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Plotter Cutter Tests - On Members Workbenches. - More Practical Help - Your Model Railway Club
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 Posted: Sat Apr 27th, 2013 09:44 pm
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Dorsetmike
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Finally got round to swapping out the pen for the blade, threw together some rectangles and triangles to knock up a small hall that could serve as a staff club/canteen or small village hall, I printed out an A4 sheet of planking texture, which I had coloured to look like faded creosote, sort of dirty dark grey onto some medium card; did a quick check with the pen on paper to sort out my blade origin then card on mat, into the Zing and away it went, a couple of false starts, not cutting deep enough, then too deep. Finally got it right, good job I had a few sheets of the card printed but were not quite the colour I wanted, they were the guinea pigs.

I decided from the start that I would cut a full sheet, to save wasting too much card, so I had 7 small hall/big hut shells  on the sheet, I also did a mirror image and printed out a sheet of plain cream for the interior  which had to be a mirror image.

A couple of queries as a result of my efforts, when the blade was cutting what seems to me about right, it is lightly scoring the mat, if I back off the blade a bit it doesn't make a cut right through the card, is the scoring the mat normal? or do I have to make my adjustments much finer, I'm doing probably less than a quarter turn at a time.

Second Q, how often should the mat need a wash? say  in terms of number of sheets cut.

Third Q, It appears that it cuts less deep close to the edge (an inch or two) on the right hand side of a sheet than the rest of the sheet, I needed to make a few cuts with a craft knife to release the item, elsewhere on the card no problem.



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 Posted: Sun Apr 28th, 2013 08:16 pm
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Dorsetmike
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I've just been browsing through the ZIng Manual PDF, being an American product most of the material descriptions refer to American products, so far no British, European or Asian equivalents appear. This led me to hunt for a conversion table for Lbs>gsm and the reverse, it would appear that for the weight/thickness range we are likely to use the conversion factor is approximately 1.5 (1.48 to be pedantic) so USA paper lbs x 1.5 gives grams per sq metre, divide by 1.5 to get lbs from gsm.
This would appear to cover up to about 200gsm/133lbs, what those on 'tother side of the pond would term text atock, above that they call it cover stock for which the conversion factor is 2.7. and that takes you way beyond the Zing capabilities to around 1000gsm plus.

Washed my mat last evening and it appears to have lost stickiness, sounds like I have to get out the spray adhesive, but just in case all else fails I've ordered a pair of mats, spare red and blue blades and springs, and an engraving tool. At least a non sticky mat then should not bring operations to a halt.

In the meantime I've been slaving away over a hot photo app and MTC working on the small hall/big shed practice piece. The plan is a one piece fold up outer wall with door and window cut outs, behind which will be a piece with doors and window frames, then a transparent one for the windows, finally an interior wall, I have noted the de-lamination problems discussed earlier in this topic, so intend to cut the inner pieces where the corners are. As I am only using fairly light card I will usea couple of pieces of 3mm foam board for floor and ceiling and maybe sone plastic angle at the corners. Roofing will be plasticard, either tiles or corrugated. As I will have a number of "hut shells" I'm varying the stock  for each "practice" cut, so I so far have 3 sheets of different coloured planking, two of diferent colour brick, and one of stone - door and window frames a few sheets of different colours, ditto interior walls, I should add that each sheet has 7 buildings so I should be able to supply the lads at the area group, and donate a few to the group layout. I just hope they will go together as intended!

Doors and windows layer, the doors and windows were scanned from another building, I'm gradually building up a library of "spare parts" for buildings. The openings in the outer wall layer are not as big as the doors and windows, the extra width of which was so I could glue them behind a wall as some Metcalfe kits do, I can easily copy/paste them and change colour easily with a fill tool.





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 Posted: Sun Apr 28th, 2013 09:04 pm
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ddolfelin
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Good job!



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 Posted: Mon Apr 29th, 2013 09:40 am
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Brookwood
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Hi Mike
 
My mat is covered in score marks, as long as you don’t actually cut through the mat I don’t think it matters. You are never going to get it exactly right. The cardstock varies in texture so much. I have usually found that you need more blade projection than you would think.
 
When I have tried to get it exactly right by measuring the blade up against the material I find it is usually not enough.
 
