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Brossard
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I've been busy lately.

First I took part in a group build of an etched wagon kit (on Model Rail Forum).  This is a Bill Bedford etched kit of a GWR diagram P4 ballast wagon - dating back to the late 19th century.  Mine was done in a BR era appearance:







Not the easiest to do but I got it together and it even goes.  The wheels are sprung.

My other project is another Bill Bedford kit - Conflat L.  I wanted a runner for 03 shunter.







There's a red and white lamp on the wagon buffer beam, denoting station pilot.  The loco would have this too, but it has electric lights.  Yes, before anyone says anything, the door window needs work.

Transfers for the two wagons are homemade - what a faff!

Details of the build can be found in the blogspot link below.

The other thing I did was to detail my set of Birds Eye containers.  This is the limited edition set from TMC:




The Conflat L kit came with etched shackles so I decided to use them here.  The wagons and containers are excellent as usual, I was impressed that everything has a different number.  I also added vacuum pipes (Romford wire wound) and weathered.

John

 

 

 

 

 

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John, I notice you use Kadees modified so how do you uncouple them?

Brossard
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With a pointed stick Ron. :cool wink I just don't like magnets.  I've always marched to the beat of my own drum - usually I get there.

John

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Thanks John, I thought the pointed stick would be the way - no problems when one can reach to to do the uncoupling.

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Useful for keeping spectators at a distance, too.

Brossard
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I completed my second ballast wagon today:




Here it is paired with its' mate.  Pictures that I have seen show that lettering and numbering was somewhat ad hoc so that's what I tried to replicate.  It took me about 8 hours to assemble the kit.

John

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Ooooh - I like those John. :thumbs

The weathering is excellent. :pathead

Are they both Bill Bedford kits ?

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Thanks Peter.  Yes they are the same kit from Bill.  Quite a challenge to get all the fiddly bits on.

John

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I think all these look really good John!

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Thanks Gene, if you had been at the clubhouse today, you would have seen them in the "flesh".

John

 

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John...did they all run well??

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Tch!  Of course!

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Oh they really look the part. I love the weathering.

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Cheers Jimmy, I always like to make my stuff look used.  In the case of these, REALLY used.

John

 

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I just finished weathering these:




The Bachmann 3 pack of PO wagons in the 50s or early 60s (they disappeared pretty quickly as the 60s wore on).  I was impressed with the distressing but the factory weathering left something to be desired.  I painted the white stripe on the 2 wagons with end doors and the brake handles white.  Additional weathering was done using an airbrush followed by powders.

John

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I started building some Roxey coach kits today:




The kit contents:




Today's progress on the first underframe:




More details at the blogspot link below.

John

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I got the underframe finished and bogies done today.  Here they are married up for the first time:




The ride height will need raising so that the bogies swing freely.

John

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That looks good and solid John - well made too :thumbs.

Is the floor frame where it's supposed to be on the kit ?  As you say, it will cartainly need a higher ride height but as is, it has very clean sleek lines ......


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Thanks Peter.  I'm kind of feeling my way at the moment so I'm not sure exactly what I'll do for a floor - probably plastic sheet.  Those holes will have to filled no matter what.

John

 

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I finished off the underframe today and adjusted the ride height by two washer thicknesses:




Note the two pieces of 0.032" wire on the left most bolster - this prevents the coach from rocking.

I took it to the club layout this evening and I'm happy to report that it took even the most challenging double curve crossover with ease.  It's a keeper.

I also started work on the body:







The droplights were a challenge because there are few cues to aid location from the inside.

John

 

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Look forward to seeing this completed, John.

Brossard
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Yep, coming along nicely I reckon.  I assembled the body today:




 I decided to try the body:




Looking like a coach now.

John

Last edited on Thu Jul 19th, 2012 09:56 pm by Brossard

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Some excellent work there John.  :thumbs

I have a few of those Roxey kits to do myself so I'll be following your progress with more than some interest! :cool:

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The paint job is going to be tricky.

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It's almost a sin to paint it

Brossard
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Jeff, you can see a lot more detail at my blogspot link.  Delighted that I can help.

Painting will be tricky yes.  Whenever I build a kit I always have in the back of my mind "how will I paint this?"  Sometimes it means leaving bits off until later - like, in this case, the ventilators above the doors.

If my soldering were better, I might agree that it shouldn't be painted.  As it is, paint will cover a multitude of sins.

John

 

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Here are some pics of a trial assembly:






Roof is on loosely and protected with masking tape - white gets grimy very quickly with handling.

Guard end has a Kadee on the bogie, other end has a loop coupling - its' mate will get a hook.

Assembly is now complete, I can start painting now.

John

 

 

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Very nice John. :thumbs

Was it difficult ?  I've always imagined those brass sides take some doing to get them true.  They're quite thin aren't they ?

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Lpoking very nice can't wait to see its progress as the paint is applied

Jim

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Lovely piece of workmanship. I have never had the courage to tackle a brass kit, so I am envious. However I have recently bought a soldering station so you never know!
Regards
Ray

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Thanks Guys.

These things are never "easy" but a well designed kit ( as this is ) goes a long way to making the job doable.  Yes the sides are very thin since the bead detail is half etched, but fit is precise and didn't require much in the way of fettling.

This is as far as I've ever taken a brass coach, but it's looking promising.

John

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A very nice build John and, as you say, "a definite keeper".

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I've been plodding away over the last few days.

I finished the build of the first coach. I added rainstrips and corbels to the roof - something I had forgotten above.




I was going to paint it but when I started looking at the "salmon" paint I was given, I didn't think the colour was right - so that's on hold.  I did paint the underframe and bogies black.




The "salmon" paint has been formulated locally using a swatch in an old book on railway liveries.  It is quite different from the colour of a preserved coach I have and other models.  The thing about colour of something that disappeared in the second decade of ther 20th century is that there are no reliable colour photos (there may be colourized ones) and no-one left to confirm the correctness.  It may well be that the colour I have is correct and everyone else is wrong.

The second coach is well on the way with bogies and underframe completed today.

John

Last edited on Sat Jul 28th, 2012 08:50 pm by Brossard

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I just know I would not have the patience to do coaches like this, the odd Coopercraft waggon is bad enough!

Doug

PS Love the weathering on the waggons earlier :thumbs

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LOL, yes, patience is required.  Well into the second coach build now.  I am queasy about the coach body painting.  Even with plastic wagon kits I like to make sure the brakegear is up to snuff by replacing some parts (there are so many that are impossibly fine to get right in plastic) with brass.

John

 

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I've more or less finished the solder construction of the second coach.  A few bits and bobs left.  This is a tri-composite (2 compartments each of 1st, 2nd and 3rd - all with lav. access).




I would say that this one went together easier and quicker than the first - not surprising I suppose.

John

Last edited on Tue Jul 31st, 2012 09:09 pm by Brossard

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Another triumph!

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Looks brilliant John and, as you say, maybe practice makes perfect. :thumbs  By the time you've done the whole train, you'll be throwing them together in no time at all .............

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Hi John, lovely work on the wagons and especially the coaches. I presume that you are using an airbrush to paint the coaches, how will you go about the interior? Are they going to be detailed inside?

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Cheers chaps.   I do plan to airbrush the coaches.  I tried brush painting enamel on a pair of coaches not too long ago ... what a mess.  I hope to get some thinners for the salmon paint tonight.  I am inspired by an article by Andrew Lambert in MRJ 82 for the interior.  Basically layers of 0.010" plastic.  I already cut the windows out using the coach sides as a template.




John

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Taking a leaf out of Doug's book, I decided to type "LSWR Coaches" into my browser.  My blogspot article came out second on the list, right behind Bluebell Railway (who have a very nice LSWR brake).

John

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I mentioned my doubts about the "salmon" colour earlier.  Tonight I borrowed a very good book on the subject of livery:  Britain's Railway Liveries, Colours, Crest and Linings, 1825 - 1948 by Ernest F. Carter.  Published in 1952 by Burke.  I'm kicking myself because I actually found the book on a used book stand and pointed it out to my friend who bought it ($4.50)

In the back of the book is an appendix containing colour samples of 50 colours.  The text frequently describes the recipe for the colour.  For example, in the entry for LSWR 1900 - 1905, it describes the "salmon pink" as "white lead - 4lb 5oz, burnt sienna - 3oz, venetian red - 2.5oz and middle chrome yellow - 0.75oz".

I also got the computer printout from the store that produced the paint:  red oxide 53.2 (parts), yellow 9.4, white 6.3 and black 2.1.  Odd that the proportions are different from the LSWR recipe.

I was also given additional bottles of paint and thinners, so we're off. 

John

 

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Well done.
Would be interested to see pics of the finished sample.

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An update on the coach build.  I finished the roof of the second coach today so I think that's construction done.




I will do all 5 to this state and then go back to do the final painting.

John

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Certainly coming along quite well John, You should be pleased so far.

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I'm looking forward to seeing them in their livery John.  They'll look great and they'll certainly have some "substance" about them. :thumbs

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Boy, almost a year on now since my last post - where did the time go?  I think I've just about conquered my modeller's block :cheersand over the last two weeks have been working on coach #4 in the rake and started the 6 wheel brake :pedal.  Today I primed the 4th coaches' underframe and bogies.  I'l post some pictures shortly.
John

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What a good read and great modelling patience you have ! Looking foward to seeing the coaches painted. If anything, the way you have presented the wagons at the beginning of this thread, the coaches will turn out no different. Excellent !

Cheers, Gary.

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Ha!  The wagons were easy because they were meant to be grotty.  I'm quite nervous about the coaches.
John

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Brossard wrote:
Ha!  The wagons were easy because they were meant to be grotty.  I'm quite nervous about the coaches.
John


Ha ha... I know full well from structure modelling that to make a good distressed building you must start with a good un-distressed building!

Doug

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They look very good to me John, and they'll make a nice rake for your layout. Something you can look back on and say " I made those".

Keep it coming...


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Yep, really looking forward to the day they're finished.

Pictures as promised:



All 3rd coach.




6 wheeled brake underframe - I wanted to check the Kadee height.  Center axle moves laterally and leftmost axle swivels.  Quite a challenge to work out the intent of the instructions.  I managed to melt part of the leftmost spring - repaired with plastic strip.



Brake body - fairly straightforward.
John

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I came slightly unstuck when trying to get the lower footboards on the underframe.  I totally misread/misunderstood the instructions and ended up having to strip the underframe.  I damaged some castings in the process but got some spares from Roxey.


I spent the last while working on the coach on and off and finally got the construction done:



Now that all 5 coaches are complete as far as construction goes, I will be thinking about paint and interior.


John

Last edited on Sat Sep 21st, 2013 07:00 pm by Brossard

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Excellent build work on your rolling stock John.
Those kits certainly add to variety when it comes to running your railway.
Now painting liverys is an altogether different challange.
I see all the Bill Bedford range are being offered by Mousa models now, plus they are developing loads of pre grouping rolling stock, LNWR,MR,GNR etc,etc also the coach range is being upgraded.

regards,

Derek.

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Thanks Derek, these are being built for a friend (who is paying me, though not much).  A good way to gain experience.

I really like Bill Bedford's designs.  I assume you are referring to the wagons at the start of the thread.  Not the easiest build but a very gratifying result.  I built the ballast wagons as part of a group build initiated by someone on Model Rail Forum.  About 20 people signed up but I only saw one other wagon actually finished to a reasonable state.

I have his 2-4-2T chassis in EM that I plan to put under a Cotswold kit - hopefully before Bachmann get theirs out.

John

Last edited on Mon Sep 23rd, 2013 03:41 pm by Brossard

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At last!  It’s all coming together.   I primed the coach bodies yesterday and they look about 1000 times better.  I used a 3 part process (which I don’t claim to be the most efficient or best – just my choice):

1)      Acid (5% Acetic) bath overnight 

2)      Primed with paint that seemed to be specifically formulated for bare metal (the tall can).  I could only find grey.

3)      Primed again with Red Oxide.  Since the coaches are to be salmon/brown, I wanted this to be the undercoat (which does matter).


I’ve also prepared the seats, 1st, 2nd and 3rd – what a lot!

John


Last edited on Thu Sep 26th, 2013 03:11 pm by Brossard

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Oh they do look good John.
Well Done!

If you ever get stuck for Acetic acid, white vinegar will do the trick? Of course the smell is a little stronger.

regards,

Derek

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Actually Derek, Vinegar is what I used - got a big bottle of the cheapest I could find.

John

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They look very good indeed John.

Look forward to seeing the top coat next.

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Thanks Trevor - spent some time today trying to replicate the salmon colour.  I think I got it pretty close.  Phoenix do the colour but the new rules from Royal Mail have stopped "hazardous" material from being shipped.  Some suppliers are using couriers for shipping so that costs more.


John

Last edited on Thu Sep 26th, 2013 06:37 pm by Brossard

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Yes, I believe Phoenix are using a courier service now.

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Well, I can breathe easier now, the coach bodies are painted and came out just about as well as could be hoped.
 
The salmon was a challenge.  Even though I had the “recipe” from Carter (see post above), the job turned out to one of seemingly never ending trial and error.  Finally though, I think the colour is credible.  The lower panel colour was less of a problem but achieved the same way – trial and error.
 
I used a gloss varnish at this stage to make the transfers adhere better.  I will finish with a satin varnish.
 
I noticed (just now as I took the pictures) that there are one or two areas in need of touch up.






















John

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Those coaches are coming on a treat John.
That colour sceme reminds me of the old L&Y livery.
Have fun with the lining out transfer,s.

regards,

Derek

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Thanks Derek, lining should be finished today.  I can do one side before having to have a sit down - amazing how tiring all that concentration can be.  The job, however, has progressed astonishingly well and I am well pleased.:pathead  All will be revealed.

John

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Finally!  I'm finished.  Not too bad if I do say so myself.  These are the first coach kits I actually completed.




All 3rd




Brake van




6 lav Tri Composite




3rd Brake




2 lav Tri Composite

For the lining, I tried something new - for me anyway.  I created the panel shapes using PowerPoint.  Yes, the lining is black with an outer red band so that was a bit tricky (no way was I even going to try to use a lining pen).  I then had to arm wrassle my laser printer to print onto Microscale clear transfer sheets.  I discovered that it is essential to varnish the sheet after printing otherwise the toner will rub off.  I used Krylon Matte but found that Testors have a decal sheet varnish as well.

I spent pretty much a whole week putting the lining on and it took 4 sheets.

Lettering is from HMRS Pressfix and is their usual superb quality.  I did need two sheets but only because there weren't enough "LSWR" brands on one sheet for 5 coaches.  Now I have the best part of the sheets left over.

After completing the transfers I sprayed first with Dullcote and then with a coat of Semi-Gloss/Satin.

For the lav windows, I scanned the line drawings that came with the kit and printed onto acetate.  I then sprayed the back of the acetate with Krylon Matte to get a frosted effect.

Seats are Ratio with some mods to represent 2nd and 1st class (armrests).

Let me know if you need to know anything else.

John

 

 

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An absolutely stunning result John. :doublethumb

They must be unique and you should be very proud of them.

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Thanks Trevor.  Pretty chuffed I think.  They are probably unique as well, being the 1906 livery.  When I was building them I searched for examples of other models and didn't find much at all.

John

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Not a 5 minute job then John ?? Very nice indeed.

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They are very special indeed John. A lovely job and one that now done, will delight you every now and then during operation when you realise... "hey, I made them!"


Bravo.


Marty

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Superb workmanship John,they look absolutely stunning.:doublethumb

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I've done a few  LSWR vehicles in N gauge, Ultima/Etched Pixels does them and some from other pregrouping companies, I have 3 of the 30' 6 wheel brakes and a couple of 48' fruit brakes*. Mine are finished in 1930s Maunsell olive livery.

http://www.etchedpixels.co.uk/

Some vehicles are etched brass, some of the more recent a mix of 3D print and etches, also plenty of detailing items.

Very simple construction for most of the etched items, sides and ends fold up from the floor and just need joining at the corners.

*Fruit brakes, most of the time ran as either luggage, parcels or passenger brake vans, but could be adapted to take trays/boxes of fresh picked strawberries, raspberries, black currants in season from growers in Hampshire and other market garden areas.


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A most excellent result John.
There will be no stopping you now, Any railway era can be tackled with confidence.
Tell me what is power point?
Lining and lettering can be a real deal breaker when it comes to tackling kits and restricts many of us in our railway choice of era,s and models.

Thanks for shareing these great builds,

Derek.

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Hi John, The carriages are looking absolutely brilliant and using power point to do the panels, a touch of genius. Well done, a truly marvellous finished project.

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Thanks all for the encouraging words, guys.

I definitely agree that the decoration of any model can make or break it.  I was on tenterhooks the whole time I was doing it.  However, the result is quite good and I can't see how anyone could get a bow pen into some of those really tiny panels.  I can imagine using the method again for loco and other coach lining.  I have a lot of boxes ticked off in this hobby, but using a bow pen is unticked.

Derek, Powerpoint is a Microsoft Office program designed for producing presentation slide shows.  It has a decent drawing facility.  The Office package is quite expensive to buy (I got a deal from where I used to work) but Google do a free version version called Open Office which is very close.

John

 

 

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Many thanks for that info John.
I have found bow pens and lining pens very difficult to use.
Well useing them is not difficult.
Getting straight and curved lines is the killer.
I shall take a look at the Google open office software.

regards,

Derek.

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Hi John
I have just read through the thread and I'm impressed by your work, I have quite a few brass kits to build (a long way off yet) and enjoyed seeing how yours turned out especially on one of those early liveries.
I have often thought about using the PC to produce lining but never came up with anything suitable so a big thanks for showing us how, however seeing as I have some lining pens I feel I should give them a go first. I did try it at a show demo once and it seemed easy, but doing it on a newly built model is a different thing.  
Jim

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I have dabbled with bow pens, Jim, but never with any seriousness.  I always worry that the pen will hit a bump and blob.  Very easy to ruin a lot of work I reckon.  The pen has to be honed just so and the paint has to be just the right viscosity - too many variables for my taste.  I figure why not use the technology available to us.  Transfers for lining came out surprisingly well so I will use that method again.

John

 

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Those of you who have experienced 6 wheeled vehicles will know how temperamental thay can be.  I tamed my Dapol Stove R by heavily reworking the underframe.

The 6 wheeled brake in this rake is no different.  I was able to test it on a friend's layout that has Peco small radius and handbuilt A5 points.  I found it to be hopeless on the Peco points and very unhappy on the A5s.

