops of water
Patch number 2 has 4 drops of water
Patch number 3 has 6 drops of water

My observations: Patch number 3 looks the best, and was much easier to apply.



Formula for second coat: 3 drops of Country Grey Plus: 1 drop of Ivory White Plus: 1/2 drop of Honeycomb (Brown) Plus: water (See Below).

Patch numbers 1, 2, and 3 each have 6 drops of water added (learned my lesson fast)

My observations: All three were easy to apply, and number 3 still look the best.



Formula for third coat: 3 drops of Country Grey Plus: 1 drop of Ivory White Plus: 1/2 drop of Honeycomb (Brown) Plus: water (See Below).

Patch numbers 1, 2, and 3 each have 6 drops of water added

My observations: All three were easy to apply, and number 3 still look the best. However I think it looked better on the previous picture (only two coats of paint).


Texture coat:
I took a cheap 1" brush and cut the bristles down to about half their length. The bristles are now very "stiff".

1 drop of Country Grey, brushed out on a paper plate to about a 1" circle.
I dabbed the cut off brush (hereinafter called texture brush) into the 1" circle, then tried to dab off most of the paint on a clean spot of the paper plate. Then dry jabbed the brush onto all the test patches.

I repeated this process for Ivory white, and Honeycomb (brown), not waiting for anything to dry.

1 drop of black mixed with a small dab of Country Grey, brushed out into a 1" circle on the paper plate. Then dry jabbed the brush onto all the test patches.





It was dark outside during the entire time of the test, and I did not change the lighting for any of the photos. The second photo for whatever reason looks lighter, but I don't know why.

Based upon my observation of the third patch looking better after only two coats, I now feel that I will probably do this over again using more water. OK Perry, go ahead and say it! :roll: :lol:

Well, what do YOU think?

Wayne

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Wayne, to my un-trained eye, patch 2 , 2nd coat looks good & for the textured, same patch 2.

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Good to see you're experimenting, Wayne.
I prefer the non-textured versions, such as trial #3, photo #2, [as you mentioned] I have doubts about the scale of any texture. But that's me.

If you're using gesso as your white, it should take thin, runny stains really well, and if you're also planning to use chalks they should adhere well.

Mike

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Top job Wayne, I think that number 3 Textured is the best.

Have you tried a medium gray wash over the texture?

I don't think putting the black/gray wash on first works as the concrete coat hides the wash, from what I can tell from the photo anyway.

phill
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Not done this type of painting before but i think No3 looks the best to me.
Phill

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No. 3 for me too Wayne - the others just look a tad "pale".

Re the "texture" - as I've said before, we can't actually SEE it but, what we do see is the slight "speckling" effect which, to me. DOES look like the imperfections in concrete blocks. It's that effect that makes it for me rather than any "roughness". You don't want the thing to look "pock-marked" but I do like the flecks.

Petermac

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If that was "0" gauge the texturing would be great but "N", I don't think it looks right - I'm sure if you were to scale up those "lumps" you would find them oversized. Having said that I so much admire the trouble you are taking to get this right and the saying "It's a wise man who looks things over, instead of overlooking things" comes immediately to mind.
Ken.

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Wayne-the best for me was in the 1st set of pics,last pic,2nd down. That looked spot on :D :D

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Thank you one and all for your comments. Much appreciated!

Ken, Just so you know, this is HO Scale, not N scale, and I do agree with your comment about the "Scale of the texture". Applying the texture is very difficult in that it is hard to control the size of the "Spot". When I have done it exactly right I can barely see the texture with the naked eye. That said, I am working on ways to apply it, very patiently and quite slowly as far as not building it up so fast. If I can "see it going on", then I am doing it too much and too fast. Practice makes perfect!

Petermac, texture may have been the wrong word for me to use. What you are seeing is indeed "speckling". The surface is still smooth to the touch.

Marty, "Have you tried a medium gray wash over the texture?" Never gave a thought of doing anything over the texture Marty, but now that you have said it, maybe it would reduce the boldness of the texture, which could only be a good thing in my mind. Thanks! (I can see another test coming!) :D

MikeC, :oops: :oops: :oops: I made a point of going out and buying the white gesso too, just completely forgot to use it!!! Do you think it will change anything that I have done so far? Or is it's use strictly for good adhesion? Am I thinking right in that the white gesso would be the very first coat on the silo? Then the second coat would be the black wipe for the scribe lines over the dried white gesso?

How many times do you test? As far as I'm concerned as long as I feel I am making progress with the testing, it will continue. This Silo, in my humble opinion, looks great, but with the wrong "Paint Job" it would be ruined.

Wayne :lol:

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Wayne Williams wrote:................Based upon my observation of the third patch looking better after only two coats, I now feel that I will probably do this over again using more water. OK Perry, go ahead and say it! :roll: :lol:

Well, what do YOU think?

Wayne


As if I would, Wayne. :roll: :lol: :lol:

You are, no doubt, learning loads about painting by doing the test patches. Only you can decide what looks right and satisfies you. It doesn't really matter what we think - as long as you are happy with the result. Opinions are often welcome, but shouldn't become your Rule Book.

I think you are now getting really close to achieving the finish you want. :wink:

Excellent job! :D

Perry

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Wayne Yes it does make a good foundation layer, but provided you're using acrylics thoughout, you could use gesso at any stage where white was needed in the paint mixing.
You're doing just fine without it, so I wouldn't worry about introducing it now.
I like the speckled look you've achieved, and have no doubt you'll nail the look you want.

Mike

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Wayne, I admire the trouble you are going to in order to get this "texture" right. I agree with most of the guys who have picked No3 as the best.

Now there's one more thing to try.
It might work, it might give the wrong type of finish, but it will certainly give you ideas for future project finishes.
I've used this technique for rendering finishes on cottages.

:oops: O yes, the technique:-
After you,ve jabbed your paint onto the surface and the coating looks done (but still fully wet), jab the brush lightly into a little talcum powder and then, in the same way, work it into the surface of the test piece. When dry, see if this helps, if not all you've lost is one more test piece, but it may just work.