You will need to clean your mat regularly but it depends hugely on the type of card you are cutting. I’m cutting some fairly thick fibre board at the moment and is leaves a lot of fibre stuck to the mat. I usually scrape off as much as I can manually. With clean card and thin card and paper you shouldn’t have as much of a problem.
 
Washing the mat gets rid of some of the muck so it is a good idea but spare mats are also a good idea. So far I haven’t had to start a new mat; I’m still using the old one. So you don’t really need to clean the mat until you get a build up of muck that is stopping it from feeling sticky. I use a small stiff nail brush under a running tap. But so far I’ve only done it once.
 
I do keep a can of spray adhesive handy. The kind that is temporary. I forget what it’s called but you probably know the stuff. A quick spray when the mat stops feeling sticky helps a lot.
 
The cutting near the edge problem might be to do with the stickiness of the mat and the card going up and down with the knife. Instead of increasing the depth of cut try adding another cut. If it is only really thin paper then one cut is enough but on the thick card I have I use four cuts to get through.
 
It sounds as though you are getting the hang of the machine I’m sure you will be pleased with what you can do with it, particularly when you have repetitions.
 
I hope that helps.
 
 Regards


Chris

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 Posted: Mon Apr 29th, 2013 01:21 pm
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GreenBR
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Hello,
I don't wish to be nosey but how much did you guys have to pay for the kit (think it is a bit rich for my blood) Please feel free to tell me to bog off if you don't want to
Regards
stephen



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 Posted: Mon Apr 29th, 2013 01:53 pm
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Brookwood
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Hi Stephen

The Zing cutter was £299.00 including VAT and delivery. 

While it is American the UK site was very efficient. Here is the website and there is lots more information if you search on Google or Youtube.

https://klicnkut.co.uk/shop/knk-zing/

The price includes the mat, two blades and the necessary software. 

I hope that answers your question.

Regards

Chris 

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 Posted: Mon Apr 29th, 2013 02:31 pm
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Dorsetmike
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There are cheaper ones out there, from about £175 up, the cheaper ones usually have smaller cutting areas, or less versatile in the materials they can cut, often both disadvantages. However if you only want to cut lightweight card, paper or vinyl up to about A4 then they may well suit your purpose.
 
The Zing will cut up to A3 or just above (14" x 24") with the available mats and will cut heavier card, some plasticard, balsa and beech woods as well as paper and vinyl, you can also get a blade for cutting cloth and heads for engraving and embossing.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 29th, 2013 02:44 pm
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Brookwood
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Hi Everybody

A cool video of the Zing in action to show the sizes it will cope with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss1ZdyFHHpk

I'm unlikely to want to cut any banners that size but it might be nice for the next birthday party I go to.

Regards
Chris

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 Posted: Mon Apr 29th, 2013 02:46 pm
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Dorsetmike
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I thought I'd screwed up earlier, I applied some spray adhesive which I just happened to have, Bostik Fast Tak, do not use it on your mat. It came out in a jet rather than a spray, and is only repositionable for a short time, by the time I'd cut a sheet it had stuck so hard I had to soak it off in the sink, then could only remove the adhesive from the mat with Cellulose thinners on kitchen paper.

I've just been out and bought a couple of different cans  which I am assured are "permanently" repositionable, I will keep you informed of progress. (Why does my spill chucker object to repositionable??????)

Why is it when you go into a craft/hobby shop you come out with a lot more than you intended, I'm sure these things just seem to jump in the basket when you ain't looking. :roll:



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 Posted: Mon Apr 29th, 2013 07:24 pm
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Dorsetmike
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3Ms Spray Mount seems to be doing the job OK, doesn't feel quite as tacky as the mat originally  was; so I'm not going to try the other can I bought "Crafter's Companion" Stick & Stay, tin says permanent repositional adhesive, but when I read the small print it says it's permanently stuck after two minutes! So maybe not advisable to use it on the mat.

Any tips for setting depth of cut accurately for different stock? The PDF manual is not too clear, it shows ideal height above stock surface and pictures of the depth of cut, but nowhere could I find "turn top of holder X degrees to move down/up by Ymm" I can see myself making marks for "turn to here for 160gsm card"   "turn to there for vinyl" etc.