The answer came to me overnight in one of those Eureka! moments.

The intent of the out of the box design is that the entire center "compensation unit" is supposed to slide from side to side. Well, in building this, and after doing some extreme fettling, I couldn't much more than a mm from it. In addition, having the whole unit move is asking for trouble given the friction.

So, I fashioned a U shaped inside bearing unit that permits the axle to move from side to side. I trimmed off the axle pinpoints as well.

I did take a "before" picture but it came out blurred

This is the redesign:




I found an old Peco small point and was able to test the chassis - all seems well now.

John

 

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That's an excellent piece of development engineering John.
Those 6 wheeler vans and coach's can be very temperamental.
Getting your design to work on a Peco short turnout shows its potential.

regards,

Derek.

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So, while I wait for my loco kit to arrive, I said I'd do another project.  I started my D&S L&Y 6 wheeled brake last night.  From the kit notes, these were to dia. 61, originally a 4 wheeled configuration, but modified to 6 wheels in 1918.  These apparently lasted into the BR era.

The kit comes as an etched sheet:




There's also a bag of whitemetal castings and other bits and bobs.

I made good progress last evening, getting the underframe mostly done:




I stopped for two reasons, 1) Death in Paradise was on and 2) the center axle has a special assembly process that I have yet to figure out.

The parts have a lot of folds that are reinforced with solder.  Other parts are tabbed so accurate location is easy.  The trickiest bit was sweating on the solebar overlays, I took several tries to get that done.  Luckily I remebered to wipe the iron so I didn't get solder all over it.

The leftmost axle is fixed and the rightmost axle looks to have rocking compensation.

John

 

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Today's progress so far has been detailing the underframe.




I've made up the center axle assembly.  The wheel axle sits in the tube and has it's pinpoints ground off.  A wire will pass through the center of the assy and the rightmost rocking axle assy to float.  I haven't quite got that straight in my head yet.

I also made up the brake cylinder assembly and, to it's right, the V hanger assy.  The instructions say that the 6 wheel brake gear is "quite complicated" but pictures are provided so we'll have a bash at that.

John

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Quite a bit more progress this afternoon.




Lower stepboards are on as well as axlebox/springs and buffers.  You may notice that the cylinder looks different.  That's because just after I took the last picture, I washed it.  In doing so I dropped the thing into the sink and the cylinder came off and vanished down the plug 'ole.  I wasn't about to fish around in the U bend so I used a spare.  (Aside:  Mainly Trains carry a large range of useful bits and pieces under their own brand name - always good to stock up on such things).

I'll paint it next I think since once the brake gear is in and wheels installed, there is little access.

John

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Thats a decent build to tackle John.
I assume by floating axle they mean unsprung it just rocks with the track undulations?
Those sinks are a menace. Mainly trains do stock some useful stuff.Also they are very reliable suppliers for us mail order people.
I still have some comet loco chassis in jiffy bags plus motors and gear boxes.

Have a good week.

Derek.

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Derek, there's a wire that runs through the front and center axle assemblies to provide some springing, I'm not sure how that will work yet.

This morning I finished off the body by preparing handrails and soldering the whitemetal ends.




All was not sweetness and light and had to rip the thing apart last night when I realized that side flanges had to be angled and that the sides had been put on too high.  All good now though.

I also revisited the underframe to see what I'd forgotten.  Sure enough I had left off some upper footsteps so had to scrape off the primer to get those on.  Also glued on the reservoir.

I also found two pieces associated with the brake gear that are missing from the drawing so I don't know where they go except that from the cryptic instructions they are near the center axle.




The errant pieces are the separate brass bits.

So, tooth sucking and navel gazing until I figure out what to do next.

John

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I'm just catching up after a long lay-off John. ;-)

You've got to be really, really pleased with that coaching stock - it looks wonderful. A real labour of love but it was all well worth it  :pathead:pathead

Regarding the brake van - I'm ashamed to admit that I've never built either a brass or a white metal kit (although I have melted a couple of the latter before now :oops:) but I'm wondering how you solder white metal to brass given the, presumably large, difference in temperatures between the two materials required to get the solder to bond. :hmm

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Really happy to hear from you Peter.:hi

I'm particularly happy to have finished the coaches, they came out well, and the chap I built them for is over the moon.  I was able to take them much farther than I thought.

No need to be ashamed about not building a brass kit before - I haven't done all that many myself.  We all need to find our comfort zone.  The nice thing about brass is that you can't melt it and if you make a mistake, you have a do-over.

One goal I have is to try to show people that there is no magic to these kits, certainly not if I can do them.:mrgreen:

Good question about whitemetal and brass.  Low melt solder (70C) will not stick to brass, but it will stick to 145C solder.  Therefore the trick is to tin the brass with 145C and then use 70C solder (not really solder I'm told) to attach the whitemetal parts.  I will solder large pieces but for small ones I use cyano.

I'm really liking my soldering station, it responds to temperature adjustment quickly.:Happy  I'm using paste flux and this is doing a great job vs. phosphoric acid.

See my other thread on the Cauliflower for more pontificating.

John

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Petermac wrote:
I'm just catching up after a long lay-off John. ;-)

You've got to be really, really pleased with that coaching stock - it looks wonderful. A real labour of love but it was all well worth it  :pathead:pathead

Regarding the brake van - I'm ashamed to admit that I've never built either a brass or a white metal kit (although I have melted a couple of the latter before now :oops:) but I'm wondering how you solder white metal to brass given the, presumably large, difference in temperatures between the two materials required to get the solder to bond. :hmm


I saw the coaches in the flesh yesterday on the layout at the club rooms. I can confirm they are brilliant. The build, livery and lining is fantastic. John did an amazing job on them! Well done John.

Cheers
Gene

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Thanks John - and Gene for the confirmation of the coach appearance.

I'll have a look on your cauliflower thread to learn more.  As I said, I'm trying to catch up after my long lay-off and it's amazing how much has been posted over what has turned out to be around 6 weeks ...........:shock::shock::shock:

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I posted the question about the brake gear to a couple of other forums.  I'll give that a bit of time before going into speculation mode and guessing.  Always a good idea to sleep on these things.

In the meantime, I decided to get on with a job that I've been meaning to do for some time, a test track.  I spent the last couple of days building the board:




My joinery skills won't save my life but it will do the job.  I used a piece of 1' x 4' 1/2" ply that I had lying around.  The sides are crap both sides 1/2" ply and 4" deep.  I'll use this on the real layout, my theory being that the sides only need to resist bending and this quality ply is pretty light, being mostly filler and air.  I've got some birch ply that I will use for ends on the real thing.  I put some cork sheet on the top, again what I had lying around.

My idea is to put two lengths of track with a point each.  One length will be 00 and the other EM.  I will use a small Peco point, you guessed it, it was lying around.  For the EM track, I need to decide on the point radius.  A few weeks ago I bought a job lot of EM track and in it were some Scaleway point kits.  This is a good opportunity to use one of these and to get some practise at point building, which I haven't done for some time.  Nothing fancy, just copper clad construction.

A typical point kit:




The template is for a right or left hand point, 36" rad.  At the top there is some code 75 bullhead rail.  At the bottom, copper clad strips.  Not sure what that bit of wire on the left is for.  On the right, there is a tie bar and some solder.  I think that piece of metal is a flangeway guide.

I'll illustrate my build.

Last edited on Wed Oct 23rd, 2013 06:49 pm by Brossard

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I decided to make the 36" radius A5 point straight out of the packet.  First step is to cut the template down to size, tape it to piece of good plywood and get the timbers laid down.




I use double sided tape to stick the timbers down.

Next, the first stock rail.




I gave it a gentle curve by pulling it between my thumb and forefinger repeatedly until it lay more or less on the template curve.  The blade will have to fit very snugly to the stock rail.  My method here was to file a rebate in the rail so that the flanges are down to the rail web for about half an inch and then to gently file away to blend that in until the stock rail is no longer in contact with the blade.  The file with the red handle is my favourite - it has a diamond coating.  It's also just about 1mm thick which comes in handy with the 1mm flangeways.

At this stage, I just tacked the rail in place in a few places.  Believe me, there will be adjustments.  I used the fiber pen to give the timbers a quick polish to remove any oxidation.

I like to use 60/40 solder for this job.  I suppose rosin core solder is OK, but I prefer to use the rosin flux separately.  It does make a sticky mess but cleans up with methyl hydrate.  I set my iron to 340C for this job.

Next the vee, which is the core of the point.




I made the 1:5 jig from a couple of pieces of copper clad and track pins.  File the ends of the rail to a point until they mate up nicely and use the jig to solder them together.  I used a quick dab of solder to fill a gap at the tip, then filed everything smooth.  You'll want to round over the nose of the vee so that the wheel doesn't get jolted too badly when it contacts it.

Start putting things together now.




Put the vee on the point aligning it with the template.  Note that the nose must sit on a timber.  Use roller gauges to set the stock rail correctly.




Next the wing rails.  The alignment of these and the knuckles especially are critical.  Spend time getting this right.  The two knuckles must be dead opposite one another.  The vee rails must align exactly with the wing rails so that wheels transition smoothly.   The lower wing rail should be given a gentle curve before fitting.  The flangeways are 1mm, you can see the gauge.

At this point, having several different length steel rules comes in handy.  Make sure the straight wing rail and vee rail are in line and that the left end of the wing rail is lined up with the left end of the point.  At this stage it's a good idea to try a wagon on the point to see if it runs smoothly - if it doesn't, something's wrong.  Better to find out now than when the thing is done.

Next, the blades and moving towards completion.




I got the straight blade in and everything is straight...now.  I had to lift the wing rails and realign things to be straight :roll:

Making the blades takes a bit of practice but I made these pretty fast.

One thing that will be useful is a file with a dead edge.  Most files that I have seen come with both edges with "teeth".  You may need to go to a specialist tool shop to find one.

Start with the side of the rail that is in contact with the stock rail.  Use the large file to remove about the half the width of the rail.  Resting the rail on the piece of wood and filing away from you removes the material very quickly.  Next, turn the rail over.  This is where the dead edge comes in.  You want to file off the top flange while leaving the bottom one.  Use the large file to remove most of the material.  Finally, I used the small file to finish up.  You are looking for a very sharp blade end.  Make sure to undercut the rail.  Round over the nose of the blade.  It should be a very snug fit in the rebate.  Beware of any solder on the blade side of the stock rail.  Remove it now.

I made the second blade which is on the wood.

That's all for now.

John

 

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A brilliant tutorial John - even I can follow that one.  Many thanks indeed. :cheers:cheers

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Thank you Peter, nice to know.

John

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I spent the morning, completing the basic build of the point.  Thinking on it, it's a good thing I did this because I found myself to be very rusty and making silly mistakes.




I installed the straigh stock rail.  Tack it at the left in a couple of places, then tack it at the right, using the hroller gauges (and you can't have too many).  Use a steel rule to confirm that the rail is straight, then make a couple more tacks to hold the rail solidly.  I think it's pretty important to tack the rails and not solder all the timbers.  If you make a mistake, it is easier to adjust the tack joint that to have to unsolder all the solder joints.




Finally, I installed the curves blade and check rails.  It really helps to have an unpowered chassis to check that the point works.  Install the check rails by first tacking one end roughly at the right gap then, using your 1mm gauge (supplied with this kit), tack the other end.  Use the gauge to adjust your first tack and then tack in the center.  Put a curve in the check rail for the diverging road, then do the same.  This is slightly trickier because you have to maintain the curve.  After doing this, I did find tightness and spent some time finagling things.  A trick I saw Norman Soloman using is to get a hand mirror and small flashlight and position them so you can see what's going at wheel level.  I found that the curved check rail was too tight and eased it's gap slightly*.

A couple things left to do are to put in the tie bar and make insulating gaps.

*I will note that the chassis pictured has Markits wheels which, while nominally to RP25 have thinner flanges than the NMRA spec (0.87mm).  The flanges however, are ever so slightly thicker than the EMGS spec (0.68mm vs 0.54mm).  An article in EMGS Newsletter 194 goes through an analysis and one conclusion of the author is that there could be tightness on curves due to "erosion of tolerances".  Most of the wheels I plan to use are Markits are RTR, so that's something I will have to watch out for.

John

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Impressive indeed.

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Thanks Gene, perhaps you should do a tutorial using Fast Tracks, I think there are US outline modellers here.

I completed the point.




I didn't like the tiebar supplied with the kit so I used a piece of copper clad.  A 0.032" hole was drilled in the center.  Blades were soldered to the tie bar using a scrap piece of copper clad, paxolin side to the join, as a gauge (~1mm).  A couple of issues with this method:

1)  The hole in the middle of the tiebar is a weak point and I have seen tiebars break at this point.  The tiebar should be replaced, not easy to do when the point is laid, painted and ballasted.  Note I removed the copper at one side of the hole - this reduces the stress raiser. 

2)  The solder joints are under stress from the point being actuated and can break.  This is an easy repair - just clean and re-solder.

A better method to do the tiebar is to use brass pins as hinges.  I was going to do this but could I find my pins?  If you do this you can turn the copper clad over so that the paxolin side faces up.  This way, after drilling for the pin holes you can a) remove the copper near the holes and b) after drilling for the actuating pin, solder a piece of scrap brass over the hole for reinforcement, re-drill the hole.

You may wonder that there are no hinges on the point blades.  Slow motion point motors have sufficient power to actuate the points without these.  I have made hinges using thin phosphor bronze strip soldered to the outside of the rail, but that is a fiddle.

I prefer to use my Dremel and cutting wheel to scrape away the copper from the timbers to make insulating gaps.  Again something I saw Norman Soloman do (http://www.model-railway-dvd.co.uk/right_track10.php).  Cutting slits as most people seem to do, makes stress raisers and is very obvious, requiring filling. 

Conclusion:

1)  Soldering:  using rosin flux leaves you with a sticky mess.  You can clean up with Methyl Hydrate but it is a bit of a nuisance.  The advantage is that rosin won't corrode.  You can use phosphoric acid flux and 145C solder, much less of a mess but you must wash the point carefully once built.  Using paste flux and 145C solder seems the best option, the paste flux I have won't corrode (a test piece I made a week ago and left unwashed is still shiny) and is water soluble. 




In the UK, I think there is a similar product called Templer's Telux.

2) Learning curve:  something I had to climb for this build.  As one gains experience and practice the relationship between track and wheels, especially at the crossing, will become better understood.  Your first point may not work but keep at it.

References: 

1) Iain Rice's Finescale Track - http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/1874103003.php

2) Trax 2 - http://www.transportdiversions.com/publicationshow.asp?pubid=4070

3) Right Track 10, link above.

John

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John....I think the main benefit of the Fast Track system is that the jigs and filing tools make accurate filing of the blades,rebates and frog-vee a very quick and accurate process....
A complete point can,with a bit of practise be built in about 40 minutes. However one is limited to the actual geometry of the jig one has purchased. The system you use is much more flexible but a bit more time-consumeing to build. Both have their advantages.

Meanwhile your tutorial has been very enlightening.l.lwhen I return in the spring I think I will have a go using your system.

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Indeed Gene, faster and perhaps making the crossing is a little more certain.  Worth knowing about both methods I think.  Glad to know I've inspired you to try this method.

John

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Excellent tutorial John.
You pretty well covered everything.

regards,

Derek.

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Thanks Derek, being able to make one's own points enables more flexibility with layout design.  When I get to my real layout, I plan to use the chaired method.  I also have a supply of wooden timbers and sleepers along with rivets that came with my job lot, so I'm thinking about how to use that.

John

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Chaired method????

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These:  http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=346_347_348

They thread onto the rail and are glued to the timbers.  US/CDN practice is to use spikes.  I have a gabazillion.

John

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I hope you have a lot of patience John.
Chaired turnouts do look the business though.
Regarding rivets if you are using plastic chairs you won't need them. Glue the chairs to the wooden sleeper's after threading them onto the rail.
I am not sure if some chair brands come with a little locating spigot which would be very handy for predrilled punched sleeper,s.

regards,

Derek.

OOops posts crossed.

Last edited on Fri Oct 25th, 2013 09:13 pm by shunter1

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Yes Derek, they do take a lot more effort but, as you say, they look the business.  I have tried them before.

The chaired points with plastic timbers look great, however, I don't think they are strong enough in two places:

1)  At the tie bar and

2)  At the crossing

Some people cheat a bit and use copper clad timbers in strategic places to get additional strength, and that is what I had planned to do.  The problem with this is that you can't put chairs at these locations.

Now, though, instead of copper clad reinforcement, I can use the timber & rivets soldered to the rail.  Using this I can install cosmetic chairs :lol:.  I have seen this done by pushing a half chair against the rail while applying the soldering iron to the rail top.  This softens the chair allowing it to conform to the rail/rivet.

I have both C&L and Exactoscale chairs.  The latter are moulded such that you can use the sprue to push the chairs on the rail.

I do have all (or most anyway - discovered a new one today) of the EMGS gauges for making vees and blades as well as a crossing jig.  I didn't use them for the point build here because I wanted to illustrate things from first principles.

It's going to be an exciting journey.

John

 

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An excellent thread John. :thumbs

Apart from the sleeper (tie) spacing being better, to me the main advantage of hand built points is the ability to build exactly what you need rather than trying to make your track fit available geometry.

It doesn't matter how good RTR track laying is - even "finescale", hand built stuff always stands out.  You do however, need patience and that's something I lack by the bucket full !!! :oops::oops::oops:

Gene can build his points in 40 minutes, I can open around 100 Peco boxes in that time (and I won't burn my fingers) .........................:roll::roll::mutley:mutley

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You're so right about the flexibilty of hand built track Peter.  Even copper clad points, when painted and ballasted, look finer than Peco code 75 - have a look at the flangeways on a Peco point, they're HUGE!

Of course, copper clad points are also very cheap, although you can buy pre made vees, crossings and blades.

Occasionally I might singe my fingers when soldering, causing me to drop the work but that is different from burning and lasting damage - never happened.

John

 

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Use your fingernail tips guys.
No nerves in them so no pain like a horse hoof.
Saves you trimming them as well!

Derek.

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shunter1 wrote: Use your fingernail tips guys.
No nerves in them so no pain like a horse hoof.
Saves you trimming them as well!

Derek.