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MikeC, I have tried the gesso on a new test piece. I put it on as the first coat, then tried to put on the black (to fill in the scribe lines) and immediately wipe it off. Failed miserably! I could not wipe it off at all, just made a big mess out of the whole thing. Finally I just washed everything off, gesso and all.
Then did it again, (glutton for punishment I guess), only did not use the black at all. Once I was finished with two layers of watered down paint I stopped, because I did not like where it was headed. The gesso filled in all the scribe lines to the point where I could no longer see them. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Jeff, OK, I will give it a try. Do you think I could try it on an older test piece by putting on another coat of paint? You are talking about jabbing it into a coat of paint aren't you? If your talking about jabbing it into the textured layer, then I have my doubts, as there is virtually no paint there. The textured layer is almost dry when it is applied.

Perry, I learned a long time ago that taking advice from my elders :roll: :lol: saves a lot of time and effort. I do however realize that I'm the one that must be satisfied with this paint job. I also know that I am my own worst critic. I intend to take all this help, mix it up and throw it on the wall to see what sticks. Whatever does, we will ALL learn from it!

Well tomorrow is a day of Golf! So I will be reading responses to this post tomorrow and painting on Friday! :D :D :D

Wayne

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OK Wayne Some gessos are thicker than others, so maybe that was the problem. Anyway, at least you know it's not for you. Sorry it wasn't helpful

Mike

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Golf :shock:

Who has time to spend on this - chasing a little ball around some greenery :?:

Takes up valuable modelling time :P

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Now Sol, it's nice to have more than one hobby. Actually it's the only one that even tries to keep me fit. So I guess I have to share my time. :roll:

Wayne

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MikeC wrote:OK Wayne Some gessos are thicker than others, so maybe that was the problem. Anyway, at least you know it's not for you. Sorry it wasn't helpful

Mike


Would it be helpful if I tried to thin the gesso with water? Would I still get the bonding effect that way?

Wayne

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Wayne, yes I suppose one has to keep fit so we can enjoy this hobby.

Sol

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Wayne I had assumed you were thinning it with water My fault for not mentioning it. :oops: It would be too thick if you didn't. It's designed to be diluted. It would still work very well when thinned. You can mix any acrylic paint you like with it too.
My concrete footbridge was painted that way - thin coats of off-white gesso, carefully stained with very dilute darker colours once it was thoroughly dry.


Mike

P.S. I've just posted a couple of pics of my bridge on my Swanhurst thread. Don't know if it'll be any help. Your concrete is probably rougher than that of the bridge.
http://yourmodelrailway.net/forum21/55-1.html

Last edited on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 07:17 am by

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Wayne Williams wrote:
Jeff, OK, I will give it a try. Do you think I could try it on an older test piece by putting on another coat of paint? You are talking about jabbing it into a coat of paint aren't you? If your talking about jabbing it into the textured layer, then I have my doubts, as there is virtually no paint there. The textured layer is almost dry when it is applied.
Wayne


More using a combination of paint and powder at once Wayne.
I saw this technique used on a demonstration stand (at a show) a few years back and the effect was brilliant. He was using two different (but simular) matt emulsion colours and powder to simulate the finish on old English cottage walls.

It went like this:- dab of first colour on stiff brush tip, stipple to partly colour surface, tiny amount of powder and stipple, second (simular) colour on brush tip, stipple patchily, more powder on tip and stipple some more, work over surface with more stippling to partially blend.

Hope this is clear, even if it's not the best piece of prose ever :!: Just a bit hard to describe in any other way :!: :!: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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MikeC, Sorry for my inept thinking on this subject. I'm afraid every little detail that you have probably taken for granted for many years, are major steps (if not leaps) in knowledge for me. I never took an art class, only time I've ever painted anything was when "she" said the house needs painting. :evil: Even then it was pour it into a trough, throw in the roller, and go at it. :roll: :D

I'm afraid I'm more like a bull in a china shop! :shock: :roll: :lol:

Speaking of a 'bull in a china shop', is it wise or not wise to speed up the paint drying process, between coats, by using say, a hair dryer? :?


Jeff, OK, I think I've got it. One more question though, is the goal here to completely cover the powder with paint, or just to get it to stick to the surface? Maybe another way to ask that, is this powder going to be part of the speckled look (where you would still see the powder) or a somewhat rough textured look?

Wayne

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Wayne, using less powder tends to make the look speckled, adding more makes the look more rough textured.
The powder, coloured by the paint, becomes more pronounced and 3D the more you use.
I'm afraid the only way to get it right is experimentation, as the demonstrator I saw was able to get varying effects, depending on how much and when he added the powder.

:shock: We could be starting something here Wayne :!: :shock:

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Wayne - hairdryers are often used for speeding things up, with no apparent ill-effects, although paint manufacturers don't advise it. I don't know why = I can't remember :?
Could even a very low heat distort the styrene?

Mike

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MikeC wrote:Wayne - hairdryers are often used for speeding things up, with no apparent ill-effects, although paint manufacturers don't advise it. I don't know why = I can't remember :?
Could even a very low heat distort the styrene?

Mike


I have been using a hair dryer to dry the paint between coats for all of my test panels. The styrene card does get hot, almost to the point of not wanting to keep holding on to it. I choose to hold it with one hand by the top corner, and hit it with the dryer. That way I could tell when it was getting too hot. :twisted: I did notice some waving of the flat styrene card, but only when it was at a point when I really wanted to drop it to keep from getting burned. I never actually dropped it though. Once I was done heating it up, I laid it on the counter and the waves disappeared.

Based upon those results, I would not heat my model up like that! Especially a "flat walled" shaped model. I think you would be asking for trouble.

I would however accelerate the process with a hair dryer by putting it on low speed and holding it about a foot away for maybe thirty seconds or so. This would greatly reduce the waiting time between coats without causing warping of the model.

If I notice anything different from what is stated above while testing I will pass it along.

I wonder if the paint manufactures don't recommend it because it may not give the paint time to do a molecular bond with the substrate?


Jeff wrote: We could be starting something here Wayne

Could be Jeff! I certainly like what I just read. Seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. I will give it a try and let you know.