At the moment it's a case of set the depth fairly shallow, run it over a bit of scrap stock by hand out of the machine, check how deep it has cut, give it a quarter turn and repeat until you get a through cut, back off eighth of a turn and check again until you get it right by hand, then do a quick check in the machine, once this has been done a few times I'm hoping to have some idea of how many turns or parts of turns needed in each case.



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 Posted: Mon Apr 29th, 2013 07:34 pm
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Brookwood
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Hi Mike

This is cutting edge technology we are talking here. (I've been dying to say that for ages.) The only way is to experiment. You might waste some card but as long as you keep a note then you can build up a catalogue of what works for you.

I have started keeping samples of the card that I have written the settings on.

I vary the number of cuts it makes, I find that makes quite a difference. I don't expect to get all the way through in one cut.

Keep going, you are going in the right direction.

Regards

Chris

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 Posted: Mon Apr 29th, 2013 08:02 pm
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Angusog
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Hi Chris, Mike

Mike you are definitely getting the hang of it, as to depth of cut i do the same as Chris, test cut on scrap till it just comes through the stock, scratches on the mat don't matter as long as you are not cutting through, and Like chris I vary the amount of cuts on different stock on the 1 mm card i have used up to 4 cuts, usually 2 odes it but i have some very hard black stock which i find really hard to cut by hand, so i set to 4 cuts, to get through.

as for turns on the blade holder a quick measurement of the thread, i got 6 threads @ 6mm, so 1 complete turn is 1 mm, not very accurate as I assume that the thread will be Imperial and would equate to 1/4", so 6 turns to the 1/4" , would be 3 turns 1/8", 1.5 turns 1/16" and .75 turns 1/32, roughly. to get the depth im looking for I got a handy hint from Skatz , that is to fold the stock in half and cut till it just scratches the surface of the bottom layer, and yes i get the same as you that it doesn't always cut through all the way at the edges of the mat, not sure whats happening , not stuck down enough, blade lifting the mat, usually it is enough the i have a guide to finish the cut by hand easily enough.

Stephen, I paid $499.00 au for mine, a lot but i was flush at the time and I have used it for so much it has been well worth the purchase.

regards

Ropbert



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 Posted: Mon Apr 29th, 2013 10:23 pm
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Dorsetmike
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Frustration building here! Dunno what I'm doing wrong but it cuts out shapes from preprinted brick/stone/planked card, but no way can I get it to cut out the same shape printed onto card even using print and cut with registration marks, it's about 3mm out in one plane and just under 2mm out in the other, this is using the page that I posted in post #102 above, for example the fan light above the end door,  it is cutting the top of the fan light below the level of the top of the door and a bit to the right.

I imported a greyscale version of the BMP from my photo app then I did a print out from Make the cut adding  registration marks, I then made registration marks in the same locations on the image in the photo app and printed to card, loaded the card to Zing, set blade origin, then started the cut, which first sets up on the reg marks before cutting, did all that and it cuts as I said before 3 and 2 mm out. This is a fairly simple thing to cut out I would have thought, heaven knows when, if ever I will get round to coach sides!

If I hold a previously cut wall against a printout with doors and windows on it they line up, I put the printout from MTC over a print from the photo app, stick a pin through the MTC reg marks and they hit the reg marks I added in the photo app. So what do I try next??????????



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 Posted: Tue Apr 30th, 2013 07:42 am
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Brookwood
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Hi Mike

My first reaction to your problem, (and I'm only saying this because it happened to me), is that your card is moving. I found some cuts which weren't in the right place and the problem was the card moving. So now I also tape the edges down to be absolutely sure there is not possible movement whatsoever.

It was while I was cutting some fairly large items and the card was zooming backwards and forwards a lot so I may be barking up the wrong tree. But you were talking about the stickiness of your mat.

This is the problem with being innovative, we have to solve these problems between us.

Try taping the edges of your card as well as ensuring the mat is sticky.

I'm sure I remember you saying you had set the offset so I doubt it is that.

I hope that helps.

Regards

Chris


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 Posted: Tue Apr 30th, 2013 10:27 am
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Dorsetmike
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I would say definitely not the card moving, it cuts the shape  correctly, just  displaced by 2 or 3mm as you can see in this pic
sorry for poor quality and slant, just a quick grab shot with a compact  cropped quite heavily.