Yes, and your workroom will smell like a dentist's surgery as they burn down......................:shock::shock::mutley:mutley

I may have a go at building one myself John - they do look really good .........:roll:

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I laid the 00 and EM track on the test track, held loosely with pins.  It all looks pretty good and will do what I need for now.  I'll wire it all up another day.

Getting back to the brake, my leetle grey cells have been racing about like mad things and I think I've come up with a solution for those orphan vee hangers.

There is very little room in the underframe so, in a flash of insight, I decided to try them on the center axle unit.  I had to do some surgery here and there and added some brass strip for support but it seems to work:




As usual with these things, the solution caused another problem - with the reservoir - it was a hopeless foul, so I think you can see the saddle I made with some scrap brass.




You can see the center axle unit in place and just fitting.  I may need to remove a bit of material from the saddle to provide full clearance but it all seems good.  I will remove the WM legs from the reservoir, file a flat and glue it to the saddle after everything else is done.

John

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I got the van underframe running today  :Happy  Quite happily as well, so that's a bonus.




The body is in primer grey and will be painted a much nicer grey (TBD).  It looks twisted slightly in the picture - I will have to look at that.




I ended up conceding defeat with the suspension system designed into the kit :brickwall  Instead I just glued the "moving" axle units down, shimming the center one to get the right height.  As it happens, the suspension was a load of unnecessary complication, all I did was give the center axle some side play.

I didn't fully rig the brakes - there's simply no room.  The brake yokes are from the very useful MainlyTrains brake gear etch (several different ones available).

So, I'm relieved that's done - I can get on with the cosmetic stuff now.

John

 

 

 

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Well Done John,
That Lanky brake van is coming along nicely.
Sometimes we have to compromise with these kits to preserve our sanity.
Also with EM you are still allowed a little leeway.

regards,

Derek.

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Indeed, my brain usually hurts after a session with kits like this.  Forging ahead today with painting etc.

John

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I got my brake van completed today:Happy




The L&Y painted their brakes black, but a couple of factors influenced me to do mine dark grey.

-  reading an old MRJ article on L&Y brakes (not this one unfortunately), the author confessed to painting his models dark grey because black tends to kill detail.

- my reading also turned up that LMS were slow to repaint their inherited vans so, if they were originally black that would have faded over the years.

Transfers are HMRS Pressfix and yes the M in this picture is damaged, only just noticed it :twisted:.  Unfortunately, the number is a fiction.  It is based on one of only 2 pictures of the van I could find and that is a completed model in L&Y livery.  LMS tended to add a prefix number to their inherited wagons to give them a 6 digit number.  I added 300000 to the L&Y number.  I also didn't know where to put the number.  Normally, LMS brakes had their number at the top in a black panel - I couldn't do that here because of the window.

Couplings are scale head Kadee.

The final step is to weather - that will conceal many sins.

John

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Regards the "M" John the damage just makes it look a more realistic model.Great job.:thumbs

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Thanks Alan.  Being of that sort of mind, I mended it.

John

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I had a chat with a mate of mine who knows about these things and he suggested that it was possible that the van never had a bodyside number.  Certainly the one picture I was able to find of the van in LMS times (Modeller's BackTrack Vol 2 #2) doesn't have a number on the body but does have a solebar plate showing ownership and the number (which is not legible).  So I put my mind to it and, using Powerpoint, created tiny plates (bold font 2.5 if interested).

I have also weathered the van, so I think it can be called finished:







I added a Springside tail lamp.

Hmmm, what will I do next?

John

 

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Build a layout??:mrgreen:

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Oh lord no.  I want to get some more rolling stock and locos in place first.

John

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Superb build, superb model ! Very nice finish on the end product.

Cheers, Gary.

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very nice John,
A lovely model.
Colours of brake vans are tricky.
Looking at a repainted (LMS)1924 4-wheeled L&Y brake van.
It was painted light grey, probably for photo purposes.
Running number 162786 placed on the lower body panel.Left end under the L of LMS and below the side handrails.
The LMS plate was placed on the solebare beneath the running number 162786.
Although the Lanky kept there plates in a central position on the solebare.
The LMS seemed to have left the tare number in this case 20.8.0. in its original L&Y position.
Looking at an old 6 wheeled brake in L&Y days around 1914
There appears to be a running number placed on the central body panel in line with the bottom of the L and Y letters of the company.
From the photo the brake looks dark grey in colour or of course faded black?
Sorry about all the script.

Derek.

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Thanks Gary.

Derek, I think I'll leave well enough alone now.  The other picture I found was of a Jidenco (now Falcon Brassworks) kit in L&Y black livery.  This had the number on the RHS of the van adjacent to the window.  Font was strange:

http://mozzermodels.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=136495705

John

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Lovely work John.

I have loads of brass kits to make later and I shall refer to your thread when I get that far especially where it concerns 6 wheelers.

Thanks for posting.

Jim

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Jim, I hope that my narrative helps you and anyone else to build these sort of kits.  It's nice to have something out of the ordinary.

John

Last edited on Fri Nov 1st, 2013 04:49 pm by Brossard

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So, for my next trick.....

This Hornby LMS 6 Wheeled Milk van has been in it's original box for years.  I will attempt to convert it to EM and give it a more plausible underframe:




The first thing was to check the model against the real thing.  I have Jenkinson and Essery's LMS Coaches which is pretty much the bible for LMS modellers.  The van body looks to be pretty much spot on, so I needn't touch that.  The solebars are too wide being flush with the body on the model but clearly recessed on the real thing.  There is some exquisite lettering so I must save it.

The less said about the underframe the better, pretty execrable, although the wheels seem to be quite fine.

My first question was, do I have the bits I will need to rework the underframe?  Answer is yes :doublethumb


The main thing will be to replace the W irons with finer ones.  Those on the left are from Bill Bedford, obtained from Eileen's Emporium.

The WM axleboxes and J hangers are from Comet.

John

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I stripped the model.  Wheels were 12mm dia so not suitable.  I have some Gibson 14mm in my wheel box.

I spent some time today preparing wheels.

Something Bill Bedford said on another forum the other day got me thinking. He was talking about how the real thing copes with the center axle, which is to allow it to move from side to side. I have encountered many complicated ways to do this but his solution is very simple. Mount the wheels on a tube 22mm long for EM & P4 (20mm for 00) and insert a 26mm long steel rod. The rod goes in the pinpoint bearing.




It just so happens that the Gibson wheels have 1.5mm axles and, in my scrap box I had some brass tube that is a smidge over that. I also have some 0.032" steel wire (used for Tortoise actuators), which by a remarkable coincidence fits very nicely inside the tube :Happy




Here's the wheelset with the steel rod inserted. What a good do.

John


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I spent the day scratchbuilding a new underframe for the van.




I used Pro Weld to glue everything together - it seems to be very strong.  I wasn't certain because the plastic used by the manufacturers can be resistant to most solvents.

I kept the original solebars and made a new floor, this time in the correct position with 0.040" Evergreen sheet.  Buffer beams are Evergreen strip.

The coupling hook plate was taken from a MJT wagon compensation etch.

Buffers are also MJT and are designed to be sprung.  My experience in the past is that I muck the springing up, so we'll see.  As with so many things in this hobby the buffer bodies require some careful prep.  Holding the body with pliers I gently, with my thumb and forefinger, twirled a 1mm drill in the hole.  There's a small hole at the back and this was opened up with a 0.020" (0.5mm) drill.  The object is to get the buffer to slide in the body freely.  The reason for the different hole sizes is that a VERY tiny spring is captured between the buffer and body.  Drilling the 1mm hole too deeply will defeat the spring design.




I should add that when reviewing my info on 6 wheeled vans I came across a Model Rail article by George Dent that I had scanned.  The article discusses upgrading this and the GWR Palethorpes van (I've got one of these as well), in a similar fashion to my plan.  Unfortunately because I'm working in 8.5 x 11", the issue date was cut off.

John

Last edited on Sat Nov 2nd, 2013 08:26 pm by Brossard

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That dodge with the sliding centre wheel set is devilishly clever, John! If I ever get around to making my six-wheel imitation SECR coaches work again I'll try that - as it is, they use the old Triang bodge of fixed wheels (and I mean 'fixed' !) with the bottom of the flange filed flat to skim over the tops of the rails.

The whole conversion you are doing looks very interesting.

:cool:

Last edited on Wed Nov 6th, 2013 07:18 am by SRman

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This is really interesting
.I can vouch that this works having done a few 6 wheelers in EM like this.in one case all three axles move .The treated coaches all negotiate the 36 inch radius curves and turnouts in my fiddle yard and easily manage the larger radi1 in the layout itself.the other advantage is in the springing 010 guitar string. The disadvantage is that it is a bit fiddly and you get stabbed by bits of said guitar string!
weight in the vehicle helps about two ounces( 60g) seems enough for a Ratio cut and shut 6 wheel brake third.
 looking forward to next chapter.

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Thanks Jeff.  Clever but not my idea.  Bill Bedford's aftermarket kits all feature this sprung system and, as I said, it was he who mentioned the sliding axle the other day.  Also, George Dent used the same dodge.

Robber, I've been debating whether to allow the outer axle(s) to swivel.  I will do some trials to see what is best.  I have a 36" rad point on my test track.  I actually find assembling the laminated brakes more fiddly than the springing, although I have been stabbed in the past.  I was thinking that weight should be somewhere between 50g (goods wagon) and 100g (coach) - 80g was swirling around my head.

Stay tuned.

John

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The weight thing is a matter of trial and error , in my case anyway.I started off with 25g for a wagon and 50g for a four wheel then 60g for a six wheeler,and it works mostly.these just happened to be the weights i had. Ive no doubt that 50 and 80g is ok maybe better so I went to the fiddle yard and added 20g to the wagon on test and 20 to the test coach,both run better! so thank you for that .I,ll go with pinpoint bearings and 50g for wagon and 80 for coach.

best wishes
robberdoc

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I tend to add 2 seven gram weights to the bottoms of my 4-wheel Bachmann and Hornby wagons...I find that gives them just enough weight when empty to ride the rails reasonably solidly and very solidly when they have cargo in them. I think I checked and that gives open goods wagons pretty close to the extrapolated NMRA recommended weights based on their length...it certainly makes them ride better and gets rid of most of the model rocking one sees.

Last edited on Sun Nov 3rd, 2013 02:01 pm by Genetk44

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What does that do to the total weight Gene?  ISTR reading somewhere that 50g for a 4 wheeled wagon is the rule of thumb (and of course there will be differing opinions) with additional 10g per axle.  RTR coaches come in at around 100g, unmodified, which seems about right.

In any event, most RTR wagons, despite having installed weight, seem to be kind of light.

John

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It's been one of those 2 steps forward and 1 step back kind of days.  I managed to make up the W-irons, but it was the brakes that proved to be the most time consuming.  The brake folds up from the main fret to receive a folded over laminate to give the brake shoes some definition.  I got the bright idea to use a piece of brass wire through three holes in these etches to align everything.  Only after I'd soldered everything did I realise that I needed the holes to be open to receive the yokes.  So I spent a fair bit of time laboriously drilling out the brass wire.  It would have been better to use a fine broach (or something that won't solder) to align the holes while soldering...ah well, I really should have known better.

Anyway, the hard part is done:




You can see the progression of the W-irons.  I want to stress that you really need to use waisted bearings for these spring dooby dobs.  The cone will more easily slide inside the axlebox, the hole will require lengthening.

You can see the bearing holders with wire attached.  This is sharp!  My fingers are full of holes!

The W-iron assembly can be seen.  I found that it is best to fold up the W-iron part first.  If you have bending bars they are ideal, as it is I used flat head pliers and needle nose pliers to alternately fold the W-iron and then bend out the kinks from the distortion.  Brakes are a major fiddle as I mentioned.  Be careful to avoid bending the brakes until absolutely necessary, that half etch will fatigue and break very quickly.  Finally there's a reinforcing flange on the base that gets folded up and reinforced with solder.

The next W-iron has the bearing holders installed and finally we can see the wheel set installed.

I think that's the hard part done.

John

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It adds 14 grams of weight John....every litte bit helps,especially on things like empty coal wagons or other open types. I'm not at hoe but if I remember correctly it brigs the weight up pretty close to 50 grams, but I could be wrong .....

Last edited on Mon Nov 4th, 2013 04:38 am by Genetk44

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Another one of those back and forth days as we take this journey of discovery.:shock:

I carried out trials with the W iron assemblies installed.

First off, I found everything was too high, so I had to rebuild the underframe so I could mount the W irons flush with the tops of the solebars.

Next I spent time adjusting the bearing height so that at rest they sit about midway in the guide.  There's an etched mark.

Next, I found that there wasn't enough compensation with just the center axle sideplay, so I gave the outer axles a swivel and that seems to have done the trick.

The final result of today's work:




Sitting on the point crossing with plastiscene for weight.  Buffer height is about right as well.




Under the bonnet, not very pretty at this stage.

John

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Ah, a dough carrying wagon.  Good idea. :lol:

Terry

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Oooh! You are cheeky!  Been at it all day and now my brain hurts.

John

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Having lost my post on the Milk Van, I will reprint it, this time using Photobucket links:

Besides the picture (of 38550) shown in LMS Coaches by Essery and Jenkinson, there is one other picture (of 38551) in an article by Essery in LMS Journal 31.  This article also contains a works drawing of the brake rigging. 


I went down several dead ends and my sanity was severely tested on this build.  I won't bore you with that and simply cut to the chase.

Body:

Generally accurate but Hornby used their generic Palethorpes mould.  The ladder, platforms and ice hatch have to be removed and the roof filled and smoothed over.

Underframe:

I did a complete scratch build using Evergreen sheet and strip.


[/URL]

The heart of the underframe is a Slater's Cleminson chassis:

[/URL]

Not the most ideal choice, being designed for 00 and for their six wheeled MR coaches.  A better choice would have been a universal chassis such as Brassmasters (next time).  In the event, the only mod I had to make for EM was to detach the W irons and stick them to the solebars.  The wheelbase was, fortunately correct.

Wheels:

I thinned some Bachmann coach wheels to 2.2 - 2.3 mm.

I spent rather a long time detailing the underframe. The strategy for painting and assembling all the bits took a fair bit of thought.

So, here we are:

[/URL]

Here's a shot of the underside:

[/URL]

John

Last edited on Sun Dec 1st, 2013 08:18 pm by Brossard

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Ooer.... I want one... in N scale... sigh.... I won't be going to the same extent on the under frame though.... I respect my level of sanity to much (see what I did there?) :lol:
Superb work John.
cheersMarty

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Lovely job John,
Catching uo on our server problem.
Thinning the Bachman wheels is a good idea for EM.
I think the loco wheels will need a similar treatment for the conversion.
regards,
Derek.

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Thanks guys.  I've no idea how one would do such a thing in N Marty.  I hope you show us if your mental health is up to it.

Derek, thinning the coach wheels wasn't difficult.  As we discussed, thinning 00 loco wheels might be a way forward.  Wonder why I haven't heard of it being done before.

John

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Hi John,
Most likely its considered a lathe job to get an accurate wheel.
I had a disater that damn spring on the jinty centre axle flew into orbit. Hunted high and low but no luck.
I suppose I will have to contact Bachman and try to get some spares?.
regards,
Derek.

PS: If I can find some very fine wire I could make a spring?

Last edited on Mon Dec 2nd, 2013 09:46 pm by shunter1

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Derek, I shouldn't have thought that accuracy was a particular concern when thinning the back of the wheel - nice to get things as close as you can but a few thou here or there isn't going to matter.  I wouldn't tackle anything pertaining to concentricity.

Bachmann are (or were) pretty good on the support side.  They've sent me stuff FOC in the past to correct problems of my own making.  I don't know what the spring looks like but won't it need some special spring steel?

John

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I agree John about the wheels, Although I own a lathe so its no big deal for me.
I found some springy thin wire and fixed the problem.
I am going to use gibson wheels and axles.
I ran a 1/8th reamer through the chassis axle holes keeping
the same line for the axle tops as Bachmans model.
Infact you will notice on the Bachman chassis little metal pips on the axle slots, These are what need opening out a little to accomadate 1/8th full axles.
I ran the edge of a file on the gear axle where the gear slides on, This holds the gear in place,nicely, the metal being a little rough on that spot.
Anyway I shall let you have your workbench back.

regards,
Derek.

Last edited on Mon Dec 2nd, 2013 11:44 pm by shunter1

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Well done Derek!  I think as long as the reamer cuts, you will maintain concentricity.  It's when you try to ream that strange plastic that concentricity problems arise.  Something to store away.

Glad you sorted your spring.

Something I proved again today - the usefulness of jewellers rouge.  I have a stick and used it successfully to rub out the scratches on the body from where I removed the van number.  I used a fiber pen because car paint rubbing compound (T cut?) didn't work.

Today, I was tinkering with the van and while it ran fairly freely, it wasn't as free as I would like.  I scraped some flakes of rouge from the stick and mixed it with some oil to make a paste.  I daubed this on the axle bearings and voila! things started running more freely almost immediately.  This paste is also useful for bedding in new gearboxes - I got the idea from the Comet site where there are some very handy things in the download section, including a piece on quietening Portescap gearboxes.

John

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Good thinking John,
That jeweller's rouge looks useful.
Just maybe that wire you used for the axle's is catching slightly in the bearing cups. It might be flexing a little?
Pity that gibson use 1.5mm axle's. The Bachman 2mm axle jobs are lovely runner's If one could get EM they would be perfect for good running. Okay they are probably a little over scale 6inch dia against 4.5 inch dia.

regards,
Derek.

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Yes, the rouge is definitely worth having if you can get it.  I got mine I don't know how many years ago at an auto parts store which had all sorts of interesting tools.

The van fair whizzes along the track now, very pleased. :pathead

The Bachmann wheels weren't difficult to thin and now they're to the EM spec.  The only downside I discovered yesterday is that the flanges are 0.68mm thick.  Fortunately, the van goes through my point OK.  :doublethumb

In the future I'll take a bit off the back first.  Alaways learning.

John

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Hi John its been awhile since I posted in your thread.
Great to see you have the Bachman wheels under control.
I have just received a parcel containing axle steel rods.
So I can start experimenting with the lathe.
Still involved with clearing the decks for the baseboard extensions. Then I can get down to serious track making and laying.Which will lead to loco builds.
All the best,
Derek.

PS:Amazon stock that Jeweller,s Rouge. So no problem getting it.