Wayne

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This test is using Talc Powder stippled onto the surface.

When I saw these photos up close and personal, I thought WOW, thats way more then I thought I wanted. I will post them anyway, just so everyone can see what happens when you start experimenting.

Patch (B) was the first one I tried, Patch (C) was the second one and Patch (A) was the last one, and the only one where water was added to the paint.


They really do not look as predominate in reality as they do in the photo, but (A) I believe is the best of the lot. Is it what I'm looking for? Well the jury is still out on that one!



I took another photo at a greater angle to try and show the texture better.



Adding the water to the paint did help the entire process. When the talc hits the paint it immediately dries out everything. It just sucks up the moisture. By adding the water, it made the concoction much more workable.

The "Feel" of the surface is perfect. Really a rough surface to the touch. But that's not what I am trying to accomplish. Got some more ideas floating around in my head, so will give them a try next.

Wayne

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This did not take very long to do, so I am posting it right way, as it does pertain to the previous posts.

All I have done to this one is to stipple the surface with a stiff brush with very minute amounts of three different colors of paint, all done individually. I used brown, ivory white, and black.

Oh Great, I've go it in upside down!! Oh well, at least you don't have to be able to read the printing.



I do believe I'm making progress here. Does anyone have anymore ideas to try?

Wayne

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I'm out :) But I like what you've done. That's an interesting tip about the talcum powder, Jeff.

Mike

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Wayne, you are doing the right thing and getting your test panels ready (and giving us all good pointers in the process)- have you gave any further thought to spraying the finish as per the link i gave you in mid-January or have you decided against that?

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Darren, I have not forgotten your advice about spraying, in fact I have a friend here that is trying to get me to do the exact same thing you said. I will give it a try, just have not set a date yet. I am waiting on some items I ordered over the internet to arrive, and waiting on my Dad to arrive. He is due here this afternoon. :D :D :D

Keep your eye on this thread, because it will happen.

Wayne

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Great dedication to the subject Wayne. Thanks for the pictures and descriptions of the process. Invaluable tips and hints to us all.
cheers

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Here is a series of pictures which outlines 5 plus hours of testing. :evil: I had several pictures of failed attempts that I chose not to show on here. Not that they were embarrassing, just were not even close to what I wanted. :oops: :shock: :lol:

This first picture shows the scribe lines that have been painted with black paint. Black paint was not thinned with water. I had tried thinning it, but that did not make the lines dark enough.



In fact after a few hours of testing I figured out that even these lines were not black enough, so another coat of black was applied. The black paint was just brushed over the entire area and then immediately wiped off with a paper towel.
The smudges you see had me concerned for a little while, but as time wore on it became obvious that they just helped give the appearance of weathering, and in most cases completely disappeared.


This shows one of my favorite failures. :evil: This is what I was waiting for to arrive from a purchase off the internet. It is "Z" scale ballast. I am only showing this picture because I wanted to show everyone why this did not work. Once I began putting washes over this, it completely erased the black scribe lines. The surface wasn't real bad, but maybe just a little bit out of scale for the concrete look I needed. I actually found a way to separate the larger specks from the real small ones, but that did not help the main problem of the scribe lines.



The next post will show what I feel is the final design for making styrene plastic look like concrete Silo blocks.

Wayne

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Lessons learned, Don't make these posts so long. I accidently wiped out a half hour of work trying to put in a lot of photos. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: So from now on, shorter posts. :D

Here begins another 5 hours of testing panels. I began with two coats of black paint that were immediately wiped off and were set aside to dry between coats. Using the same formula as I have previously posted, I added more water to it to create a thinner wash than what I have used before. This was necessary because of trying to keep the black scribe line showing through until the end of all the washes. This first picture is a wash with talc powder puffed onto the surface immediately. I found it was important to blow off as much of the talc immediately as possible. The object here is to put a thin coating of talc over the entire surface without thick clumps.



Here is the first wash that went over the talc. I have also added four blocks that were paint with a thinned out burnt umber, as an experiment to add weathering as I went along.



Now the second wash over the talc. You can see how the black scribe lines are slowly disappearing. Even the painted blocks are fading.



After studying the prototype photos more closely, I decided to add more colored blocks, to see how different colors looked under the washes. The brighter colors, to be honest, are just wild guesses, that actually will turn out better than I expected. It did give me a good feeling for what I can and cannot get away with in this regard.



The third wash over the talc is beginning to have the desired look. At this point I truly believed that I had screwed up with the bright colors. :evil:



And the fourth wash over the talc. The black of the scribe lines are now virtually gone!



Since the black lines are now gone, I decided to keep trying to cover those bright blocks with a wash to try and subdue them. Here is the picture that shows the wash applied over just those four blocks.



And here is those four block with another wash over them.



Here is the Prototype photo again for your reference.



I am satisfied with these results, as far as the base concrete colors and texture is concerned. I believe that if I were to move the colored block back down under more layers of the wash it would help. So my next test panel will do just that. I will place the colored block right over the exposed talc, then begin the washes. I would like to limit the washes to four only, as that level seems to have the best view of those scribe lines.

Time to go to bed as I'm the only one still awake in this house! And I still made a long post. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wayne

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Hi Wayne, like you, I think that the fourth wash is giving you the best look and would be my choice.

The reminder picture of the original is a timely post, as one tends to forget how it looks when it's not sat beside the screen :!:

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I'm absolutely with Jeff on this one Wayne - both regarding the 4th wash and with the re-post of the prototype - I'd completely forgotten how "visible" the block joins were. Go for it (if Dad agrees - I seem to remember you said he was coming over !!)

Petermac

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Petermac wrote:I'm absolutely with Jeff on this one Wayne - both regarding the 4th wash and with the re-post of the prototype - I'd completely forgotten how "visible" the block joins were. Go for it (if Dad agrees - I seem to remember you said he was coming over !!)

Petermac


Yep! Dad is here!!!! Mom too! He spent those 10 hours right at my side, trying to help figure out what to do next. Dad seems to think we have it nailed right now. Me too, sort of, anyway.

