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Making trams from card or paper - Trams. - Other Areas. - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Mon Aug 26th, 2013 02:06 pm
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Spurno
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The Bankie wrote: Hi Spurno/Alan (don't know which you prefer)
The images are from an out of print book "The British Tram" dated 1963, cover price 5/-. The author is Frank E Wilson and publisher Percival Marshal now acquired by MAP but no longer in their catalogue.
Mr Wilson did not record any copyright details and as he was born in 1905 I do not believe I, or YMR, to be infringing his copyright.
Obviously if you think there is a problem I will happily remove the pictures.
Sorry for the hiccough.
Regards
Jim.


Hi Jim,i hope you wasn't offended by my asking but when i took over from Bob one of the things i became aware of was copywrite so i have to be carefull and without the information above i couldn't be sure.



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 Posted: Mon Aug 26th, 2013 04:29 pm
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Hi Alan
Not offended in the least. Had a few copyright arguments myself but as webmaster you need to be extra careful. As a user I need to stick to your rules. So what is your decision, do the pics stay or, go?
Look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Jim.



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 Posted: Mon Aug 26th, 2013 04:40 pm
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Hi Jim they're ok.Carry on.:thumbs



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 Posted: Mon Aug 26th, 2013 05:03 pm
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Thanks for the info re the bows Jim - hope you had a good day at Crich.

The Mark Hughes offering looks good and I've been told it's probably the best on the market.  Never having seen one "in the flesh", does it come ready bent to shape or just as a piece of wire ...............? :roll:



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 Posted: Tue Aug 27th, 2013 12:22 pm
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Hi Peter
It's an etched brass kit, but there are only three main components. The Base, the Bow and the Spring. You fold the base up in three places at each end to form a pocket for the spring ends and the bow is a mirror image of a bow which you simply fold over and solder for strength. It's so simple it borders on genius. I'll be getting some more of these and I will photograph the build. Not so much an idiots guide, as a guide to how an idiot did it.
Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Tue Aug 27th, 2013 06:01 pm
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I'll be watching Jim. :thumbs:thumbs

I'd already decided these are the bows I'll use when I start motorising my EFE trams - with Halling motors. :thumbs



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 Posted: Wed Aug 28th, 2013 08:52 am
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Peter,
What are the dimensions of the Halling motors, and are they just motors or full bogies? I need something to fit under this but it's
an open car with no space to hide an intrusive bogie.


Also this is the picture I was looking for about the Mark Hughes bow kits. Apart from the instruction leaflet this is the entire kit.


and that's in the picture as well as it's the sheet the bits are sitting on.

Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Wed Aug 28th, 2013 11:00 am
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Thanks for the shot of the Mark Hughes kit Jim.  Looks good. :thumbs

Halling makes a pretty big range of motor bogies.  I think I've got a couple of the KSW type for my EFE Leeds trams - not fitted as yet ........:cry::cry:

They're much better quality motors than the old BEC type but don't have any means of fixing them to the tram body.  I've seen a metal plate glued to the body and the motor magnet simply "snaps" onto that.  Also, a "grab" made out of plasticard that clips around the front and rear of the motor.

Not cheap but have a look at his site - it's quite interesting:
 
http://www.halling.at/en/Accessories/Drives



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 Posted: Wed Aug 28th, 2013 01:36 pm
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Very interesting Peter.
That is going into Bookmarks
It still looks like they will intrude into the lower saloon. However it will take me a while to dig out the info I need as there is no translation on the data pages.
Mind you that's probably better than the data from these guys, TOO much.

http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=10&cat=BullAnt+Drive+Mechanisms


Thanks
Jim



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 Posted: Wed Aug 28th, 2013 04:24 pm
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I didn't check his site through the link I posted Jim but he used to publish drawings with all measurements on them on his website. :roll::roll:

I've only got a couple of the motors but I'll buy more when I get round to doing the tram circuit (and some Mark Hughes bows .........;-))  I found the BEC type motors to be real pigs at anything less than flat out .............:???:



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 Posted: Thu Aug 29th, 2013 06:14 am
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Peter
You said
I found the BEC type motors to be real pigs at anything less than flat out .............:???:True, and even then if you have two hitched to a bogie tram one runs faster than the other and you end up with the bogies tipping into the centre of the tram and stopping it that way so you need to run flat out and the weight of a white metal kit to keep it flat.
Mind you, "flat out" is not exactly HS2 performance.

Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Thu Aug 29th, 2013 08:32 am
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Some of the bigger Halling motors are supposed to be real beauties Jim - flywheels included - the problem is, they're too big for my Horsfields although, with a bit of hiding and hacking, I'm told they can be made to fit the Feltham ..............:hmm



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 Posted: Thu Aug 29th, 2013 12:39 pm
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Peter,
Well, Leeds did use Felthams and you can get kits, but since this is the card model thread,THIS is out there somewhere although I can't vouch for its scale. As far as I can make out it was a giveaway from the "News of the World" so there should be no copywrite problems but just to be on the safe side I have printed it, added the front of a Glasgow tram, half sized it and scanned it in so that it's my picture. Ive got the drawings for a "Feltham" so I will rescale it.



Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Sun Sep 1st, 2013 02:41 pm
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Hi Peter
Got to thinking, always dangerous:mrgreen:, about the justification for running "guest" trams on a layout intended to represent a specific system and realised that I was thinking about it the wrong way round. What trams will NOT look out of place on any system?
Permanent way or other works cars! So you can put, for example, a model of the cable laying Glasgow car on your proposed Leeds layout and it will look fine. I might even be able to cobble one up using some of my "standards" bits and some Scalescenes planking.

Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Sun Sep 15th, 2013 11:05 am
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Hi Guys
Just spent an instructional afternoon with the Bachmann Hong Kong tram as a prelude to fitting the bow for overhead collection.
To be honest I've fitted the bow but not connected it up yet [waiting for the glue holding the wiring from the bow to set before I start messing with the wiring harness]. I have learned that putting nuts onto 1mm screws on the internal roof of a double decked tram in 4mm scale is not easy as my fingers do not reach to the screws. A bit of 3mm OD brass tube works as a long socket spanner.
The pic below shows the motor under the tram and it seems to be only about 8mm thick so it will fit under my Glasgow standards. As made it has an 8 foot wheelbase so will go under a round dash car "as is" and only needs to have the wheelbase shortened to fit the hex dash cars.

I have also discovered that it will be reasonably easy to switch to overhead as all you need to do is desolder the red wire in the pic from the pickups and connect it to the bow. To complete the transformation to two rail and overhead you need to solder a lead from the original fixing point and connect it to the pickups on the other side. Doing it this way saves messing about with the rest of the wiring loom.



As you can almost see here there are a couple of resistors in the circuit and I still have not discovered if they are to protect the LEDs or reduce the voltage to 6volts as I don't know if this is a 6 or 12 volt motor..
On the subject of pickups removing the motor and wheels and bending the pickups out a little improves the running qualities no end. Right now the tram is trundling round Proven Mill on it's running in period. I have still got the bodywork off to allow me to finish the modifications and it's wandering round and round like a double deck toastrack.

Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Mon Sep 16th, 2013 12:27 pm
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Today I inquired of Bachmann regarding motors for my trams.
Reproduced below is their reply.
Thank you for your enquiry. Unfortunately we are unable to help you on this occasion. Whilst we have limited spare parts provided to us for the support of our models after purchase: we don't have them to supply for other modelling uses. Regards Service Team Bachmann Europe plc
Now call me Mr Cynical but this looks like the alternative and polite version of "Sod off, You're not a dealer and so you're of no interest to us.". So it looks like I need to investigate sensible alternatives and customer focused companies.
I'll let you know how I get on.

Regards
Jim



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 Posted: Mon Sep 16th, 2013 12:35 pm
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Good luck Jim.They just don't realise the positive PR they could have got for nothing if they had just supplied you with a few motors.



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 Posted: Tue Sep 17th, 2013 06:53 am
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Hi again
Well the conversion to a bow collector has worked extremely well and the Hong Kong Tram now runs on live overhead and twin rail return. Right now it is hampered by the state of the overhead in the picture. Despite this the tram got to where it is under its own power and with no assistance, the sett car was only plonked on the track as window dressing. No it's not very far but it was a successful test.


Later it even managed to reverse under the slack wire. Concerning bow collectors and reversing I got an email from Andy Bailey, one of the fitters at Crich, who was kind enough to assist me when he caught me sneaking round the workshops and who expressed an interest in 00 tramways.
Here is what he said,
Jim, Regards the bows you mentioned, the only place I can think of that turned bows in Britain would probably be Sheerness who used Siemens equipment which was unobtainable during WW1 and led to the tramway closing in 1917. hope this helps
Andy
So there we go, info from someone in the know.

The second picture just about shows the bow and the new poles and one of the Mark Hughes hangers I am installing on Proven Mill. Installation will continue when I get some more 4mm OD tube to make the different thickness pole bases.

I'll keep putting on progress reports but this is NOT my personal thread:shock::shock: so how about a bit of company on here?:lol:

Regards
Jim    



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 Posted: Tue Sep 17th, 2013 04:47 pm
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Hi Jim and Peter, trams aren't my thing but I bought a static model of a San Francisco cable car when over there a few years ago. To motorise it I used a couple of motor bogies, in parallel, courtesy of Bachmann's Underground Ernie. They were selling them off very cheap at the time as the concept hadn't taken off. Wheel centres = 25mm, very smooth and quite powerful. Wheel diameters about 10 mm, difficult to be sure as they are hidden behind a very crude bogie. Height from track to the fixing plate above the motor = 24mm. Might intrude too much into the tram for your needs perhaps. I'll try and take a photo. You might still find some hanging around. They have a fixing plate above the motor. A cheap solution, if you can find any. Might paint mine Bradford Blue!
:cheers



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 Posted: Wed Sep 18th, 2013 06:00 am
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Hi Pat
Nice to see you visiting our thread :).
Wahiba/David has already said that he uses these bogies as tram motors but there are a couple of snags.

1) Underground Ernie is discontinued.
2) It was a Bachmann product and whilst the products are good the company are not exactly customer friendly. Underground Ernie is a discontinued line and they don't even admit to issuing it as I found out when I inquired about spares.
3) My working clearance at the moment is 9 mm to the track top so currently I am inquiring about Nigel Lawton motors.
4) at correct scale sizes my maximum wheelbase on a bogie is 20 mm.

Wahiba uses models with opaque windows so the height question does not arise (OUCH dud unintentional pun :oops:) for him. You can motorise the trolleybus or tram using one but today you need to find one. I CAN possibly use them as the truck on the standard trams if I alter the wheelbase and put 9 mm wheels on it.
The same goes for the Hong Kong trams although the situation is a little better there as they have a scale 8 foot (32 mm) wheelbase which will fit under a round dash Standard with only the wheels replaced with 9 mm ones.

So can I add a plea to this post for any unwanted Hong Kong Trams? The models are quite good so I am loth to rip them apart simply for the motor and gearbox. Obviously financial compensation will be offered. 

Regads
Jim



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