I think I'll change the windows too, it's not cutting them to shape all that well, especially the tiny top lights, tending to round the corners. I'll go back into the artwork and double check corners and simplify the frames.




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 Posted: Tue Apr 30th, 2013 12:26 pm
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Hello Guys,
Thanks for the replies. To buy one of these is going to cost me a lot of time doing what SWMBO wants!! Still it may be doable. I need to learn how to use the software first or a cad if you know of something 'simples' I could use all suggestions would bee appreciated
Thanks
Stephen



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 Posted: Tue Apr 30th, 2013 01:12 pm
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Brookwood
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Hi Mike

I see what you mean. That is definitely something wrong. Have all the windows moved by the same amount? The door light doesn't even look the right shape.

Hi Stephen

The 'Make the Cut' software (which comes with the Zing) is available as a trial version free on the internet. You just can't save or cut with it. It will give you a chance to see what is involved and that is what I did before I bought the Zing.

I also use 'Inkscape' which also comes free on the Internet. That is quite a large program, but I only use it to convert file formats. You might find you can use it for drawing and then load it straight into MTC.

There might even be a free CAD program which might enable you to do some drawing but you will still need 'Inkscape' to convert the DXF files that all CAD programs produce. The CAD programs produce very precise drawings and right angle corners which the machine cuts perfectly. The problem is that CAD programs can take a while to learn if you haven't used one before, so you may have to be very patient.

Have a play and see how you get on and if you want any help just ask.

Regards

Chris

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 Posted: Tue Apr 30th, 2013 07:14 pm
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Angusog
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Hi Mike

just displaced by 2 or 3mm
silly question and I ask because i do it all the time, have you set your offset in the cutting window, red blade is 0.35 blue blade 0.75, don't know if that would help Mike, but i forget to do it all the time. also Like chris said "have you set up your cut" I cannot get mine dead accurate after 6-8 tries i gave up, i can get it to .5mm either up or to the right but not both, no idea what it is , but for what I am using it for I can get away with it.

I am sure we will figure it out between us in time, I have had my machine over a year and Chris did some stuff i just hadn't though of, so learned  from that.

my machine does the same thing (thinking as I write here) and i am sure it is down to the accuracy of setting up the blade in the calibration tool box in the cutting window.



as you can see my settings here, i'm sure i need to go in and try again setting it to default and calibrate from there. but like you mine cuts probably 1mm across and 2 mm down from where it should.


not sure if i'm confusing the issue here, but hope this is of some help

regards




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 Posted: Tue Apr 30th, 2013 09:33 pm
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Dorsetmike
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I've redone the calibration, it was quite a way out, need to give it another minor tweak, still a bit under 0.5mm low, I could probably get away with using them  with judicious use of a felt tip pen!; I think I've also figured a decent way of adding registration marks in my photo app (following pics a twice actual).

   

I use the draw tool to extend lines from the top and side, then erase all but a small right angle, same at the other top corner, at the bottom corners are easier, the lines actually touch the corners.

I also need to make the vertical bars on the smaller windows wider, like 2 pixels instead of 1, on the above windows they are (or should be) 3 pixels they mostly cut OK but the thinner ones tear, (probably need to adjust cut depth and speed)

If the curved  part of the above frame looks a bit rough, it gets hidden by the outer wall layer, similarly that garish green will also not be on view (that's the MTC export colour!)

We're getting there!, To give you some idea of what I'm doing with this lot, I've just hurriedly clipped the timber outer wall over the doors and windows, behind them will be a transparent glazing layer, I may try printing the frames onto the transparent layer, problem there is can only use darker colours, light ones tend not to show up. You can see the white edges where the calibration is still slightly out and some of the widow frame bars that tore.



The 3Ms Spray Mount seems to be holding well, at 10 quid a can it ought to!



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 Posted: Wed May 1st, 2013 08:04 pm
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Dorsetmike
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Quick service from, KNK UK, on Monday ordered 2 mats, blades, blade springs and an engraving tool, arrived lunchtime today, tried out the engraving on some sheet brass and some evergreen plastic sheet, works fine, not a deep cut but for model railway use should be enough.  One thought would be for control panel fascias, engrave plastic, use a shadow layer to get a bit of extra width to the cut, then paint over but clean the paint from surface just leaving paint in the engraved groove. You could easily engrave a layout diagram/schematic and text for the switches.




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