It is one thing to paint up a flat card, and another to do the same thing on a cylinder!!! So my next testing session will be to make another cylinder the size of the Silo, scribe it (much more sloppily though) and then see how each step reacts to being on a circle instead of flat. For instance, I am not sure I can apply the wash over the entire cylinder at once and put on the talc, before something dries on me. If it dries then the talc won't stick. If too much runs off the talc may not stick. So lots of work still to do. Just remember, it's only one step at a time! That's how you get to the finish line! :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol:

One note here while I'm posting this. I tried painting the wire rings (that go around the outside of the Silo) with burnt umber straight from the bottle. It really looked all rusted up, and didn't seem to enlarge the wire by much. That is another thing I must test, the holes that have been pre-punched, must remain open and visible after all the washes and talc have been installed. Always something!

Wayne

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Wayne - I take my hat off to you - I really do !! To build 1 silo is a magnificent achievement but to build a second - to practice on- is unbelievable !!

Petermac

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Now I'm starting to feel guilty about encouraging you to have a go at scratchbuilding. I shouldn't have done it, Wayne. I'm sorry. :( I know how addictive it is and I knew how easily you'd get hooked. :shock: :lol: :lol:

You really have given this project your all. My suggestion of doing a test piece or two before painting only really meant a dab or two of colour on a couple of scraps of plastikard, but you seem to have taken paint trials to a whole new level. :shock:

The time and care you have taken will pay off. Your model will be truly unique and is something to be really proud of. Well done on a splendid project.

Perry

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Guys, all I'm going to do is take a flat sheet of styrene (same thickness as Silo) and literally throw in scribe lines ( not measured) and wrap it in a circle and bond the edges. Just a tube! Not a Silo! No dome, base, or structure. I just need to practice on the rounded surface with the wash and talc.

I just looked at my time log, I have spent 72 hours to build the Silo, I would not sit down and go through that again! Well, on a different project I would, but not another Silo!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wayne

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Wayne

I think you are almost there with the techniques you are developing. I note how you are losing the black wash in the scribed areas as you apply the texture. Would it be worth painting the surface with your texture and then applying the black wash afterwards? This is the way I do my brickwork, although not as complex as the effect you are attempting. This may achieve the result you seek, although I am not sure how a wash would react to the textured surface. Might be worth a go though?

Bob(K)

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Novice wrote:Wayne

I think you are almost there with the techniques you are developing. I note how you are losing the black wash in the scribed areas as you apply the texture. Would it be worth painting the surface with your texture and then applying the black wash afterwards? This is the way I do my brickwork, although not as complex as the effect you are attempting. This may achieve the result you seek, although I am not sure how a wash would react to the textured surface. Might be worth a go though?

Bob(K)


Bob(K), I will give it a try on one of my test pieces. If that works, you have saved the day. I have just run into a new problem. This problem stems from my inexperience in scratchbuilding. I just found out that I have been testing all of my test pieces using the shinny side of the styrene card. My Silo however, has the dull side on the outside of the Silo. When I made my test cylinder with the dull side out, the first thing I had to do was to add the black paint to fill in the scribe lines. When I did this, I could barely wipe off the black paint from the dull surface. The surface of the styrene is now a medium grey color, not white. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: Plus the black paint did not stay in the scribe lines at all, due to the amount of rubbing I had to do to get the black paint off. :shock: :evil: :twisted: :roll:

I could not come up with any other way to get around this problem, until I read your post here. :D So I will now give it a try. If it doesn't work, I have convinced myself to go forward without using the black paint at all, since as you have said, the black scribe lines are gone anyway. Here's keeping my fingers crossed!!!

Thanks,

Wayne

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Wayne,
I add my black washes after any other paint job and make the wash really, really watery (diluted). The watery wash runs into the grooves of whatever I'm painting and I don't wipe off at all.
The water dries and the black pigment stays in the groove.
If it is too light, I just give it another coat, chasing the wash around with the brush until I've got it into the places I want it.
Might be worth trying.
cheers

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Marty, thats for the tip, but it did not work. The problem was the talc texture, it absorbed the wash big time! Darkened the whole thing! :shock:

I have tried everything to keep the black scribe lines showing, but nothing has worked. So, on with the program, I just will not make them black. I have other duties coming up today and this weekend, (company coming) so I will begin again on Monday. :evil:

Wayne

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Keep at Wayne, dont lose heart - your doing a great job and you will have a Eureka moment I have no doubt and it will all fall into place!!

I have had a further look on the net and dug up a reference to Games Workshop RoughCoat� - Textured Spray - see the link below :

http://www.amera.co.uk/forms/VAC_FORMweb.pdf

Apparently the game workshop spray isnt sold in the US but I have also found the following links :

http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarestore.com/49-266-decorative-spray-paint/american-accents-spray-paint-604289.aspx               Defunct Link   

http://www.craftsetc.com/store/item.aspx?ItemId=41689&dep=50&cat=60&subcat=50&Search=Y

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OK, useful to know that the talc absorbs the wash, should have thought of that one.
I reckon that the silo will look great without the scribe lines highlighted. I can see you are going in the right direction, some of those previous tests really looked the business.
Might have to bite the bullet and accept a compromise as I have had to with my trees.
cheers

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Wayne,

You're going to hate me, but I'm now going to go against just about everything that has been said about the paint finish for the silo. I have looked at the photo of prototype again and at the images of your textured test-pieces, and I'm not convinced that it is the best way to go. Sorry. :(

My reasons for this are:

1. The scribe lines really need to be visible to get the effect shown on the prototype. Anything that obscures them will, I feel, be detrimental to the overall final effect.

2. To my eyes, the texture you are applying still looks too coarse and I think the model would look better by concentrating on the subtlety of the colours and the relief of the scribed lines. There is a lot of minor variation in colour visible on the prototype that would be hard to achieve with the texture finish proposed.

You certainly haven't wasted your time by carrying out the texture experiments as I'm sure that they have provided valuable experience that will be useful in the future, but I would urge you not to use it on this occasion.

I fully appreciate that the final decision is yours and yours alone, but I felt obliged to convey my views to you before that decision is made.

I hope you will accept these comments in the constructive manner in which they are intended and that you will not be offended by them.