Last edited on Thu Jan 16th, 2014 10:22 pm by shunter1

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It's been a while for me too. I'm having trouble getting back into it. The holidays can be very disruptive.

I've been watching the goings on in your thread, a very ambitious project - almost rivalling Retford.

Cheers
John

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Hi John, Hope your energy for railways gets a boost soon.
Yes my build seems a tad ambitious. Just working out the finished board surface length. 98 feet taking in the end room loop. I guess it will keep me occupied untill I hit the buffer,s.Buildings will be kits some altered a little to save time. Loco,s and rolling stock will certainly eat up the time spent on the build.
Retford John, Thats a new one on me?
cheer,s,
Derek.

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Well, the holidays are one thing, but having just got a new all singing and all dancing computer doesn't help either. I've been playing my favourite game for all hours on it.

The difference is remarkable and soooo much better than the old one.

Retford: I did a search but didn't get anything really definitive. The layout is Roy Jackson's magnum opus in EM gauge. It's been featured several times in MRJ but I haven't heard anything recently.

John

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Oh dear, Gameing John.
Very addictive my friend, Spent 5 years modding Total War games. Taking a year out to recover.
Thanks for letting me know about Roy jackson's railway.
cheers,
Derek.

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Now there's a coincidence, I'm playing Empire - Total War. For me the Total War games are ideal. Never got into modding though. Indeed they are very addictive.

John

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I had the priviledge of seeing Roy Jackson's layout 'in the flesh' last year. It is absolutely stunning.

Last edited on Wed Jan 22nd, 2014 03:38 pm by Super D

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Thanks Super D, it's good to know that it is still active. I hope that an update on the layout is published soon.

John

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Brossard wrote: Now there's a coincidence, I'm playing Empire - Total War. For me the Total War games are ideal. Never got into modding though. Indeed they are very addictive.

John


:) For myself. Rome Total War useing the Alexander extension to build a Rome based mod.:).

However if I get back into it the railway will die. So going cold turkey on that hobby untill the railway is well under way.

Cheers,

Derek.

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Well, you're not wrong there. I hope to get it out of my system. I've had my eye on Rome 2, now I've got a new machine, I should be able to play that.

John

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Well, having been thoroughly sated playing DarthMod Empire and Napoleon, I hope I can get back to work.  I thought I'd start by converting some vehicles that I bought recently to EM. 

First up, the Hornby CCT or, as LMS called it, Motor Car Van.  I didn't take a picture before starting work but it can be seen here:

http://www.ehattons.com/60265/Hornby_R6640_LMS_4_Wheel_CCT_Van_New_tooling_for_2013/StockDetail.aspx

The colour seemed strange to me as most NPCS vehicles were painted maroon.  This is obviously bauxite.  However, I found a picture of one of these when fairly new and the caption describes the colour as indeed being bauxite (or undercoat).

This van is quite good but the underframe detail is lacking and not up to the standard set by the GWR horsebox from a couple of years ago.

The other thing I noticed was the axles seem sloppy in their bearings.  The van runs OK, but I really don't think this sloppiness is acceptable.  My guess/speculation is that this is a feature to allow the van to negotiate 15" rad. curves.

So, here goes.

The first order of business was to re gauge the wheels.  To my eye the wheels are pretty fine and the flange looks quite thin.  To start I yanked on the the wheel of an axle and off it came leaving the plastiuc bush behind.  Bu**er! I thought.  My solution was to use cyano to secure the wheel to the bush.  The other wheel on the axle is not insulated and I couldn't shift it by hand.

I used a wheel puller to move the the two wheels out to the correct gauge.  
I confirmed that the re gauged wheels run nicely through the test point with about 0.5mm sideplay. 

I should mention that getting body off the underframe isn't difficult since it is simply clipped.  A sharp knife inserted into the underframe/body join will allow you to prise it apart. 

Next, of course, the brakes need looking at.  These, helpfully, are separate components which pop out fairly readily.  There was some carving required to ensure they could be repositioned. 

I removed the brake gear and levers - all plastic and in so doing broke the vee hangers.  I decided to re-do that in brass, as you will see. 

I also nibbled away at the NEM coupling box to remove it since I want to use scale head Kadees.

I glued plastic sheets to the inside of the underframe to give me something to mount the brakes to.




To correct the sloppiness of the axles I decided to use waisted pinpoint bearings.  I used my Truck Tuner for this:

[url=http://www.micromark.com/HO-Truck-Tuner,8241.html ]http://www.micromark.com/HO-Truck-Tuner,8241.html [/url]

This opened up the plastic recess to accept the bearings.  These were glued in and wheels installed.  As expected, they were tight.  The solution was:

a)  Thin the back of the axlebox to the extent that the bearing flange was removed (the wheel hub is quite close to the axle box) and
b) Use the tuner to open out/adjust the brass bearings
I got the wheels turning freely after all that.

Next I turned my attention the brake rigging.  Using LMS Journal as a guide, I used brass wire (0.020") and parts from Mainly Trains' very useful brake etches.



The fore and aft rodding would connect the brake yokes so that, as the vacuum piston moves towards the floor, the double crank pulls and exerts the force to apply the brakes.  I added a vacuum pipe from copper wire. 

In preparation for brake installation, I added a 0.060" plastic strip insert to the cavities for the wheels.

John

PS, I'm using Chrome (which I don't like)  to post this.  Using IE11 (I have Win7) I couldn't upload pictures and the formatting was all ahoo.

Last edited on Sat Apr 26th, 2014 02:03 am by Brossard

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Nice one John,
Good to see you have recovered from game mania!!!
I tried IE11 and gave it up and went back to version 10 with windows7.
all the best,
Derek.

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Thanks Derek, not sure if "recovered" is the right word - I could relapse at any moment.


Also not sure about my IE version, I assume I have the latest which I think is IE11.  I had a load of problems with IE on my XP machine so I'm disappointed to find that problems still exist, not only here but on RMWeb too.


John

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Most of these problems seem to vanish when using Firefox John,don't know if that's of any help to you.

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I don't much like Firefox either Alan - I find managing bookmarks with this and Chrome to be a great faff.  I think my comfort zone is with IE.  Next time I post I may try Firefox.


John

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I got the underframe mods mostly done today:


I installed safety loops on the pull rods and brake rods using 0.020" wire.  The brake rods are a simplification and should really be yokes.  However, yokes are a fiddle (as if the other stuff isn't!) and, once installed the wheels cannot be removed.

Brake levers and ratchets are from the Mainly Trains etch.  One thing to note is the brake on the cylinder side is cammed in order that the rotation is in the right direction when the lever is pulled.

Kadees are scale head and you will note that I have removed the trip pins.

Reference for the rigging is LMS Journal 31 which includes a reproduced works drawing for an LMS 21' underframe.

John

Last edited on Fri May 2nd, 2014 10:06 pm by Brossard

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Today I painted the Motor Car Van underframes.  While the paint was drying I made a start on my two Bachmann ex-Midland brakes.  I have the LMS grey version and the bauxite version.  Bachmann modelled the brake gear correctly (as far as I can tell) and, to their credit, made provision for two distinct brake designs.  The grey van is vacuum brake fitted while the bauxite van is not.  I was concerned at first at the lack of a vacuum cylinder but discovered that the cylinder was inside the van on the prototype.

A quick look and it seemed to me that the brake shoes are not quite in line with the wheels.  I did a check and found that re-gauged wheels to EM will fit nicely between the shoes.

The bauxite van can be seen here:

http://www.ehattons.com/52713/Bachmann_Branchline_38_553_Midland_20T_Brake_Van_LMS_Bauxite_without_Duckets_/StockDetail.aspx

I couldn't find the grey van.

As I always do I stripped the vans, removing the bodies and carefully removing the brakes and rigging.  I got this out mostly intact only breaking a tab on one of the brakes.  The brakes have to be drilled to accept a cross rod and this can't be done with them on the van.

There's a screw nub for securing the NEM pockets (removed by taking out the screw) and this was removed by Xuron and a bit of grinding and scraping.  I will be fitting scale head Kadees.

The wheels were fairly easy to remove and have plastic bushes.  I measured the wheels which came to 2.7 mm thick.  I wanted 2.5mm and a thinner flange so removed 0.1mm from the back and another 0.1mm from the front.  The hard part of this was getting the bushes out.



The state of play so far, wheels blackened and regauged.
John

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I re-assembled the Motor Car Vans and added weight to bring them to about 70 gms.

I also completed the underframe work on the brakes by adding safety loops and rods across the brake shoes.



Again there should be a yoke instead of a rod at the brakes.

The objective is that for normal viewing, there is the impression of gubbins.

Scale head Kadees are fitted as well.

Reference is Midland Record Suppl #2 - Midland Railway Wagons.  This book contains a number of reproductions of MR works drawings for common goods vehicles.  Very useful.

John

Last edited on Mon May 5th, 2014 07:45 pm by Brossard

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Finally brought these 4 vehicles to completion today.  I weathered them and added lamps to the brakes.

Motor Car Van:


I think I achieved my main object with the underframe brake rigging detail.  It looks suitably busy.  Note that I also added through steam pipes.  These vans would be capable of running in passenger trains, carrying the cars of well to do passengers.

A look underneath:


Brakes:



All my hard work isn't at all obvious from this angle.  The grey fitted brake has a single central red tail lamp.  The bauxite unfitted vehicle also has a red tail lamp and white side lamps each side. (In BR days, brakes were standardized:  grey were unfitted and bauxite fitted or through piped.)
 
Underneath:



The main job was to add safety loops for the brake rodding.

John

Last edited on Mon May 12th, 2014 10:06 pm by Brossard

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They look awesome John...right up to your usual high standards indeed..now where are you going to run them????:mrgreen:

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Thank you Gene.  You are right, I do need a layout but all in good time.


John

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They look great, John.  :thumbs

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I've been doing a blitz on PO Wagons and others lately and will show these after I finish painting.  In the meantime I decided to have a go at upgrading the ancient Hornby 20T LMS Brake van.  Lord knows how long I've had these (3) but I think they were among the first I bought 20 odd years ago.



To be honest, even by today's standards, I can't see a whole lot wrong with this model.  The body, even with moulded handrails still looks good and I don't plan to do anything to it.

The underframe is chunky, being moulded from plastic and lacks any kind of brake detail.  Comparing the model to photos in Essery's LMS Wagons, Vol. 1,  the model is accurate.

The scope of the project is to replace the Hornby underframe with an etched replacement by Bill Bedford.  These are available from Eileen's Emporium and, I think, a great way, if pricey,  to upgrade your wagons.  There are lots of different kits and bits & bobs, so it's definitely worth a look.

One disappointment with the kit is lack of instructions.  I've read elsewhere that Bill is somewhat notorious for this.  Lately he seems to have had a change of heart, since other kits of his that I have done (see page 1 of this thread), have come with instructions.

For me, having had experience with building kits like this, and having access to photos, the main structure is not too mysterious.
I started with the solebars which went together well enough:



It's here that I found later that I had gone slightly wrong.

1)  There are two holes above each of the W irons for grab handles.  The handles, formed from wire should have gone on at this time.

2)  The short steps have a half etched line and should have been removed.  A notch is needed at each corner for the end stepboard struts.

3)  There are 4 half etched pieces (two bolt strap) which go, as I only realized too late, at each corner of the the solebar.
Next, I joined the solebars to the floor and assembled the sprung bearing units.



A trial run through the test point showed that the chassis is free running and smooth.

Next some detailing:



Brakes are fold up etches.  These were positioned using the wheels as a jig.  There really should be yokes connecting the brake shoes but then, you can't get the wheels out.  I joined the brakes with some wire instead.  I also made the safety loops from wire.  The center brake actuator is a nice fold up affair.  Brake rodding is wire again.

Final detail involves fitting the lower stepboards:



Stepboards are a darned fiddle, what with getting the struts on straight and then getting the boards on.:twisted:

As I mentioned earlier the corners caused me some grief.  I made new short steps from scrap brass.

There are distinctive triangular brackets on the solebar.  The kit provides some fold up strips for this job but I couldn't, for the life of me get them to work.  I will chop some plasticard to shape and fit these later.

Next step is to give the assembly a vinegar bath overnight.  This will etch the brass and solder and brighten things up.  Makes paint stick better too.

I have buffers on order so final painting will have to wait for those.

John

Last edited on Fri May 23rd, 2014 10:17 pm by Brossard

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Finished my PO wagon blitz by weathering with my airbrush.





Nothing particularly special.  They are re gauged to EM and scale head Kadees added.  I used Exactoscale underframe kits on four of these - only because I've had them in for a long time and wanted to see what they were like.  These are supposed to be sprung but I couldn't see that working so I made them rigid. 
 



I also used Exactoscale wheels on these.  They are quite lovely with very fine spoke detail.  Trouble is they are also quite fragile having plastic centers so are very prone to distortion.



I think from normal viewing angles and distances, the extra work is wasted.  One pair of wagons has just the wheels re-gauged and nothing else.  I only noticed after doing all that work, that the brake shoes are out of line with the wheels for 00 but are just about spot on for EM.  Wonder if Bachmann are actually thinking about the EM crowd?  :hmm


John

Last edited on Sat May 24th, 2014 06:28 am by Brossard

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Nothing special, but convincing nonetheless, John.  :thumbs

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Cheers Max and thanks.  I keep hoping that folk will be inspired to go that little extra distance.  Not as far as EM perhaps but baby steps in getting their models looking unique. 
John

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A couple shots of some other wagons:





The van is Bachmann from a few years ago.  I removed that awful clunky NEM pocket and installed scale head Kadees instead.

The coal wagon is Hornby.  This didn't have NEM pockets but that is moot since upon examination I deemed the underframe to be unacceptable having moulded brake gear and "flat" detail.  Instead I used a donor underframe from the hopelessly wrong Bachmann LMS cattle wagon. (I bought a bunch of these in my more naive days before realising that the real thing was quite a bit longer.)  I did look the coal wagon up in my Essery and it looks to be accurate.  I didn't find any pictures of it as Loco Coal though.

I seem to have got the Kadee length about spot on because the buffers just kiss when the wagons are being propelled through the point.

John

Last edited on Sun May 25th, 2014 12:17 am by Brossard

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:):)Lovely models John.

Its good to see your rolling stock fleet expanding.

Thanks for shareing.

Derek.

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Very good to hear from you Derek.  I'm trying to strike while the mood is on me.  Stay tuned.


John

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Looking very good indeed John.

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Right, back to the brake van.  I received the buffers (and a load of other neat stuff) from Lanarkshire Models & Supplies ( http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/index.html ) yesterday so I wanted to progress the build.



Very nearly finished now I think.

Buffers have been fixed with cyano.

I was concerned that the lower stepboard was quite flimsy and kept bending if you looked at it.  I reinforced the hangers by soldering 0.020" wire to the backs - this made a big difference to the stiffness.

You'll note that the axlebox/springs have been installed.  I salvaged these from the Hornby underframe.

I also added the triangular struts to the solebar.  I made these from plastic strip, using a jig for the correct angle and my NWSL Chopper.  These were attached with cyano.

I learned long ago to take things slow and steady so my projects take some time.

John

Last edited on Thu Jun 5th, 2014 10:53 pm by Brossard

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Last evening I primed the underframe:



Almost a shame to paint it.

John

Last edited on Fri Jun 6th, 2014 10:32 pm by Brossard

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It is, John.  The primer looks very convincing.  :thumbs

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Final stretch now for the brake upgrade.  The underframe has been painted and the body:



The body has had weight added by removing the roof.  The roof is well glued on and I broke the top bar on both ends getting it off.  A bit of glue and some plastic strip got things repaired.  Weight is around 60 gms.

I did mull over re-doing the paint and lettering of the body but decided against it.  I will weather it and that should make things look a bit better.

Just another shot of the underside:




Being black it doesn't show up all that well.

John

Last edited on Sat Jun 7th, 2014 08:36 pm by Brossard

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Now, a change of pace.  The Chivers LMS Double Bolster:







It looks fairly simple and I shall build it pretty much out of the packet.  I'm sure there will be sighs of relief at this.  Note the pack of etched coupling hooks and whitemetal buffers.  The kit includes adapters for NEM pockets but I shan't use those.



No wheels in the kit so you'll have to get some yourself.  I will use three hole 3' (12mm) diameter wheels.  Both Hornby and Bachmann sell these I believe.



John
The sharp eyed amongst you may have noticed a sparcity of bits in the photo.  As I started to build, I realised with a jolt that everything above the solebars is missing!  No sides, ends or buffer beams.  No bolsters either. 


So much for my relaxed build, now I'll have to do a partial scratch build.  Fortunately I have Bob Essery's LMS Wagon Drawings and LMS Wagons so I think I've got the required info.  I already cut and scribed the sides and ends and found a pair of buffer beams in my scrap box.










Last edited on Sat Jun 7th, 2014 11:12 pm by Brossard

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It looks really good, John.  The lumpy black paint on the chassis rails looks very convincing.  :thumbs

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Lumpy black?  I thought the finish was a nice smooth satin.
:hmm

John

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It might just be my screen, John.  I can see rivet heads and some other shapes under the paint, which all look very lifelike.

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So, I spent some time applying the strap and plate detail to the bolster wagon.



I thought I'd show just how useful Essery's book is.  Lots of piccies and the sketch is drawn to 4mm/foot.

Sides are Evergreen strip, with the lower plank (?) scribed using my Olfa carpet cutter, aka scrawker.

Reinforcing straps and corner plates are likewise Evergreen.  I have a ton of the stuff and it really comes in handy.

I also have some Archer rivet transfers that I plan to use later.

I even found a pair of etched works plates in my bits box.

John

Last edited on Sun Jun 8th, 2014 04:44 am by Brossard

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Oh that - those are etched rivet details.  You had me going for a minute.

The solebars are laminated from a full thickness piece and half etched detailed piece, both of which are sweated together.

John

Last edited on Sun Jun 8th, 2014 04:46 am by Brossard

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It's worth the effort, John.  :thumbs

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OK, I think we're done with the brake van:






Weathering improves the appearance no end I think.

My method?  Pretty simple really.  I airbrush an earth or dirt colour on the underframe and partway up the sides.  I do spray ever so lightly the top.  The roof gets a stripe of dirt because some of the smoke from the loco will settle there.

Following that, I airbrush black over what I just did.  This tones down the dirt.

I used shaved pastel (in a mix of orange, umber and black) to highlight the solebars and axleboxes.