Just trying to help! :wink: :D

Perry

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Marty and Perry,

Now there's two different opinions! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yesterday I agreed with Marty, day before with Perry, today ???? :evil: :roll: :D

You won't believe this but while I was reading both of your posts, I had another idea. I do want to be able to see the lines, always have wanted that. So my idea was to use a fine tip ink pen or felt tip pen and redraw over the scribe lines. I happened to have an ink pen, so I just tried it. Worked great! I am drawing over a washed gesso coating, which I believe helped. I now need to test how the ink reacts to the washes. Will try and get to that soon, probably next monday though. Will let you all know what happens.

Thank You Both for your comments. My head is in the clouds, and my butt is scrapping the ground. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wayne

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I reckon it's up to you now mate.
If you can hightlight the scribe lines there is no doubt in my mind that it will enhance the model.
Have fun.

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Monday finally got here and I have made significant progress with figuring out how to paint this Silo. I have nine pictures to show everyone and will post them in three different posts, so I don't lose anything!

This series will show you what I have done to the test cylinder before any concrete color is added. The very top and bottom of this test should be ignored by everyone :shock: Those areas are what is commonly called failed tests. :roll: So the spots to concentrate on are the middle colored and upper colored areas. What I am trying to accomplish with these are the subtle colored blocks of the Silo, using the previously posted prototype picture. The hope is (based upon previous testing) that the colors will become very faded out as the concrete washes are added.

The top two rows of the colors are identical, the next two rows are also identical, but have one extra drop of Ivory White added to the mix of the top two rows.



This picture is showing the right side of the test area where I have tried dabbing on some other colors, just as another type of test. I can see on the prototype picture where a few blocks actually have what looks like green mold or algae on it, so I tried some green paint here also.



And here is a close up of an area where I am trying to fix some errors in applying the black lines with an ink pen. the problem with trying to draw in the lines with an ink pen is staying on the line! The pen slipped in a few spots, so I drew an X over two blocks to see if I could "make it go away" with the washes. In this photo I have already painted over those two blocks with straight white gesso. As you can see it did not do well in covering up the X's.



The next series will be putting on the Talc.

Wayne

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If you post your images like this Wayne with the prototype alongside we can see much better how you are getting on. I know this is going to cause a bit of scrolling for some of us but I do think it is worthwhile for your model because you are putting so much time and effort into it. Looking at the prototype as it is shown here is this the colour you are after or was the picture taken on a dark day and the colour is in fact much lighter than shown. Just a thought.



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During a trip out to the model railway shop I found a product called "Road System Top Coat Concrete ST1454" by Woodland Scenics. Just could not resist buying it. When I used it next to the formula that I had previously come up with it matched perfectly!!!!!! Go figure! Never ever will that happen again.

The process of adding the Talc is as follows. Using the new concrete paint and thinning it with lots of water, I brushed it all over the cylinder and immediately literally threw on the Talc, lots of Talc. This was done outside to prevent cleaning up the mess. Once the entire cylinder was covered with talc I immediately shook off all that I could, then started blowing off everything else. I had to get the clumps off but not the fine powder or the wash itself. What was left on took a good hour to completely dry. The drying turned the whole thing white. It does however dramatically tone down those painted blocks, as you can see.




It is interesting how those speckled blocks are looking. They MAY work out just fine, only time will tell though.



This close up shows the two blocks with the X in them. You may notice that I have covered the second X'd out block with straight concrete paint. You can still see the X through it though.



You can still see the black lines with no problem, but I wonder for how long?

Wayne

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Could you have a look at my post to you on the previous page Wayne. If it's no help I will get rid of it and this one.

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Hey bob I like that, only how did you do it?

Wayne

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Post the first image as normal and then the next one right next to it. If you are going to do it then please don't increase the width of the images any more that they are now else I will get shouted at. :cry:

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This is the first wash over the Talc, it's really the second wash as the talc was put into the first wash.
The second wash has helped change the color quite nicely. The bright colors are fading, but not enough yet.



This shows those speckled blocks again. Better but still to dominate.



And a close up of those X'd out blocks. You can still see the X's! the black lines are doing fine, but are fading somewhat.




I have decided to make the next wash from my formula instead of the newly purchased concrete. By doing that I can adjust the color a little more to my liking.

Wayne

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Now here is the same three pictures of the test Silo after the third concrete wash. The bright red blocks are Out, way too bright for my taste, but the remaining ones are looking good to me. In the third picture you can still see the big X!!! Just doesn't want to go away.





Fourth wash coming up next!

Wayne

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This series of three pictures shows the test Silo after the fourth concrete wash. Looks like my hands were shaking when I took that second photo. :evil: In the close up photo you can see that the big X is now gone, finally. It took four washes to cover up the black ink X!






In the last picture I have drawn in the upper area the outlines of several of the blocks using a fine tipped pencil. I am concerned that the blocks outlines are faded too much. So I am going to keep going only to find out how many washes it takes to cover those pencil lines just enough to look natural. Once I know how many it takes I will insert the pencil lines in between the appropriate steps when painting the actual Silo.

This, in my opinion, is where I intend to stop putting on washes. At this point I will be done, on the actual model!

Here is a photo of those pencil lines after the fifth wash. This is now one wash over the pencil lines.


I think the lines are still too dominate, so one more wash over them to see if two coats will suffice.

Wayne

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Looking good and even excellent. Look forward to when its all done and it is in situ on the layout, will look awesome.
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phill wrote:Look forward to when its all done and it is in situ on the layout.
Phill


Thanks Phill, ME TOO!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Here is the final test shot. This shows the pencils lines with two concrete washes over them, and I like it! I was surprised that the pencil lines did not wash out or run when the thinned concrete wash was applied.



Well now, after two weeks of testing and doing a lot of learning, I am ready to apply the paint to the Silo. Here is the painting schedule.

1. Wash Silo with soap and water, allow to completely dry.

2. Apply white gesso thinned with water over the entire surface. The white gesso is thinned to about a 50/50 mix. Allow to completely dry.

3. Paint all the chosen blocks with colored paints as tested. I will chose which blocks to paint what color based upon the prototype pictures. All colors were mixed with Ivory White 50/50. Allow to completely dry.

4. Decide which blocks needs "Dabbing" (speckled) get that done. Allow to completely dry.

5. Wash the silo with thinned concrete and immediately add the Talc, blow off all excess Talc immediately. Allow to completely dry.

6. Draw in with a fine tipped pencil all scribe lines.

7. Wash entire Silo with thinned concrete. Allow to completely dry.

8. Wash entire Silo with thinned concrete. Allow to completely dry.

And as they say, that's that!

I intend to start the actual Silo this Friday. After all these photos, is anyone still interested is seeing step by step photos of the actual Silo? If so, then I will do it. Just let me know.

If I have missed a step or something, nows the time to speak up!

Wayne

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Wayne, fotos of the step by step on the actual model if possible please :?:

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I think photos are an absolute must, Wayne.
I've learned so much by watching your experiments that it would be a let down not to follow it through now :!:

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Well done, Wayne! Don't stop the photos now, please.

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OK guys, you'll get your pictures! Just thought you might be tired of seeing paint dry. :shock: :shock: :shock: :roll:

Wayne :lol: :lol: :lol:

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:lol: :lol: :lol: I think I've spent half my life doing that. I can go another week :D

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I am SICK of testing!!!! :shock: :roll: :wink: :D

So here is a picture of the REAL thing, finally!!!



(Sure hope that is not too wide Bob)

The above pictures has thinned white gesso as a first coat. All the chosen colors from the testing have been applied. I tried, at first, to follow the prototype picture, but that soon became almost impossible to keep doing. For one thing most if not all the colored blocks occur on the North half of the Silo. The Southern half is bleached from the sun. I have decided that since I do not have a sun position on my layout, I liked the Northern half, so I have painted the colors all around. You can see very well all of the smudges that have been added to help make the whole thing look 60 plus years old. I would think that 97% of those will disappear after the next washes are applied. (I sure hope so anyway).



In this set of photos one wash has been added over the Talc and I have painstakingly redrawn all of the scribe lines with a mechanical pencil. :evil:
The next wash will be a little thinner than this one. My hope is to hide some more of the scribe lines without covering up too much more of the colored blocks.

As far as the testing goes, this next wash should be the last one. If however, I am not satisfied with the results, I can, carefully go over individual blocks with another wash to help tone them down some. I have decided not to hurry this through to get it done by this evening. I will let things dry thoroughly before the next wash.

Wayne

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Wayne that is really coming together, the effort in developing the finish is really coming through.

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darrenscots wrote:Wayne that is really coming together, the effort in developing the finish is really coming through.

Thanks Darren! I can tell you this, the picture doesn't do it justice. It looks so good right now that I am hesitant about the last wash. The block colors are near perfect, but the lines are a tad bit too dark.

I am also beginning to think about painting the remaining components now.

Wayne

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Wayne

take it outside in the daytime obviously and photo graph it outside i have found that things seem to look more as they really are in a photo than taking a photo indoors with flashes and unnatuaral light

cheers Brian.W

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henryparrot wrote:Wayne

take it outside in the daytime obviously and photo graph it outside i have found that things seem to look more as they really are in a photo than taking a photo indoors with flashes and unnatuaral light

cheers Brian.W


OK Brian, I will give that a try. All of my photos were taken without a flash and the ones with a black background were under an OTT light. Supposed to be a natural light, they say!

Wayne

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Now the fourth wash begins, which is the second wash over the pencil lines. I have watered the fourth wash down more than the other three, just in case. I am glad I did too, because there are ares on here that look just fine and another wash would hide too much. In the right hand picture you can see that the lines are more vivid for the seven columns over from the climbing tower. Not sure why this happened, but I intend to fix it with another wash just over them.




In the above picture you can see some bright blocks. I will (after this dries some more) go over them individually to soften them up to match the rest of the colored blocks.

I believe the reason why there are certain blocks that are holding their color is because of the Talc. My best guess is that the Talc did not cover those blocks like it did the rest of them. The talc was the major layer that dulled down the colored blocks.

Hopefully, tomorrow will be the final touches on the Silo itself. The dome will be the next item tackled. I am currently testing some grey and silver colors and rusting them up some, to see which I like the best. Here's hoping it doesn't take as long as the cylinder did!!!!

All in all, I am tickled "Pink" with this, and can't wait till I can begin putting on the rings and steps.

Wayne

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Wayne, keep at it - you are getting there.

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You have it beaten, Wayne. Hats off to you. The surface finish looks suitably dull too.

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The validity of your extensive testing is shown in the final shot you show of the real thing.
That's the best of the lot :!: :!:

Now the long testing process has paid dividends, well done Wayne. :!:

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I am still avidly following this thread, Wayne, even though I haven't commented much recently. I don't think there's too much that I could add to that which has been said already.

I am looking forward to seeing it finished though. I'm sure I will have a few comments to make then. :wink:

Very well done so far. :D

Perry

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Thanks again for all the nice comments everyone! I am currently beginning some small test panels for painting the Dome. I have decided on a silver colored Dome with probably lots of Rust!

I too, am getting excited to see the finished product. I keep holding myself back from beginning the rings and steps, just to make sure I have thought of everything before starting them. I have done rust testing on the thin wire, and it came out looking great, especially when I put a light concrete wash over the rusted wire. It gave the wire a washed out oxidized look, for lack of better words.

Making all the rings and steps and getting them painted is going to be a tedious time consuming job. So everyone please bear with me as I enter this phase of the model. My gut feeling is, the steps and rings are really going to set it off!

Wayne

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I have finally begun painting the Dome and the structures roof with a galvanized looking paint. I believe it was called "Silver Anniversary". :roll: I don't know who named it, but it was the closest thing I could find to a galvanized color.



This is my first ever attempt at rusting up something. All I can say is, well it was an experience. Thought I would show you what you should not do! :evil:



In this picture you can see where I have begun installing the rings. I had hoped that I could put on all the rings without installing the 2 attachment clips, but that did not work so well. Every time I picked up the Silo, I would move the rings around with my fingers and disturb the paint on them. So I must now stop and make up all the attachments and get them painted before proceeding further. Here is where I am currently at with the Silo.