I painted the buffers aluminum and then followed with dry brushed oily black.  I also dry brushed oily black on the axleboxes.
Now on to the next project.

Lamps are for unfitted goods.

John

Last edited on Mon Jun 9th, 2014 12:01 am by Brossard

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A little more progress on the double bolster today.  The basic wagon is done, I just have to do the bolsters:





I made the brake safety loops and brake lever ratchet from bits on the Mainly Trains brake etches.

I initially grabbed some Bachmann 3 hole wheels but, on fitting the brakes, found they were just a bit too tight.  I installed Exactoscale wheels instead.  I like these so much I ordered another 20 (and don't forget the axles - they're separate) from C&L today.

Buffers and coupling hooks are included in the kit.

John

Last edited on Tue Jun 10th, 2014 12:51 am by Brossard

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A quickie project is this D1890 Brake Van.  It is made from an ancient Chivers brass kit.  I bought two at an estate sale probably over 20 years ago.  These then sat in a box for several years until I got around to doing them.  I built both in 00 and my recollection is that they were fairly easy to do - being mostly a folded up box.  I also remember having to scratchbuild the brake gear which turned out nicely.

Over the last couple of days, I stripped out the old brakes, simplified the underframe, re gauged the wheels, installed new brakes and painted the underframe.  This morning I weathered it:



This model represents one of the final batch that were through pipe fitted.  They were able to work fitted freights while not actually being vacuum fitted themselves.  The appropriate lamp for fitted freight is a central red tail lamp.  The vacuum hose is red because I read somewhere that there was code for these - white for vacuum fitted, red for through piped.

John

Last edited on Wed Jun 11th, 2014 07:19 pm by Brossard

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Another quickie conversion project.  Notwithstanding my rant about Dapol wagons, I thought these were acceptable.



Lettering is beautifully done, moulding is crisp and overall it is good looking wagon.  My only beef and the thing that did give me pause is the moulded brake gear, but, from this angle you can't tell.

This was to be a simple conversion.




The first thing to do was to get rid of the appalling NEM pocket.  The tension locks droop so badly I doubt they would work.
A simple matter of snipping and filing to give me a smooth surface.

The next job was the wheels.  The Dapol wheels had a tyre width of 2.8mm and a flange width of about 0.75mm (difficult to measure because the flange is angled).

An important consideration with wheels is side to side clearance.  Nominally this should be 0.5mm in 00 and EM. (P4 is another kettle of fish).  You can try this yourself by taking out a wheelset, putting it on the track and moving it side to side.  You should feel quite a bit of movement.  This clearance becomes quite important on points, particularly at the crossing (or vee and knuckle) area.  You should be able to feel the same clearance through the point and if there is anyplace that doesn't have clearance, this is where derailments will occur.

The first thing to check whenever you have a derailing vehicle is the back to back (measurement from the back of one wheel to the back of the other).  In 00 I always set 14.5mm (and others may have differing opinions).  The DCC Concepts back to back gauge is a good accurate product.  It is a good idea to check the back to backs of your wheels and not rely on the factory to do it right.

If you want to get into this in more detail, check this out:

http://www.doubleogauge.com/

Now, for EM the back to back is 16.5mm.

The thing is, in EM (and 00 Finescale too), flangeways are 1mm (00 flangeways in Peco points are somewhat greater than this). Having flanges at 0.75mm, seriously eats into any clearance you have on points.

00 Finescale calls for a flange of 0.68mm and EM for a flange of 0.54mm.

So anyway, some people reckon they can use RTR wheels for EM and they've posted videos as proof.  However, I go back to my engineering background and say that that is all very well but you're probably on the giddy limit of tolerance and it is not best practice.

Purists will say that you must use EM spec wheels.

I am in the pragmatic category and say, I'll use the RTR wheels but modify them to be close to the EM spec.
The tools for this are a big old coarse file, a small fine file and a digital caliper. 

I start by removing the wheels from their axles and measuring the overall width, 2.8mm as stated above.  Then I try to get the flange thickness and, in this case it was around 0.75mm.

So, I file the back of the wheel and keep checking until the width is 2.6mm - making the flange 0.55mm thick (I'm not super precise and there are hundredths of a mm differences).

Then I turn the wheel over and file the front, until I have a thickness of 2.3mm.  Now I should add that, while I consider the flange thickness a "critical" dimension, the tyre width is "optional".  The only limitation is that, when the wheels are pulled out to EM, the front of the wheel may foul with the axlebox.  Thinning the axlebox is an option.

Once that's done I use the fine file to break the edge of the flange and give it a slight bevel.  I also break the edge of the front of the tyre.

At this point you are done and have a bunch of nice shiny wheels.  I like to do one last step and that is to chemically blacken them.  I think the active chemical is Selenium Dioxide (with a skull and crossbones on the bottle).  I got some from my local hobby shop and I know that C&L sell it under the Carr`s brand.

Here`s a comparison shot of a pair of Dapol wheelsets:



Right so, to get back to the wagons.

My idea is to have have pairs of wagons, one being full and the other being empty.  An issue with these wagons is that there is no interior detail:



I tried to remedy this by inserting a 0.010`piece of card scribed with the door shape:



I then thinned the tops of both wagons.  As they`re supposed to be steel, 1mm (the plastic thickness) converts to 3".
The interiors were painted with red oxide primer.

I fitted scale head Kadees to the underframes, playing around until I got a nice close coupled look.  Notice how these couplings are unobtrusive.

Finished:



I noticed somewhat to my dismay that the masking tape took off some of the lettering.  Not to worry, I still have the load to install and weathering to do.

John

Last edited on Fri Jun 13th, 2014 03:40 am by Brossard

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It took a morning's work to convert these two Bachmann wagons to EM:



The longest and most tedious part of the job was reworking the wheels as described above.

I had to remove the ribs inside of the axleboxes and thin a couple of brake shoes.

The scale head Kadees were dead easy to fit.  I removed the NEM pockets by taking out the retaining screw.  I then filed the area for the coupling flat so that it was flush with the bufferbeam.  I added a piece of 0.010" strip to the indentation in teh underframe and filed that flush.

I simply glued the Kadees on with plastic cement.  The only trick is to position the knuckle so that coupling distance is minimised while allowing the wagons to be propelled through the point without trouble.

John

Last edited on Sat Jun 14th, 2014 12:12 am by Brossard

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I had great fun last evening putting coal loads in my PO wagons.  I decided this time to construct plasticard carriers shaped so that they should be removable.  I'll take a picture of that once the glue finally dries (assuming I can get them out).

Here's the two Bachmann wagons:



I have about a pound of real coal - a lifetimes supply I think.

I coated the plastic carrier initially with contact cement and put a layer of coal on that.  I then put the carrier in the wagon.  

Next I put down a layer of neat glue (Woodland Scenics in this case [amazed it still works since I've had it ages]) and poured coal over that.

I got myself some water mixed with handsoap and added some glue to foil tart tin, mixing it with water until it was runny.  I used a pipette to decant the funny glue onto the coal.  This soaked in and helped to distribute the glue throughout the coal.

I finished off by adding more neat glue and placing individual lumps of medium coal over the top with tweezers.

For the empty I wanted to represent some residual coal.  I used a fine brush to apply runny glue to the inside corners allowing it to flow around.  I then dumped in some fine coal and shook the wagon to get things to settle.  The excess was pored back into my coal bowl.  This morning, when the glue had dried I used a broad brush to remove the loose coal and rub it in a bit.

The picture came out dark so I used Picasa to lighten it.

I was gutted when I examined the wagon on the left to find that the top hinge rod had vanished.  The rod on the rightmost wagon was loose but I secured it with cyano.

I repaired the wagon as follows:

1)  cut some lengths of 0.010" x 0.040" Evergreen strip.

2)  glue these to the wagon as shown.

3)  when the glue has hardened cut some 1mm long strips of 0.020" plastic rod and glue to the strip above the wagon door.  These will act as spacers.  Yes, it is fiddly and I had more than one piece ping away into the darker recesses of my basement.

4)  Use cyano to attach a piece of wire, allow to set.  Overnight is best.

5)  Trim the excess plastic strip and dress with a fine file.

6)  Carefully (not like me) brush on primer.  I picked up some tins of Humbrol grey primer at my hobby shop the other day.

7)  Paint with a colour that closely matches (I don't worry at all since weathering will disguise my sins) the wagon body colour.


BTW, while looking on the floor for something (a place where I spend a lot of my modelling time), I found the prodigal hinge.  I used it to repair another wagon that had lost its' hinge.

John

Last edited on Sat Jun 14th, 2014 07:45 pm by Brossard

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More fun today weathering wagons.  I did a good job of weathering myself too.

The two Bolsover wagons are done:



Also the Loco Coal:



As I mentioned before I airbrush earth, then black using acrylic paint (that way it will come off if I don't like it).  I then go around using powders (earth, black, rust) to highlight things.  Those areas that might see wear like buffer heads and coupling hooks get highlighted with a silver pencil.

John

Last edited on Sun Jun 15th, 2014 12:36 am by Brossard

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I like very much what you have done with the brake van and particularly the underframe. I have been pondering what the best thing to do with my SECR van's lower footboards is (started in my workbench thread last year). Yours gives me hope I might be able to get something workable going.

Excellent work, John. I am looking forward to more inspirations from your posts! :)

Last edited on Sun Jun 15th, 2014 05:49 pm by SRman

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Glad to know that you are taking inspiration what my efforts Jeff.  Keep up the modelling.


John

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A bit more progress on the double bolster:



I made the bolsters from plastic strip and the loops from 0.31mm phosphor bronze wire.  Uprights are 0.032" brass wire.
John

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The bolster is in the paintshop for primer.  While that's drying I got with weathering the Crane & Co. wagons.  This is actually my second attempt.  First time around, the paint didn't seem to want to stick and I frankly think I overdid the weathering.  So, I sprayed some ammonia based window cleaner (Windex here) on them and hey presto, the paint and powder came right off.

Today, I sprayed the wagons with dullcote, hoping that this will give the paint something to key to.



I weathered with a lighter touch to try to maintain some legibility.  Better I think.

John

Last edited on Sun Jun 15th, 2014 11:55 pm by Brossard

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All looking excellent John. The thing I really hate about the Dapol wagons are those damn drooping NEM pockets...why they can't seem to fix this issue is beyond me!

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I'm sure the fix is probably easy Gene, but since I will never use them, I haven't applied my leetle grey cells to the matter.


John

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Yesterday I got out my Chivers D2069 LMS Long Low Wagon kit:



All present and correct this time.

What a joy these kits are.  :doublethumbAs you see the moulding is crisp and there is just a touch of flash here and there.  Fit is excellent but, of course, a bit of filing here and there helps.

After a couple of sessions I got this:




Of course, being me, I added some brass bits in the form of makers plates, safety loops and brake lever ratchets. :cool wink
The wheels were salvaged from the ill fated Hornby wagon.

I used household solder glued underneath for weight - it's around 50g.  Those red marks are from weathering powder on my workbench. :It's a no no 

John

Last edited on Mon Jun 16th, 2014 07:56 pm by Brossard

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Chivers D1675 LMS Tube Wagon



Not quite a days work to finish construction:



Exactoscale EM 3 hole wheels were used.

John

Last edited on Tue Jun 17th, 2014 12:26 am by Brossard

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Here's another quickie that I did while paint was drying on other wagons.  The Bachmann GWR Crocodile.  Even though it's not of the true faith, I thought it such a good model that I had to convert it to EM.



The lettering is superb and in places where you might not expect.  It must be quite an old model because the wheels were of the split axle type - these were consigned to the bin.  I chose some more modern Bachmann 3 hole wheels.  These were reworked and re-gauged in the usual manner.  When done, they clipped back into the bogies and that was it.

As usual, I fitted a medium shank, scale head Kadee.  There is a rod that stretches from one brake lever to the other.  This was removed so I could mount the Kadee.  The rod was reinstated  with 0.020" brass wire.

John

Last edited on Wed Jun 18th, 2014 05:46 am by Brossard

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Yesterday I made some very good progress on the Chivers kits.

I applied Archer bolt heads to the "ironwork" of the part scratchbuilt double bolster.  Very fiddly and I had to use my magnifiers.:shock:   This was done a bit at a time to allow the transfers to set.  Nothing worse than having laboriously applied transfers being dislodged because of impatience.  With the paint on I can just see them, so quite a subtle effect.

I painted the wagon bodies with Polly S Undercoat Light Grey (which I might have added some black to, I forget).  Underframe ironwork is Tamiya flat black.



Now the decking, that's the challenge here.  It should be natural wood (not brown!) and I had to determine how to do that.
 Now, I distinctly recall that someone here did a posting to show how to do natural wood - could I find it?  Could I he**.:brickwall

So a broader search and inspiration struck as someone mentioned Martin Welch's Art of Weathering.  Hang on, I said, I have that book!  Sure enough, Martin describes the process.

What did I do?

Martin recommends application of three colours - earth, grey and black.  These are initially brushed and the colours mixed at random on the model while still wet.  I used acrylics for this.

When dry, the wagon floors needed distressing and faux woodgrain created, since the model floors are plain.  I did this by gluing a small rectangle of medium sandpaper to the end of a piece of balsa and rubbing the deck.  This scratched things up something terrible but it does look a bit like woodgrain.

Next Martin tells the reader to use the same colours drybrushed on, light to dark.  For this I used Humbrol enamels.  I love acrylics but IMO they don't do well at drybrushing (a revelation that came to me when watching Geoff Taylor drybrush a building with Humbrol - http://www.model-railway-dvd.co.uk/right_track7.php ).  I think the problem is that acrylic is quite runny (this is what makes it good for brush painting surfaces) and dries quickly.  Humbrol enamel is quite sticky and remains workable for some time.  So anyway, what you see is the result of that process.  I think it looks pretty good.

I sprayed the sides of the wagons with Glosscote last night in preparation for transfers today. :roll:

John

Last edited on Wed Jun 18th, 2014 06:15 pm by Brossard

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Now this goes to show the dangers inherent in assuming.  I assumed all the wagons were grey.  However, when I got my Essery Wagons out again, about to apply transfers I discovered that the long low wagon had been outshopped new unpainted.  Rats! I said, well I didn't, but the word did have 4 letters.

So, back to the paint shop.  I rubbed off some of the grey paint with my fiberglass pen.  I then used my sandpaper stick to put some approximation of woodgrain on the sides.  I then followed the process described earlier, only with less black.  I touched up the ironwork grey (this is a guess).



Now, to letter it.

John

Last edited on Wed Jun 18th, 2014 10:30 pm by Brossard

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Well, I'm glad that's over!  Transfers are done!

Here are the wagons in ex works condition:

Double Bolster:



I'm pleased that, after all that bother, the bolt heads are actually visible.  Lettering copied off a pic in Essery's LMS Wagons.

Tube Wagon:



Again, taken from a photo in Essery.

Finally, Long Low wagon:



Not sure about how my attempt to have unpainted sides turned out.  :hmm  This time there wasn't a photo in Essery of the wagon in LMS guise so this is a bit of a guess based on a similar wagon.

Anyway, these won't stay ex-works for long, weathering tomorrow.

John

Last edited on Thu Jun 19th, 2014 04:54 am by Brossard

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Excellent, as per usual, John.  :thumbs

You must be getting quite a collection now.

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Thanks, yes Max, I have a boxfull of wagons now.  I'm not going to be able to put off doing the layout much longer.


John

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Spent some time today repositioning the long low wagon's brake levers.  Someone on another forum spotted that I had got them on the wrong way round.  This underlines the benefit of having another set of eyes looking at things.
Having done that, I next started the weathering process.  This turned into a frustrating business because I could get my airbrush to flow reliably.  I finally took the thing to bits and gave the parts a good soak in lacquer thinner (horrid stuff, I hate to use it) and found vast amounts of filth in the body (this despite me religiously cleaning it after session).  Things were much better after I got the muck out.

So, here we are:

GWR Crocodile:



Double Bolster:



Tube Wagon:



Finally, the Long Low Wagon:



John

Last edited on Thu Jun 19th, 2014 11:37 pm by Brossard

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Here's some shots of the wagon decking:







I think these look creditable, although I think next time I'll try for a lighter effect.  Those red marks are errant rust powder.  I have since rubbed them down with my finger.

John

Last edited on Fri Jun 20th, 2014 03:42 am by Brossard

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A couple more wagons converted:



The WD tank is Hornby and is pretty much how it came with the exception of couplings of course.  Wheels were filed down to EM spec.  The only real issue I have is the moulded brake gear, but a very nice model.

The Rec. Tank is Dapol and I was pleasantly surprised to find that the underframe is pretty good.  9' WB and separate brake lever.  Again, pretty much as it came.

Credit where credit is due.

John

Last edited on Fri Jun 27th, 2014 10:54 pm by Brossard

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The postie brought me a package today containing 4 Mousa Models ( http://www.mousa.biz/index.html ) wagon kits.



These are extremely well designed etch brass kits.



The kits come with provision for sprung suspension  - you can see the spring wire at the right.  The sprue in the middle contains axlebox/springs and buffer shanks.  These may be 3D printed.  Steel buffer heads can be seen at the left.  No wheels or transfers but that is not unusual in the kit world.

John

Last edited on Tue Jul 1st, 2014 05:01 am by Brossard

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Continuing with the theme of me doing silly things, I am working on converting and upgrading (I think) a Bachmann oil tank wagon.

I didn't take a picture of it prior to starting work, so here it is with quite a bit already done:



The etched item to the left is a mix of different components.

1)  The underframe itself is an Exactoscale 10' WB kit (from C&L).  It's supposed to be sprung but earlier attempts to do this proved too much of a faff, so I made it rigid.

2)  Brakes are from the Bill Bedford 10' WB brake etch from Eileen's Emporium.

3)  The longitudinals are strips of scrap brass.

I ended up having to chop up the Bachmann u/f.  Owners of these wagons will know that the floor is flush with the bottom of the solebars, and I wanted mine to be full depth.  The etched u/f wouldn't fit between the solebars after I removed the floor.
I needed some way to attach the buffer beams so I fabricated the frame you see.  This took careful measurement and marking and more than one try.

The wheels are Bachmann's 3 hole disc, modified to meet the EM spec.  You should be aware that these are ~ 0.5mm larger diameter than they should be and I spent some time fettling the brake shoes to get the wheels free running.

This build got me thinking about brakes and I did some research about the different types.

For wagons not fitted with vacuum brakes, there were two types (I think):

1)  Independent brakes and 
2)  Morton brakes.