Next up is to build and paint the attachment clips and then install the remaining rings. I may have to do some adjustments where the structure walls touches the Silo. The rings are taking up space that was not on my "To Do List" :evil: :evil: :evil:

Wayne

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Wayne, that really does look superb!!

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OK, so if my head wasn't attached I'd forget it somewhere. I forgot to post the final Dome picture of the second (and last) rusty wash, so here it is.



Is it missing "Something?"

Wayne

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Well that there Dome looks the Bizz to me Wayne. Well done mate.
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Well Wayne

I think I am in the process of eating my hat. I did not think the textured effect would work at all well, but looking at the pictures, your silo looks super. The dome is coming on nicely too. Well done, it's great to see how different people approach this hobby of ours.

Bob(K)

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Just one question Wayne.
On the picture of the near completed structure, the building looks quite different in finish to the silo. Newer and cleaner. Is this correct to the prototype :?: I seem to remember that was how the original looked.

If so, I think that you have done a magnificent job, but for use on a layout, I would be tempted to weather the shed slightly more so that it doesn't stand out so much.

Just a thought, it may be different live, the camera is not always accurate :!:

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Jeff, yes looking at the first post by Wayne, it looks as if the building is a replacement for one that may have got damaged or it just got re-painted - they do that sometimes I believe :wink:

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Jeff & Sol,
To answer Jeff's question, Sol is right! In fact this structure was completely rebuilt in the summer of 2006. New windows, door, paint, roof seal, the whole works. So it still looks new and shiny.

Now for the practical side of this question. I am beginning to think that you are right Jeff, I need to tone it down a bit for the layout. Rust up the roof some and do a black wash on the white walls. Does that sound right?

Novice (Bob(K))
I just felt that for concrete to look like concrete, it had to be somewhat rough looking. The Talc worked super, but I did have to blow off just as much as I could get to come off by blowing hard on it, otherwise even the Talc was too course.
Oh, and don't feel bad, I have eaten my share of hat's too! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wayne

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I have been thinking on how to do this black wash. One question I have is, what do I do with the windows? Won't the black wash stain them?

Wayne

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Wayne Williams wrote:I have been thinking on how to do this black wash. One question I have is, what do I do with the windows? Won't the black wash stain them?

Wayne


Wayne

Yes is the answer. If you use acrylics, the paint will tend to run to the edges of the window panes, but there will be little blobs left which will dry as black smears. You have time to pick these off with a dry brush, or tissue before they dry though.

With enamels it is more tricky and before doing anything I would check to see what effect thinners/white spirit, or whatever you use for making the wash, has on the clear plastic. Try it out on a piece of scrap. Some thinners act like a solvent and will turn clear plastic cloudy. If you do use enamels take great care around the windows. You could consider masking them, but again check on the effect by using a piece of scrap first.

From my experience I prefer acrylic paint it is much more permissive and should you not like the effect - you can just wash it off with water.

Bob(K)

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Wayne Williams wrote:I have been thinking on how to do this black wash. One question I have is, what do I do with the windows? Won't the black wash stain them?

Wayne


If you look in our index under 'M', there is a link about some masking fluid called 'Maskol'. That, or a similar product, could easily be used to protect your windows.

Perry

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Wayne, what you propose for the building sounds about right, a thin black wash will work wonders.
I'd definitely use acrylics for this and either use maskol or a dry brush to ensure the windows remain clear.
As always, several very thin washes, with drying in between, will give you much more control over the right time to quit than trying to do it in one go :!:

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Gwent Rail wrote:Wayne, what you propose for the building sounds about right, a thin black wash will work wonders.
I'd definitely use acrylics for this and either use maskol or a dry brush to ensure the windows remain clear.
As always, several very thin washes, with drying in between, will give you much more control over the right time to quit than trying to do it in one go :!:


The only "formula" I can find to mix up the wash is "One drop paint to 32 drops of water". Does that sound about right? It looks awfully dark to me.

Wane

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If this is going on the model proper Wayne and you have any doubt at all then thin the paint a lot more. There will be very little pigment to hide detail and at least then you will have a good idea of which way you need to go.

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Wayne, 1: 32 seems good to me, but a test piece may be in order :!:
You may even find that 1:32 is too weak, but that's a lot better than the other way around :!: :!:

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I think it might be a good idea to pre-wet the surface, either by brushing or fine misting with a spray bottle. Apologies if I mentioned this before - I can't remember.


Mike

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I have just finished dry brushing my Silo with a mix of two drops of black acrylic paint and one drop of country grey. The areas just below every step, if you look at the prototype, are very dark looking, probably from mold, rust, whatever.

I also have rusted up the structures roof with burnt umber (1 drop) and 32 drops of water. The structure (white areas & concrete blocks) has been washed with black acrylic paint (1 drop) and 50 drops of water.



I now have all my attachment clips made and painted to attach the rings as they are installed.

Wayne

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MikeC wrote:I think it might be a good idea to pre-wet the surface, either by brushing or fine misting with a spray bottle. Apologies if I mentioned this before - I can't remember. Mike

I don't remember reading that one Mike, but I think it would have been wise to do it. I had trouble getting the wash to run down the surface, it just wanted to set there and do nothing. I will try it on my next project, if I can remember it! :shock:

Wayne

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It looks marvellous anyway!

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Wayne that as turned out really good,all paid off in the end.
by the way how did you do the split photo that is something i would like to try

:oops: :? :lol: :lol: 8)

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Wayne

I think all the accolades have been stated, but I have to say you have done a first class job. Have you considered how this building is going to be incorporated into a layout? I know you are creating a series of related structures on the farm, but will these just be scenery items or do you plan to have a railway siding or something connected to the scene? More importantly any ideas as to when you might begin on a layout?