This poor picture (retouched with Picasa due to light issues) shows the two types.

The wagon on the left is still WIP but does show the brakes as accurately as I can determine.  The brakes in this case are independent and as the name implies, only the brakes on the side of the wagon where the brake lever is pulled will be applied.  You will note that there is no cross shaft.  You will also note that the brake shoe push rods are diametrically opposed.  A little thought will confirm the mechanical reason for this.

Private Owner wagons to the 1923 RCH spec. typically used independent brakes.

The tank wagon on the right has Morton brakes.  This design is more refined and lets the brakes be applied on both sides by pulling the lever on either side.  This is achieved by a cam on one side.  Also note that the the brake shoe push rods are on the same side.

Company owned wagons and those carrying hazardous materials (like oil in the case above, or molasses (??) in this case) seemed to use Morton brakes.  Being able to apply all four brakes is obviously better than just two.

More info here:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/4-rstock/04arstock2f.htm

John

Last edited on Sat Jul 12th, 2014 04:15 am by Brossard

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I spent much of today assembling the underframe for my tank wagon.



I used brass wire to pin the parts to the metal and lashings of cyano.  It all seems to be good.

Brake levers (this is the cammed side) and safety loops have also been added.

The rest should be fairly straightforward.

John

Last edited on Sat Jul 12th, 2014 10:30 pm by Brossard

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I finished assembly of the tank wagon this morning:



I still need to give it some weathering.

John

Last edited on Mon Jul 14th, 2014 07:35 pm by Brossard

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I spent the morning weathering.  Over the last several days I revisited some of my wagons and did some mods to make the brake gear more correct :pathead, as discussed above.
Here's the tank wagon:



John

Last edited on Tue Jul 15th, 2014 08:23 pm by Brossard

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Having a potter around the other day, I came across a van I didn't know I had.  It is the LMS Motor Car Van (D2026), a model of which Hornby recently released and that I discussed earlier in this thread.



It must have been done ages ago and had been painted red.  The underframe detail is dire.  It is, in fact, a kit available from Parkside Dundas:

http://www.parksidedundas.co.uk/acatalog/LONDON_MIDLAND___SCOTTISH_RAILWAY.html

PC40.

Last evening I gave it a bath in IPA to get rid of most of the old paint and spent a while this morning scraping away.  It will, of course, be painted bauxite.

John

Last edited on Tue Jul 15th, 2014 09:19 pm by Brossard

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I spent today focused on the motor car van underframed.  It did not go easily and I had one or two false starts, but Ithink we're nearly there now.



My first job was to disassemble the van, I think it's easier to work with a flat piece.

Next I reworked a couple of Bachmann coach wheel sets to EM spec.

I had a lot of trouble with the brakes.  I used a Mainly Trains etch which is really for goods wagons with smaller wheels.  I ended up separating each brake and gluing that to the underframe using the wheels as jigs.

I decided to use yokes, also from a Mainly Trains etch.

I wasn't happy with the PD brake cylinder, it looked underweight.  I happened to have some plastic tubing whose ID was close to the OD of the cylinder, so I beefed it up.  I drilled 0.032" and inserted some brass rod for an actuator.

Vee hangers are from my etch and they were first glued with cyano and then reinforced by gluing strips of plastic over them.
I started the safety loops and you can see the inner ones in place.  I had trouble with u/f ribs getting in the way for the outer ones.  I'll do those tomorrow.

Brake levers and ratchet are also from my etch.  You can just see a crank on the brake actuator rod.  This will be connected to pull rods for the brakes.

The J hangers which support the leaf springs, look really anemic, especially compared to the Hornby model.  I found 8 Comet J hangers, so I will use those.  Besides I broke one off.

John

Last edited on Thu Jul 17th, 2014 07:46 am by Brossard

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Trying to finish detailing my motor car van u/f today.   Fitting the J hangers has proven to be time consuming and, in the process, I did some damage that had to be repaired.  So, while the glue is drying, I put my mind to a couple of other things.

First, as I was working on the J hangers I was conscious that I have two more similar vans to do, both Parkside Dundas kits of the LMS CCT:  PC33 D1929.

I have one kit still in its' packet and I discovered a made up model in my "to do" box the other day:



This was done quite a few years ago and I can see where improvements can be made.  The u/f detailing is, I assume, the same as the D2026.

Rainstrips need adding to the roofs.

Lettering, I think, is incorrect based on a picture in Essery & Jenkinson's LMS coaches.

J hangers are, as usual anemic, and you will note that the LH ones are broken.  This got me thinking - can I make my own?

I made some leaf springs for my 6 wheeled milk van so I wonder if I can use the same method to make J hangers.




These are Comet whitemetal examples.  By using various widths and thicknesses of plastic strip I should be able to replicate these.

To start I glued up the strip into 30mm lengths.  This should give a van's worth of J hangers which are 2.5mm wide plus a bit of spare.

These look like this:


 
I plan to shape the profile once the solvent has hardened and use my chopper to cut 2.5mm slabs.

John

Last edited on Thu Jul 17th, 2014 09:16 pm by Brossard

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I got the motor car van underframe finished this morning:





It looks a right mess at this stage.  It's in the paint shop with a coat of grey primer applied - that should clean things up nicely.

All those weights, installed during the first build all those years ago, add up to about 60g.

You can see the Comet J hangers installed.

John

Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2014 07:48 pm by Brossard

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Having left the primer to dry yesterday and through the night, here's the result:





It will go back to the paintshop for black next.

John

Last edited on Sat Jul 19th, 2014 06:08 pm by Brossard

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OK, while the paint on the first van was drying, I turned my attention to the two CCTs.  The pre built van was in rough shape after dis-assembly and I felt the floor and solebars were past redemption ( I did try).  I resolved therefore to build a new floor from plastic card.

I also decided that the two CCTs would have Bill Bedford sprung W iron suspension.

My results to date:



Floor is 0.040" sheet.  Solebars are 0.040 x 0.100" for the web and 0.010 x 0.080" for the flanges. (I didn't have any suitable channel in stock).



I had to reduce the solebar thickness at the W irons.

I will re-use the kit W irons and axleboxes.

Finally a look underneath:



I removed some ribs from the kit u/f based on my experiences with the Motor Car Van.  I replicated some of the kit ribs using 0.040 x 0.040" strip.  Plastic card is infamous for warping so some bracing will be necessary.  I'll probably add some additional bracing to the inside.

By the way, I'm trying to adhere to the philosophy of building a model using a kit as a basis, rather than building a kit.

John

Last edited on Sun Jul 20th, 2014 04:10 am by Brossard

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I've been beavering away at these 3 vans over the last day or so.  There seem to be such a lot of little bits and bobs to do and it all takes time, or maybe it's just me.

Here's van #1 in its' primer glory:



I just finished detailing the buffer beam.

I got some very nice whitemetal coupling hooks with integral back plate from Lanarkshire Models and wanted to try those.
Buffers had to be cropped so that the tailgate can drop.

Wire wound hoses have been fitted.  LH is the vacuum hose, while on the right is the through steam heat hose.

A note on hoses and buffer beams.  It is common to see modellers drill a hole in the buffer beam to insert hoses.  This is, in fact, incorrect.  Hoses were mounted under the buffer beam.  I made some supports from 0.080 x 0.080" strip and drilled 0.032" holes to suit the hose wire.  The head of the support was rounded off and you can just see one peeping out.  The supports are glued behind the buffer beam with the hole just proud so that the wire wound hose can be inserted.  Just a little detail.

I've been progressing the other two vans in parallel so that the underframes of these are just about finished.

John

Last edited on Tue Jul 22nd, 2014 04:17 am by Brossard

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A lot of progress today.  I got the construction of the two underframes done:



The one on the left is scratchbuilt while the other is from the kit.  You can also see the homemade J hangers.  I don't recommend this, but I wanted to see if it could be done.  Comet do a pack of these which also includes leaf springs and axleboxes - enough for one vehicle.  They turned out not too badly but are very fiddly, time consuming and fragile.

I had to gouge a lot of material from the inside of the axleboxes to allow the bearings to move up and down.  I have a Dremel attachment for that.

Roofs have had a coat of primer:



The kit doesn't include the rainstrip.  I used 0.020" plastic rod.  The top of the radius and the ends were carefully marked out.  An  overlength piece of strip was placed over the center location and a spot of solvent applied.  Leave this a few seconds and tease the ends towards your marks trying to get a nice radius.  Add some more solvent to both ends.  If not perfect you have some time to tease the rod into shape - I use a small file.  When happy, trim the rod.

I also assembled the bodies:



The kit intends these to be assembled onto the underframe.  However, I want to be able to airbrush these Crimson Lake and that's a bit of a nuisance with the underframe on.  You can see I added some corner braces and a center brace.  I added a piece of 0.040" strip to the inside bottom spaced 0.040" from the edge.  This will act as a locator for the underframe.

John

Last edited on Wed Jul 23rd, 2014 07:38 am by Brossard

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I AM watching, John.  I just can't think of anything useful to say.  ;-)

. . . except, "Very nice work."   :cool:

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Right Max, just be sure to be sitting comfortably.

I monitor a lot of threads and frequently have the same problem thinking of useful stuff to say.

John

 

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I added weight to the two underframes to bring them to about 60g each.

I then popped the wheels in and gave them a run on the test track.  They both sail through the point with no problems.

They are now in the paintshop with a coat of primer grey.  I'll leave that until tomorrow.

John

Last edited on Wed Jul 23rd, 2014 08:59 pm by Brossard

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MaxSouthOz wrote: I AM watching, John.  I just can't think of anything useful to say.  ;-)

. . . except, "Very nice work."   :cool:


Woteesed.....but I'll add 'jealous'.

D

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Jealous Doug?  Come on, your buildings are second to none, I'm envious of that!

John

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The first van has been painted and varnished, ready for transfers.  Here it is next to the Hornby model:


I used Tamiya Hull Red and it does look dark,  but similar to the Bachmann bauxite on their brake van.  Perhaps my excuse is that they are different lots.
John

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Brossard wrote: Jealous Doug?  Come on, your buildings are second to none, I'm envious of that!

John


Very kind of you, John, but given that a small window assembly is at least four times the size of the brake gear on a wagon, it ain't so difficult. Even with a piece of glass to build my plastic carriage truck on it only rests on three wheels!

Doug

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It's the 3 Ps Doug.  Patience, Perserverance and Practice.  I've made wonky wagons in the past.

John

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Or the 6 P's.  Prior planning prevents p .. s poor performances.   :cool:

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Indeed yes, lots of P about.

John

 

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Would you guys please stop peeing in the forum!

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:cheers

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Well, I didn't like the colour on the motor car van so redid it with Tamiya red-brown:



It's had a coat of gloss varnish.  Once the transfers are done this will be dulled down.

I painted the three roofs with PollyS UP Dark Grey.




I'm not super happy that brush strokes are visible, but they will be weathered.

The two CCT bodies have been airbrush painted with Railmatch enamel Crimson Lake.



John

Last edited on Sat Jul 26th, 2014 05:24 am by Brossard

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Having put some varnish on the two van bodies, I spent some time this afternoon mating the bodies with the underframes:



I forgot to install the pull rod safety loops before painting the u/f black, this is why there are grey blotches.

I wanted to better illustrate my method for attaching pipes under the bufferbeam.  This is a bit clearer here I think.  You can also see the pad for the Kadee.

Buffers have been fixed with cyano as has the coupling hook - Lanarkshire Models again - I do like these.

I do some touch up black painting next.

John

Last edited on Sun Jul 27th, 2014 02:27 am by Brossard

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I got around to applying transfers to the Motor Car van and the two CCTs yesterday.  The usual tongue sticking out of the corner of the mouth and toes curled up as I did it:



This photo shows that there is still some touch up to do and, as usual, it also shows that I got the 4 in the number wonky. :roll:


The two CCTs had roofs that were just a tad too short so I used plastic strip to extend them.  The solvent is now hardening.

John

Last edited on Fri Aug 1st, 2014 07:32 pm by Brossard

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That looks very nice John.   T he only reason the wonky 4 notices is because you told us about it.

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Yeah, honest as the day is long me.  ;-)  I've already fixed the 4.

John

 

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I finally got the construction done on all 3 vans:







These didn't turn at all badly.  The bottom van is the restored item.  The body side has some warpage from overzealous application of glue I think.  Weathering yet to come.

John

Last edited on Sat Aug 2nd, 2014 05:24 am by Brossard

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I found a box from Hatton's my doorstep today.  Goodies therein:







These just caught my eye as being particularly attractive.  The weathering is quite well done and the numbers are all different - something you don't always get with multi packs.

The icing on the cake:




This is a tiny little thing but extremely well done I think.  Oxford Diecast of course.

John

 

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Smashing job on those wagons John and I like the new multi pack additions.
Just spotted the sad news that Mainly Trains is packing up.
Thats a blow they were very handy for bits and bobs.Our suppliers are shrinking fast these days.

regards,
Derek.

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Yes Derek, I've a bit of work to do to convert them.

Quite a lot of problems with the trade at the moment.  Comet is also out of the picture for the time being.  Let's hope someone with experience and drive takes the businesses on.

John

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:)Hi John I agree lets hope Comet is rescued at least. Sent an order to Mainly Trains for some bits and bobs they are still trading at the moment.

That Watford 0-6-2T I have from Lychett needs some work.White metal is not good in places.I will make up a brass boiler and cover the tank sides with thin brass sheet and add rivet detail if required.Plus it will need some sprung buffers.

All the best,

Derek.

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I suppose I'd better have a think about what I need and get that in before the plug gets pulled at MT.

Sorry about the tank.  I've used rivet/bolt transfers from Archer on a couple of projects.  These are easy to apply (waterslide) and look good.

John

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I've converted the tar wagons:




#58 Kadees installed.  I kept the Bachmann wheels but thinned them to EM spec.  I was introduced to Vallejo weathering powders the other day.  Despite the wagons being factory weathered I added some further dirt effects.  No airbrush but you do need a matte finish for the powder to adhere.

Just to illustrate the difference between EM and 00:




It's only 1.5mm and EM isn't even dead scale (18.2mm = 4' 6.5", 2" short) but the EM wagon sits on the track in a more convincing stance.  The thinner wheels make a significant difference too.  I put a #18 Kadee on the 00 wagon.  Using a #5 or #148 would make the coupling less obvious.  I always snip off the trip hook because I don't use magnets.  This also helps to reduce the signature of the Kadee.

John

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John,
Any chance of a mini-tutorial, with pics hopefully, of your method of thinning and adjusting the regular Bachmann wheels to EM??

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Is this what you mean?: http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=10043&forum_id=62&page=10

The Bachmann axleboxes do need thinning by removal of the ribs.  The brake shoes also need to be thinned until they clear the wheel rims and flanges.

The axles in these tanks are horribly sloppy, I hadn't noticed that on other models.  I did actually install a pair of waisted bearings in one tank but then the 26mm axle was too long.  I found a 25.5mm axle in my spares box (no idea where it came from), which worked OK, although I still needed to use the truck tuner to get things rolling nicely.

John


Just one more thing, I ordered a load of EM wheels (coach and wagon) from Mainly Trains - reworking 00 ones is fine in a pinch but it does get quite tedious after a while.

Last edited on Sun Oct 19th, 2014 02:48 am by Brossard

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Nice one John.
What would be the scale wheel tyre thickness or put another way what size were the real jobs.I have thinned down a set of Markits to a 2.2mm thread although I suspect real wheels would be even thinner to scale.?.
regards,
Derek.

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That's a good question Derek.  I will have to look that up.  At 2.3mm, I suspect EM tyres are still wider than the prototype.  I seem to recall that P4 calls for 2mm so that will be close to the real thing.  The driver for tyre width is the common crossing and flangeway gaps (00 is > 1mm, EM is 1mm and P4 is (I think) 0.7mm).  Peco points have very large flangeways so a fine scale wheel is going to lose support at some point.  The result will be a bumpy passage.

John


Edit:  I did a bit of a search and, surprisingly, tyre width is not something that is discussed much.  I did find the site of one European manufacturer that states rim width to be between 95mm and 160mm (3.7" - 6.3" in old money).  The P4 spec is indeed 2mm.

I suppose I could nip down to the back of the garden and lie in wait for a CN freight to go by.

 

Last edited on Fri Oct 24th, 2014 08:39 pm by Brossard

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Hi John, The P4 chaps quote wheels for loco,s at 5.5 to 6 inches so anywhere between 1.85 and 2mm width would be scale.
Wagons are a little less but not much.
I guess some compromise is needed if you want the locos and rolling stock to stay on the tracks.
regards,
Derek.

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I see Martin Wynne, on the ScaleFour forum has introduced something called EM Fine with 2mm wide wheels and 0.80 flangeways to Templot - kind of splitting the difference between EM and P4.

I find wheels and their interaction with the track to be quite interesting.:cool:

I got my Mainly Trains wheels today.  Fortunately the postie didn't demand money - just my signature.

I started to convert the Fina tank wagons and found that the wheels are egregiously sloppy.:shock:  Anyone else noticed that?  I'm thinking the tool needs to be replaced.  I suppose they will run but my engineering instincts scream WRONG!

What should have been a straightforward drop in became a major undertaking.  I installed waisted bearings which fit nicely in the cavernous maw that Bachmann try to pass off as a bearing - the tank sits square too, there's a bonus.  However, now the axles were tight and I had to shorten them from 25.75mm (I measured them) to 24.5mm.  This necessitated reinstating the pinpoint by mounting the axle in my Dremel and running against files of increasing fineness.  I managed to get one pinpoint eccentric (go figure) but the rest seem good.

What a kerfuffle!:roll:  There's a better expression with initials Charlie Foxtrot, that I can't use here.

John

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Glad you got your order from Mainly Trains John.Not so glad the axles were poor.
Interesting what Martin is up to on wheel profiles.I am going to stick with 1mm check rail clearance on the turnouts and build them at 16.5mm gauge.
Wheels well I like the 2.2mm thread but will test them before commiting.
Best of luck.
Derek.

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1mm check rail corresponds to 00 SF but the gauge there is supposed to be 16.2mm, which would take up some of the slop from 00 and make passage through points more precise I think.

Having done some tests and having had a think, I think that flanges are the critical bit.  00 wheels have quite wide flanges at ~0.7mm (hard to measure) which doesn't leave much tolerance with 1mm flangeways.

If you use finescale wheels, with 0.5mm flanges, such as Gibson, there shouldn't be a problem.

John

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True John,I was forgetting the 00 RTR scenario and pulling Bachman locos apart is a chore although the new Bachman wheels seem to flow through my turnouts okay ?.
Now I have a crossover to build to move on with track laying.

Derek.

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I was thinking mostly of wagon and coach wheels Derek.  I wouldn't suggest you swap loco wheels :shock:.

Now, let's see this crossover.

John

Last edited on Sat Oct 25th, 2014 07:08 pm by Brossard

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Just for completeness, the Fina tanks are done:




Bachmann wheels replaced with Gibson.  I just noticed that the brakes are double Morton and will have to have a rod installed to connect them. :roll:

John

 

Last edited on Mon Oct 27th, 2014 02:36 am by Brossard

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I'm at it again.  Having finished a couple of projects, I had a root through my kit box and came up with a Parkside Dundas LMS Fish Van (PC59) Dia. 2059 built in 1941.




The first question was what wheels?  Scrutinising my Essery & Jenkinson, I concluded that this van would have 3' 7" or 14mm wheels.  Earlier designs had 3' 1" 3 hole wheels on a 9' WB.  Information is scanty, even the body colour is a bit of a mystery with PD thinking it might have been in a brown undercoat due to the vans being built during the war.

The kit, as supplied, will produce a reasonable representation of the van.  However, I always prefer to go a bit further and detail the underframes.

I will use brake parts from Mainly Trains:




The fret on the left contains clasp brakes which fold up.  There are also sundry other useful bits like V hangers, ratchets and cranks.

The fret on the right contains yokes - those triangular bits.

After a hour or so I have this:




You can now see the clasp brakes folded and soldered.  These need tweaking to fit the 14mm wheels.  The plastic brakes are shown for comparison.

I have begun the under frame assembly.  I used brass pinpoint bearings in holes that need opening slightly with a drill between two fingers.

Solebars have been glued in place.  I recommend leaving the first solebar to dry for about an hour before fixing the other one.  Fit is precise with solebars resting against ribs on the floor.  The ends need to be flush to the end of the floor.  At this stage it is important to ensure that things are true.

John

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I finished detailing the underframe.  Yes, it's a right fiddle and does try the patience but I think the effect is worth it:







At this stage it's easy to see what I added.  The brakes need to be carefully tweaked to ensure free running.

John

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Another beauty John.You must be building up quite a fleet at this stage.
Derek.
PS:I laughed at your vid of Adolf,Thanks.

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Thanks Derek.  I think I probably have more stock now than I can use.  I'd better get back to getting some locos converted/built.

After all that faff with underframe, the van body was fairly straightforward:




I made a pad behind the buffer beam out of Evergreen for the Kadees.  I've also made the receptacles for the vacuum/steam pipes from 0.080 x 0.080" strip drilled 0.032".  You can just see these peeping out under the bufferbeam.  Coupling hook is Exactoscale.

John

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This has been most interesting.  There are no photographs of this van in the LMS era and no colour information.  One opinion, in the Parky D notes is that it was bauxite, but there's no hard evidence.   I opened a debate on RMWeb about the body colour.  The preponderance of opinion is that it should be red, although no-one has been able to offer any actual evidence.

So, I painted it red:




I did find a picture of one here:  http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsfish/h164f1cd5#h164f1cd5  In somewhat reduced circumstances.  The picture did cause me to rethink my wheels and I have changed them for 3' 1" 3 hole disc.

John

 

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It sure turned out well John.
Colour can be a minefield with these old wagons.
regards,
Derek.

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The good news is that, because there's so little known I can't be criticized for getting it wrong...can I?

John

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True John,Plus judging by that old wagon photo.Its flaking paint shows different colours.Could be old lead based undercoat,Greys and white or previous colour scemes.

Derek.

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I spent some time this morning adding lettering:




It's a bit frustrating because there's supposed to be a script: "To Carry 6 Tons" under the number that I don't have.  My philosophy is that if you can't a thing properly, it's better to not do it at all.

John

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Would that be the tare weight John or am I well off base.

Derek.

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Spot on Derek, yes Tare.  Sometimes it was in script and preceded by "Tare".

John

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I had a go at weathering the fish van this afternoon. 




I used my new airbrush on this.  I sprayed the 3 cattle wagons first so they took the brunt of my incompetence.  This van came out OK.

I started by spraying frame dirt (Lifecolour) underneath, on the solebars and on the lower quarter of the body.  I sprayed the roof with roof dirt (go figure).

I then brushed on powder up the van body trying to highlight the doors.

I put some rust on the axleboxes, brakes and springs, toning that down with dirt.

The door hardware, buffer heads and hook were highlighted with a silver pencil.

John

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Hi John,

Looks like mission successful. I like the use of the powders and think they have worked well on both the door area's and the end panels.

A nice convincing shade of filth and neglect. :thumbs

Cheers

Toto

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Looks good from here John.:cool:

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Thanks guys, you win some and you lose some.  Never give up though.

John

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Looks good to me John. :thumbs

Cheers, Gary.

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Very nice John, I like what you've done with that wagon. Good example of weathering!

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Congrats John on a great result,PLUS PHOTO OF THE WEEK ! Well deserved.

Derek.

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Yes, I was pleasantly surprised at that.  I'm glad to see I'm keeping everyone entertained.  :cheers

John

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And informed John. Some good food for thought with your thread. Congratulations on the picture of the week. Tell Alan not to remove it too quickly , well ........... Not until I've had a chance to copy it.:mutley

Cheers

Toto

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I'm glad that you are informed by the thread Toto, it is a big reason why I do it.  I hope others feel the same way.

John

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Hi John,Some advice please.
Romford/Markit axle dia. 3mm or 1/8 Any idea of what the supplier is useing these days for his driving wheels.
I have a comet replacement chassis for the Bachman Jinty and thinking of useing it.The original is somewhat knackered after the EM experiment.Plus I want to avoid Gibson drivers.They are to flimsy.Their bogie/tender wheels are okay.
regards,
Derek.

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Not sure what you mean Derek.  Markits axles are pretty much exclusive to Markits wheels.  I know Scalelink have a wheel design that is compatible with Markits axles, but these have plastic centers so similar to Gibson in strength I guess.

The last time I ordered wheels was from Markits direct.  This wasn't as straightforward as I would like and I ended up calling him to remind him of my order (he admitted he had forgotten) and had to endure a tirade about the bolshie postal service.  I suppose it's a side effect of the one man band operations and I can sympathise since he has to manage the whole thing - must be overwhelming.

The wheels sets are good because they give you everything you need including balance weights and axle covers.

Markits wheels seem to be finer than the old Romfords, nominally to RP25 but with a flange width of 0.54mm vs 0.68mm for RP25.  I recall turning down on an old set of wheels that I assume are Romfords because the flanges hit the chairs on my C&L track.

My Jinty chassis is also looking the worse for wear after my experiments.  I plan to pick it up in the next week to see what I can do with it.  If all else fails I have a couple of Comet chassis kits.

BTW, Markits also do 3mm top hat bearings.

I'm using Gibson coach/wagon wheels.

HTH

John

Last edited on Sun Nov 2nd, 2014 09:46 pm by Brossard

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I thought I'd show some wheels that I just weathered.  I feel that wheels should be given the same attention as the rest of the wagon.




I sprayed these with frame dirt when I had the airbrush loaded yesterday.  This morning I used "old rust" powder, following up with black.  The tyres are still painted at this stage but after running, these should develop a nice shiny line where the rail contacts the tyre.

The wheels on the left are Exactoscale, the rest are modified Bachmann.

John

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Thanks John. Markits do 3mm axles so I guess its best to phone the guy and ask him is his quartered wheels now being made for those 3mm axles.Also he provides knurled 3mm axles handy for some gear sprokets.I spotted some handy 25mm driving wheels which would suit the Prince kit of mine.
I have dealt with him before so the situation is not new.
Nice job on weathering those wagon wheels John.
cheers,
Derek.

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It doesn't matter to the wheels whether the axle is 3mm or 1/8" - the square boss is the same.  I got some knurled 3mm axles in my last order.

John

Last edited on Mon Nov 3rd, 2014 01:21 am by Brossard

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Thanks for that info John,
I guess the old 1/8th axles will be phased out.
Cheers,
Derek.

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Don't phase them out too quickly Derek.  You may still want to replace some chassis - although if your stock is the latest tooling, that will most likely be unnecessary.

John

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Thanks for the warning John.
Best to cover all angles with this stock building lark.
Derek.

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Brossard wrote: I thought I'd show some wheels that I just weathered.  I feel that wheels should be given the same attention as the rest of the wagon.











I sprayed these with frame dirt when I had the airbrush loaded yesterday.  This morning I used "old rust" powder, following up with black.  The tyres are still painted at this stage but after running, these should develop a nice shiny line where the rail contacts the tyre.



The wheels on the left are Exactoscale, the rest are modified Bachmann.



John



I agree a lot of rolling stock that is weathered needs more attention to the wheels.
My personal method is that like you I give them an initial spray of dirt, once this is dry I use artists oil paints (Burnt Umber and Raw Sienna or similar) and apply a rough thin coat to the wheel faces, I then sprinkle on a bit brown/black powder.
This once dry gives a more crusty rusty finish.






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Happy to hear that there's someone else out there that thinks like me.  Great minds...?

Cheers Andy.

John

 

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I do a similar process to my wheels....I found this tutorial about 18 months ago that got me combining paint and powders...before that it was just a rusty/brown coat of paint on the wheel faces....which is a huge improvement on the factory fresh shiny wheels out of the box....but powders do help.

http://www.protomodeler.com/index.php?/topic/370-weathering-wheel-faces/

Cheers
Gene

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Excellent Gene, very encouraging to me to know I'm on the right track.

John

 

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Yup, that link is exactly how I do mine.

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So, I revisited a recent project - the Fish van.  I also built a second van given to me by a friend.

Shortly after I "finished" the first van, I saw something written by Larry Goddard (Coachman) who indicated that NPCS vans built after 1940 were finished in Lake Undercoat or Bauxite.  I therefore repainted my van using BR Bauxite:



I thought I'd have a go with giving these a light weathering using only powders - I quite like the effect.

John

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Hi John,

They look the business. What powders did you use. Looks like a dusting of black here and there. I don't mean to understate anything, there could easily be two or three colours there. That's why I ask.

Great end result in any case.

Thanks again for sharing.

Toto

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Superb John.

Simply Superb.

Marty

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Cheers, Marty.

Toto, quite a few colours actually.  I started with old rust on the springs and axleboxes - this was worked with a brush.  Then some earth on the axlesboxes and solebars, again worked with a brush.  Then I used dark grey (made from shaved white pastel and black pigment) to go over the solebars.  I applied a line of grey to the bottom of the van, working it with a brush, ditto for the ends, doors and van edges.

There's not a lot of science, I just do what seems right.

Ironwork on the doors was highlighted with silver pencil.


John

 

Last edited on Mon Nov 10th, 2014 08:48 am by Brossard

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Good looking wagons John,I must say those Kaydee couplings look neat.

Cheers,
Derek.

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Thanks Derek, Kadees are something I've standardized on for years now.

Here's a shot of the underneath:




I'm never impressed with the detail provided by plastic kit makers.  I prefer to do my own using brass parts - in this case the MainlyTrains AVB etch, and wire.

John

 

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Very impressive John. I'm still very much behind the eight ball with my weathering project and hope to get back to it soon. the kadee's are another item of interest but that's for another day.
the wagons are so much more realistic than the bog standard that grace my layout at the moment. great job and thanks for the information on the colouring / powders etc.


cheers


toto

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I got my electronic copy (well, PDF) of the Nov/Dec BRMNA Journal today.  In it is an article I wrote on the Chivers wagons builds that I documented here a while ago.  The same pics were used and I condensed my waffling into something sensible.  The editor wants to do a recurring piece so I'd better keep busy making stuff.

John

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Good job John! :doublethumb

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:):)Very well done John and richly deserved.

Its good to see a fellow member becoming recognized in the printing world.

By the way what are your thoughts on the New EM fine gauge scale.18.8mm.Templot now supports it.

Darn It,Thats getting tempting :???:.

Cheers,

Derek.

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Thanks Derek, all great fun.

As for 18.8mm gauge EM, I don't know.  According to Martin's comments on Scalefour Forum, he has done it to cater for those who wish to do this, kind of P4 light.  Purists of course don't like the idea of corrupting P4 standards.  Whenever anyone tries to suggest a different way for P4, things seem to erupt - like the discussion on RMWeb about deeper flanges for P4 (essentially slimmed down EM wheels - sounds familiar since I've been slimming down 00 wheels for EM) in MRJ 234.  Personally I can't see the problem, but I'm not doing P4.

I think at that gauge, using EM wheels (2.3mm wide vs 2.0mm for P4) might become a problem even though it's only 0.6mm.

Of course anyone is free to bodge the standards any way they want.  It only becomes a problem if you want to play with others.

Anyway I thought you had resolved to go 00.  You really are making a hair shirt for yourself by trying 18.8mm - if you do can I suggest a boxfile layout (such as Chris Nevard does) to start?

John

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Hi John,I said it was tempting but for another time perhaps.
I shall stick to the present 00 with some slight mods.
Changed the clearances to 1.2 rather than 1.25 on check rails etc.Not a lot but I like experimenting.
I do have an ambition to build an Irish broad gauge line 5ft 3in gauge in 4mm.Might be a little project for downstairs.Just a dream.
Derek.

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Hi John...Nice weathering...

REgards...Alan

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Standing by.

I thought 5' 3" was Irish standard gauge.  There was a dead scale layout built to that gauge, Adavoyle by Tony Miles.

http://www.templot.com/GNRI/adavoyle.htm

You should OK with 1.2mm although it seems a tiny reduction, can you even measure that reliably?  I note that 00SF flangeways are 1mm.  Nothing wrong with tinkering, I'm always at it.

John

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Congratulations on the article in BRMNA Journal John. A value able resource.

Marty

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Brossard wrote: Standing by.

I thought 5' 3" was Irish standard gauge.  There was a dead scale layout built to that gauge, Adavoyle by Tony Miles.

http://www.templot.com/GNRI/adavoyle.htm

You should OK with 1.2mm although it seems a tiny reduction, can you even measure that reliably?  I note that 00SF flangeways are 1mm.  Nothing wrong with tinkering, I'm always at it.

John


:)I just call it broad gauge as against the 4'-8/1/2 of the standard British gauge.

Yes I have seen Adavoyle its a brilliant railway build.

I love the mix of 5ft 3in and 3ft narrow gauge.

Thanks for the link.

Derek.

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Drat!  I see Bachmann have done a Jubilee in LMS red - Nelson.  I did NOT see that coming!  Had to think about this one - but only for a few seconds, after all:

1)  It is Christmas and I've been good

2)  It's Nelson dude!  Just reading John Sugden's bio "Sword of Albion".

3)  Given the state of things, if I let it go, I may not see it again.

Ah well, it's only money.

John

Last edited on Tue Dec 9th, 2014 10:47 pm by Brossard

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So, I have my Jubilee and have installed a decoder.

On opening the box, the model is very impressive with a great deal of fine detail incl. sprung buffers.  The tender, consistent with Bachmann policy does not have its' brakes anywhere near the wheels being moulded to the frames.  However, the plastic coal does come out giving you an empty coal bunker if desired.  I'll probably add weight and put in some real coal.

The backhead detail is very good.  A pack of etched nameplates in included but I may just leave the printed ones - something to mull.

A bit annoyed that the detail pack was missing.  This will include front steps, drain cock piping and brake detail.  I sent off to Bachmann for one.

First a test run in DC revealed a tight spot every revolution, but otherwise it runs fine.  The tender body is fixed with two screws at the rear and a clip at the front.  This comes away easily enough.  Somewhat miffed that Hatton's misled me to think that the model required a 8 pin decoder (I got a DCC Concepts S4SAX) but actually takes a 21 pin.  Fortunately I had a Gaugemaster/DCC Concepts 21/8 pin converter in stock.  Thinking about it, it's not a bad idea to do this.  21 pin decoders are not widely available (I know of Bachmann's (which I won't use) and Lenz (the places where these are have costly postage).  Better I think to use an 8 pin with a converter.

Here's the decoder installed:




I removed the body which is attached with two screws, one at the back under the wiring and the other at the front just under the bogie.  The capacitor was snipped off.

By moving the motor out of engagement with the drive gear, I was able to determine that the tight spot was due to misalignment on one of the crosshead/slidebars.  A tweak set that right.

So, all back together again and running is fine.  As I always do, I set CV2 (Vmin) so that the loco just moves on speed step 1.

Now, it's in the queue to await conversion.

John 


 

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Nice loco John and a proper colour.
Should be fun converting with the valve gear.Is there a comet or similar frame set that could be used ? and build it round the Bachman chassis and motor block.I think all the new Bachman larger loco,s with tenders are useing 21 pin decoders.Glad you could sort your one out.
Regards,
Derek.

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I can go for a frame pack or chassis pack from Comet.  The frame pack has frames (duh!) brakes and pull rods but not the motion and is a lot less expensive.  I will want to replace the rods since Bachmann's are overscale so I guess it'll be the chassis kit.  The drivers on the model are 2.6mm wide, finer than some but still too wide I think, so a set of Markits may be in the cards.  I'll have to think about it.  I have one or two locos to do before this though.

John

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Hi John,I was browsing the old Comet site and you can buy a motion set for the Jubilee loco as a seperate item.Hope that helps and may save you a few dollars.
Regards,
Derek.

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Thanks, yes, I had to scroll down a bit to find it.  The thing about Comet products is that most everything is modular so you can buy just the bits you need or get the whole kit.  It is easier to buy the full kit because then, at least, you know you'll have everything.  Eg. the motion set doesn't include crossheads.  The cylinders look better than Bachmann's too.

As I said, tooth sucking and navel gazing will have to be done.

John

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Drat!  Someone on RMWeb mentioned that Nelson was fitted with a Stanier 3500 Gal tender from new.  Bachmann's model has the 4000 Gal. version.

Tenders for these are a minefield and there were quite a number of variations.*  The first batch of locos had the Fowler 3500 Gal type.

The 50 loco batch from 5617 - 5666 (of which Nelson is 5664) were supposed to get the Stanier Mk VI 3500 Gal tender.  This tender has 6' 6" x 6' 6" wheelbase and presumably was required for the Midland operating area to suit short turntables. (The 4000 Gal tender had 7' 6" x 7' 6" WB)  The body is also as a consequence shorter.