Bob(K)

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Owen,
When you paste in your url of the first picture do not hit the enter key afterwards, just paste the next pictures url right after the first one and it will put them side by side. CAUTION, lest the moderators attack, :shock: make sure the width of both pictures are narrow enough to not exceed the 680 pixel width for pictures on screens. I do this by turning my camera 90 degrees to take the pictures, so far everyone seems to let me do it that way. The two above photos however were cropped to make them narrower than simply rotating the camera.

Wayne

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Novice wrote:Wayne

I think all the accolades have been stated, but I have to say you have done a first class job. Have you considered how this building is going to be incorporated into a layout? I know you are creating a series of related structures on the farm, but will these just be scenery items or do you plan to have a railway siding or something connected to the scene? More importantly any ideas as to when you might begin on a layout? Bob(K)


I have been doing a lot of thinking on how to incorporate the farm scene into my layout design. There are no trains around my grandson's farm, so I will probably just place it somewhere in the middle of the layout as far away from the trains as I can. The overall size of the farm will be around 12" x 18" so it should not be too hard to do. Even if a track goes by adjacent to the farm, I really don't care too much, after all "It's My World" we are talking about here. :roll: :lol:

When do I begin my layout? Well the way it is looking right now with spring just around the corner and our annual trek back up north for the summer months, it is looking like sometime this fall. I would like to have all the scratchbuilt structures done of the farm scene by then, because all of my time will be spent on here asking you guys how to build my baseboards. :shock: :roll: :lol:

Just a note:
Down the street from me there is a house (don't know them yet) that the lady of the house is having two guys build her a layout in O gauge, in her garage. (neighborhood gossip) This looks like about 12' x maybe 16' is size. So far I have only looked in as I walk by. There are some interesting things that they are doing that I will try and see better and maybe post for comments.

Wayne

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Wayne Williams wrote:
Just a note:
Down the street from me there is a house (don't know them yet) that the lady of the house is having two guys build her a layout in O gauge, in her garage. (neighborhood gossip) This looks like about 12' x maybe 16' is size. So far I have only looked in as I walk by. There are some interesting things that they are doing that I will try and see better and maybe post for comments.

Wayne


Wayne, I suggest unless you want to get involved in helping to build another layout while you are still involved with yours, don't offer any guidance - I did that with some friends on the Exhibition layout about some wiring & got stuck being the electrician for about 5 years.

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:shock: :shock: :shock: 5 Years!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

I will keep my mouth shut! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wonder about this lady myself, she has hired two gentlemen to build the layout. It doesn't appear that she wants to build anything herself. They are laying the track, building bridges, etc. From what I hear around the neighborhood, she just wants to "Run The Train".

Based upon that comment, I will heed your advice!

Thanks,
Wayne

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Between running errands and going down to see our grand-daughter, I was able to install most of the rings and all of the steps on the Silo. I still need to put on the rings around the climbing tower, but they cannot go on until I am positively positive that I no longer need to disassemble the Silo. Once they go on, the only removable pieces will be the roof to the Structure, Dome and the Silo's base. Enough babbling, here's the pictures.



I need to find some lighter rust colored paint. The Burnt Umber is just too dark for the rust that is running down the Silo under the steps and rings. I'm thinking maybe "Raw Umber", but will make my decision at the store.

What's left?

1. Rust weathering on the Silo
2. Rings around the climbing tower. (Rings are already made and painted)

Wayne

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Coming on well, Wayne

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Very nice Wayne, well done.
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Yup... nice.

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Here is the final Photo of the Silo. I have completed all the rings, and weathering. Since I do not have a layout, I tried to come up with a way to take a picture that showed some kind of background scenery. After a search through my pictures on the computer I found one taken up in West Virginia in the Blue Ridge Mountains, so I put it on my desktop and placed the Silo in front of the computer and snapped the photo.

For any who are interested:

76 Hours to build the Silo
38 Hours of paint testing
21 Hours weathering and final assembly
Total Hours = 135

I have throughly enjoyed doing this project, and I would like to thank everyone who helped me get past those spots that can give a person a big headache.

The Silo will now get set up on a shelf somewhere until my diorama is ready for it. Hopefully that won't be too long.

Wayne :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sol
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Very well done Wayne, it should be the photograph of the week.

Just imagine if someone came to you to build it for their layout :-
135 hours ar $X per hour :!:

henryparrot
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Simply superb Wayne a great credit to you and i for one have totally enjoyed watching your progress with this project.
A great model you will always cherish


cheers Brian.W

phill
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That is awesone Wayne, truly AWSOME. Just one question and by no way picking but what are those 4 rungs for next to the main runs?.
Phill

Paul Williams
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Congratulations Wayne on a job well done. Looks like the real silo.
I am going to vote this silo picture for picture of the week.

Paul W.

Gwent Rail
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Simply superb :!:
You should be very pleased and not a little proud of the completed job.
Very well done :!: :!:

Wayne Williams
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phill wrote:That is awesone Wayne, truly AWSOME. Just one question and by no way picking but what are those 4 rungs for next to the main runs?.
Phill


The prototype has those four rungs on it, for a reason I am not completely sure of. The grandkids Silo has no Dome, but it does have a platform at the top where you can climb up the steps and stand in it. Those four rungs adjacent to it can be reached with one of your feet, if you are so inclined. Personally I would never attempt it, but maybe a "Farmer" would! :roll:

Wayne

Bob K
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Wayne

That really is a superb piece of modelling. Many congratulations on the end result.

Bob(K)

Perry
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Absolutely magnificent, Wayne! I am truly impressed. :)

The only trouble now is that you have set yourself a high baseline below which none of your future models can fall. :? :lol: Still, that can only be a good thing, I guess. :wink:

This model really does show how versatile plastikard is as a modelling material.

Very well done! 8) 8) 8)

Perry

Wayne Williams
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Perry wrote:The only trouble now is that you have set yourself a high baseline below which none of your future models can fall. Perry

Well you are right in that regard! :evil: :lol: But, you know I started this with the intention of the hobby taking the rest of my life to work on. I am in no particular hurry to get any one thing finished, so I guess that baseline, like you have said, "has been set"! :shock: :roll: :smile: [size=9]Actually I like it like that!

Thanks for the comments everyone!

This has really been fun!

Wayne

Next up, "The Barn!"


                 

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