However, in late 1935, it was decided to assign 40 of these to Scots (which had Fowler tenders) in order to increase coal capacity and, therefore, 40 new Jubilees received Fowler tenders.

5664, being near the end of the run, did actually receive its' Stanier 3500 Gal tender.

A number of Jubilees actually got Stanier 4000 Gal tenders, but you have to watch which ones were riveted or welded.  Best to have a picture.  Given the livery on the model, renumbering is not in the cards.

Tiptoe gently through this with fingers in ears.

Both Alan Gibson and Brassmasters list the correct tender kit.  The latter though, is 45.00, but beautifully engineered.  I don't know the price of the Gibson kit.

*My source for this is "An Illustrated History of LMS Locomotives", Vol 5, by Essery and Jenkinson.

John

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Hi John,Tenders and historical modelling can put an extra strain on the builder.Most of my Bachman locos will need work.That Jinty of mine of course did not exist in my time frame G2 locos were roundtop boiler G or G1 class.Oh well thats the hairshirt one has chosen.
Regards and goodluck,
Derek.

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My hairshirt is particularly itchy.  Still, we must persevere.

John

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Just want to give an honorable mention to Bachmann - I received my missing accessory pack for the Jubilee today.

I've also ordered a 3500 Gal tender kit from Gibson.

John

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Well it's been quite a while but I'm baaaack.

I've been building boards for layout, but today, for a change of pace and inspired by Kevin's (Passed Driver) discussion on kits, I'd thought I'd do one.

The kit I chose is a Slaters Midland 8T Open.

It is essentially complete:





The underframe is very easy to set up and I reckon it's hard to get the wheels out of true.

Underframe is built out of the box.  I used Exactoscale wheels modified for OO.  These are really intended for EM and may be a tad fine for Peco points.  I'm not going to use those so I think I can get away with it, besides I have them in and want to use up.  The wheels do look superb and run as free as you like.  Brakes are pleasingly close to the wheels but don't interfere - luck?

The only other thing I did was to drill out the V hanger, brake pivot and brake handle pivot.  I inserted a piece of 0.45mm NS wire through and glued.  When the glue was dry I removed the between the brakes - this wagon had independent manual brakes.

On the body, the insides are not detailed so I scribed lines to represent the planks.  I also have some strapping etch so I glued that on.  Not sure if that is right but my sense is that the strapping would be inside and out.  The coupling hook is from Lanarkshire models.  It is whitemetal with very nice detail.  I like that the plate is integral with the hook and the mount is round (if you have every had to agonise a slot to take your coupling hook, you'll really appreciate these).  All I had to do was drill out the moulded slot and stick the hook in - easy.

The biggest difficulty was getting the sides on right.  There's a cutout at each lower corner that you really have to fettle so the the sides are flush with the ends.

Painting next.

John

Last edited on Fri Jul 15th, 2016 11:27 pm by Brossard

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Looks good, John.  Nice amount of detail now you've added your bit.

Are the buffers brass?

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Thanks Max.  Buffers are turned steel, Slaters provide these for all their kits (very nice transfers too).  Wagon has been primed with grey and wheels painted.  I'll leave that overnight.

John

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I started another kit, this time a van.  I ran into a problem that I have seen before.  Putting the solebars on the floor in the position that should be correct results in the solebars being pushed out by the pinpoint axles.  I let the glue dry a bit before checking so I can correct any errors that crop up.

So, in this case, I removed the solebars, cleaned up the mess, and added 0.020" plastic card to the inside of the solebars.  This pushes the whole thing out to be flush with the floor.




In this picture you can see the shim near the upper left wheel.  Solebars are flush with and perpendicular to the floor.  I haven't checked the fit of the body yet so I could have more problems.

The question of a flat surface came up in the kit bashing thread.  I have a ceramic tile but it is heavy.  I also have a cheap hand mirror bought while lurking in the ladies section of Target.




It serves double duty because it is handy for squinting up the turnout during build to check for booboos.

Finally, a word on wheels.  I've painted them for the open wagon above:




The wheel on the right is was painted with a browny concoction of my own making.  The wheel on the left was painted the same way but I have applied a mixture of black and umber paint pigment (weathering powder really).  In life wheels are never black, although I frequently see them painted that way.  I also scraped off the excess paint from the tire using a very old Exacto curved blade.  The tires were polished with a fiber pen.

I think wheels do a lot for the credibility of a model and they are worth the effort.

John 

Last edited on Sat Jul 16th, 2016 05:14 am by Brossard

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What a pain.  Looks like you sorted it though, John.  :thumbs

I've got a piece of 6 mm toughened glass 700 mm x 300 mm. 

It's excellent for working in O scale.

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Well kits frequently don't fall together when you shake the the box.  There are pitfalls for the unwary.  I hope that others can benefit by what I find.

John

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They both look good John. :thumbs

I too have had that problem with the solebars being too close for the axles.  Do these kits use brass bearings ?  I note the Dapol (ex Airfix) kits have pinpoint axles but just plain plastic bearings - it will be interesting to see how long they last. :roll:

Ragarding your inside strapping on the open wagon - I'll have to disagree unfortunately.  Whilst I'm not absolutely certain, I'm pretty sure the strapping was only on the outside.

The planks were held in place by coach bolts and were just plain planks (i.e. not tongued and grooved or half lapped).  This facilitated easy replacement of a plank in the middle of a side.  Just undo the bolt necessary and the plank falls out.  With strapping both sides, you'd have to completely dismantle the planks above the rotten/broken one to get at it.................:roll:

Finally, have to removed a photo ?  None of the pictures I can see show any buffers ..................:???:

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Great that you have written in Peter.  Thank you very much for the info on strapping, I'll get rid of it.

I would always use brass bearings.  For these kits the straight shouldered bearings fit perfectly.  Had I used unshouldered bearings I might not have had the problem, since they would bottom in the hole.

I haven't put buffers in yet, I'll do that after painting.

More to come.

John

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Beavering away on several wagons today.

First the open wagon after priming:




I've since removed the strapping on Peters' advice.




Here's the underneath.  A couple of things to note:

- weights have in the middle and ends of the underframe. 

- the end weights are covered by 0.020" card which, in turn are masked.  The card provides the mount for the Kadee. 

I've been working on an 8T van as well.  I thought I'd show a bit more of the underframe build process:




Here, a piece of NS 0.45mm has been inserted through both sets of brakes and V hangers.  I have a fine finishing broach mounted in a pin vice (the plastic handle broke) that is used to open the holes ever so slightly to make the wires' passage easier.  Taking a step back, holes need to be drilled in the V hangers, brake units and levers BEFORE they're installed.  For that I have a 0.020" drill. 

Here's a tip:  I have a heck of a lot of drills, but, for modelling, the size I use most often is 0.020".  These wear out and frequently break so I like to have a healthy stock of these to avoid frustration.  The other drill I use frequently is 0.032".  I wouldn't bother with those sets of various sized drills.

Of course, get yourself several pin vices, handy things these.





Here's the underframe with brake levers on and wire between the brake units snipped.



Finally, the van body assembled.   Plenty of room for weight.

John 


Last edited on Sun Jul 17th, 2016 03:22 am by Brossard

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Lovely, John.  :thumbs

I have metric drill sets of 14 in sizes 0.2 - 1.5 mm

The one I use most is the 1.1 for fitting 1 mm brass rod through styrene.  I buy them in packs of 10   :lol:

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We're supposed to be metric but I grew up with Imperial and find it hard to get my head around some things.  I have no sense whatsoever of what a kilonewton is, but for kilograms I just divide by 2.  Also, we are still heavily influenced by our luddite neighbours.  Given that I'm working to a scale of 4mm - 1ft, no wonder there's confusion.

John

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The metric/imperial confuses us all John - they should go one way or the other !!!  At least it's no problem here in France where it's all "Napoleonic" ..............:lol::lol:

What have you used for the chassis weights ?  There's not much room to get anything hefty in there. I wonder if anyone has tried the "liquid gravity" I've seen advertised :roll:

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I've used Liquid gravity on some N gauge items, quite effective, pour it into the space you want it to go, pour on a few drops of super glue and allow it to seep through.

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I find inches works for me when working with wood but mm is so much better than 64ths for modelling. :roll:

As for weight, I stuck in some self adhesive weights procured a while ago.  I topped that off with a lump of lead from my weight box.  I aim for 50g.

I have used liquid lead Mike, and still have some lying around I think.  You mention securing it with super glue.  I have read that PVA corrodes the pellets and causes them to swell.  This has had disastrous effects.

Now for progress:



The wagon construction now complete.  I thought that PolyS concrete looks a lot like natural wood.  Not that it matters much since this wagn will have a sheeted load - more on that later.   Body colour is LMS freight grey or my version of it anyway.  I had some Railmatch from a zillion years ago but it's gone now.  I made it up from memory by sploshing various colours into a jar until I thought the shade is about right.  Again, it doesn't much matter since the wagon will be weathered.  Looks like that has started from the dirty fingermarks.

Note the Kadee, #158 fine head.



Installation of the Kadee couldn't be simpler, I simply glued it.  The 0.020" card sets the height correctly.  Knuckle hinge should be in line with the buffer heads.

John

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On the subject of wagon & coach weights.
You could use the stick on weights that are used for balance weights on alloy wheels. They come in strips from 5 to 60 gram weights.
Most tyre suppliers would have them.

Tony.

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amdaley wrote: On the subject of wagon & coach weights.
You could use the stick on weights that are used for balance weights on alloy wheels. They come in strips from 5 to 60 gram weights.
Most tyre suppliers would have them.

Tony.


Now there's an idea Tony.  Are they the sort of moon-shaped weights they hammer onto the wheel rim or am I out of date .................:roll::roll:

Never having seen a #158 coupler John, is there a big difference between it and my usual standard No 5 ...........?

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Petermac wrote: amdaley wrote: On the subject of wagon & coach weights.
You could use the stick on weights that are used for balance weights on alloy wheels. They come in strips from 5 to 60 gram weights.
Most tyre suppliers would have them.

Tony.


Now there's an idea Tony.  Are they the sort of moon-shaped weights they hammer onto the wheel rim or am I out of date .................:roll::roll:

Never having seen a #158 coupler John, is there a big difference between it and my usual standard No 5 ...........?

No Peter.
They look like this
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adhesive-Wheel-Balancing-Weights-Strips/dp/B00AKXC54Q
You just peel off the backing paper & stick them on any flat surface.

Tony.

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Good idea Tony.  Those weights look very like the ones I'm using.  I got them from my hobby shop and, yes, I probably paid too much.

Peter, I have used I don't know how many #5 couplings over the years and they are very good.  The phosphor bronze spring is a bit of a fiddle though.  Kadee came out with a similar coupling to the #5, the #58 which has whisker springs instead of the PB springs.  These are easier to assemble and probably cheaper (for Kadee) than the PB spring.  The #5 might have been discontinued - don't know for sure.

The #158 has a knuckle which is finer - scale for the HO people. 

I have used loads of the NEM couplers as well, but I find them very clunky looking - I chose #158 because it is much less obtrusive.  I also remove the trip pin which looks ridiculous on unfitted wagons, but, for those that want magnetic uncoupling the trip pin is indispensable.

John


Correction time:

In my coupling box, which I just now raided because I need couplings for the two vans, I discovered a booboo.

I'm using #58 which have the "scale" head but with the PB spring, very much like #5, medium centerset shank.  There is another range, #s 153, 156, 158 with short, medium and long shanks, also with "scale" head but with the whisker spring.  The Kadee product range is very confusing.

Last edited on Sun Jul 17th, 2016 09:54 pm by Brossard

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Thanks John.

I use the #5 plus gearbox for any non NEM TL's I'm replacing.  I usually glue the gearbox to the chassis - time will tell if that short-cut is a mistake.  To date, I haven't had to replace any.

For stock with NEM pockets, I use (I think) #15 # 17# 18 & #19 depending on the length required although height is often a problem with different manufacturers.  So much for "standards" ..............it beats me why they can't all use the same height.  It matters not one jot to the cost where the pocket is mounted but it does if we want to go down thew Kadee route ..........

I bought one of their little jigs to assemble the gearboxes - much less fiddly than trying to do it by hand ...............:roll::roll:

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I used to use small bolts and nuts to secure the GB to the chassis.  I've since realised that ordinary Testors gel glue does a very good job.  So much for engineering.

As for NEMs, I've never seen #15 and you left out #20.:It's a no no  I think I might have used a #17 once in conjunction with a #18 to get my DMU close coupled.  Otherwise, for most applications they're just too short.  I use #18 most often on goods wagons and #20s on coaches.

I have the jig you refer to.  It was used to assemble #7 (and family) couplings - what a faff.  Thankfully, #7 is discontinued.

We must remember that Kadee mostly cater to the US market and develop various types to suit US rolling stock.

John

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#17, 18, 19 and 20 are the NEM 'fishtail' couplings.

I agree, the range is extremely confusing!

:mutley :mutley :mutley

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Ok, so I've finished the build of these kits:




I can see areas where paint touchup is needed.

Transfers next - shudder!

John

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So, yesterday the muse took me and I decided to have a transfer day'  I lettered the wagons:




Slaters transfers are very good.  I used them like waterslide although the instructions talk about rubbing them with a biro.

I used Micro Sol (blue and red although I'm still not clear on the difference) to seat them.  I finally sprayed with Testor "lusterless" varnish.

Notice how unobtrusive the Kadee "scale" head couplings are, especially with the trip pin cut off.

Weathering next.

John

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Not as awful as you were expecting, John?

They look pretty good to me.  :thumbs

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Looking good at this distance John. :thumbs

Is "Micro Sol" similar to Decal Fix I wonder ...............:hmm

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Is Decal Fix from Humbrol Peter?  Both versions of Micro Sol soften the transfer to make it hug the surface - smells like vinegar.  In this case the surface is pretty smooth so not really an issue.

I've tried most everything there is for transfers.

Many years ago Humbrol had a two part system.  Part 1 was brushed on the surface and kept things slippery enough that the transfer could be teased into place - very handy for lining.  Part 2 was a fixer.  It seems to have been discontinued.

Not awful at all Max, in fact I'm very happy with them.

John

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Petermac wrote:
Looking good at this distance John. :thumbs

Is "Micro Sol" similar to Decal Fix I wonder ...............:hmm


Micro Sol and Micro Set are the two parts of a decal setting system...they are very good especially for setting decals on rough ,irregular surfaces......more can be read here.. https://www.bare-metal.com/decals/microscale_1.html

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I meant the process, John.  I've had to do a batch recently and I was dreading it, but it was OK.

Yours look like they have turned out well.  :thumbs


The Micro Set in the blue bottle is to prepare the surface for water slide decals.   I left a large drop in the area so I could float the decals into position.  I used two sharp pointed instruments.  Then press the decal dry with a clean tissue.

The Micro Sol in the red bottle is to soften the decal so that it will mould itself around any irregularities on the surface - like planks or ribs.

It's added last with a dropper.  It's important not to touch the decal at this stage - just let it dry.

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It was an all day job to do everything.  I dislike it, especially putting on numbers one digit at a time - forever having the earlier digit going ahoo and fixing.

Interesting link Gene, as usual I'm doing everything the wrong way round.  Anyway, it all turned out well in the end.  Particularly important is the coat of varnish that protects the transfer.

Of course, if you're using Pressfix, you want the surface to be dry so as to position the transfer.  I always end up teasing it afterwards and I don't think I've ever got one spot on the first time.

John

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Had the urge to weather the wagons today:










My usual formula - airbrush some earth followed by black.  Quite light coats as you can see.  This was followed with tiny amounts of black powder in the crevices and along the ironmongery spread with a medium brush.  I put the tiniest amount of rust where the iron brackets are, on the springs and W irons and on the solebar.  If the rust was too prominent, I put a small amount of black over it.

I ran a silver pencil over door handles, buffer heads and hook - where you'd get continuous use.

John

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Nice work, John, I've never used an air-brush [but soon hope to] and as for decals, can these miracle products really get a [for instance] GWR letter to mould smoothly around a rivet detail or strapping?

Doug

Last edited on Mon Aug 8th, 2016 10:48 pm by Chubber

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Thanks Doug and yes I do believe you can get lettering to mould to rivets.  Patience and perseverance are the watchwords when applying decals.  Make sure to have spares too - you will wreck some. :roll:

If you haven't got an airbrush, get a medium priced system - don't get cheap.  The most expensive doesn't offer much additional value IMO.  A compressor is a good investment too.

Developing skills like airbrushing and, dare I say, soldering really open new vistas to the modeller.

John


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While waiting for parts for a couple of other projects, I thought I'd pick up my Jubilee 3500 gal tender again.  The saga began on page 16.

Over the last couple of days I've been filing, bending, pressing out rivets and singeing my fingers.  For all that the body is nearly done:







I would rate this as a great kit.  It is not easy and has taxed all my experience at getting small things soldered on.  There's a fair bit of fettling but overall the parts are an excellent fit.

After taking the pics, I gave the whole thing a wash.

Note that I have transplanted the Bachmann decoder plug.

Very satisfying build.

John

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Finished the body today:







I do need to work on my technique for getting castings (lost wax brass) soldered.  I found it very difficult, needing lots of heat.

Steps are quite fragile and you can see one is bent.  No matter, I'll bend it back.

I'm sure it will look OK after priming.

John

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I'm sure that it will, John.  :cool:

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Most encouraging Max.  The picture above shows that the coal doors are leaning forward :twisted:, it's pretty obvious so I'll need to correct it.

Got on with the chassis tonight.  Would have been straightforward only I'd ordered the EM kit.  No problem, just separate the two frames and use 00 spacers.  Drat it!  I only have EM spacers, so I had to hack some of these down to suit.

Here's the chassis on the jig:




No issues joining them together.

And here's the chassis wheeled up:




Thankfully all the wheels appear to be touching the rails.

Brakes next.

John

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I'm still confident.  :cool:

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Brakes on today - a lot of faffing, usually easier than this.







The brakes could use some adjustment I think, I'll give that a go.

You know as I compare this to the Bachmann model, it is scary.  As good as this kit is, Bachmann's model is in many ways quite a bit better.  For example, the brake rodding (still in its' packet) appears to be way more detailed than this.  I may have mentioned before that I only do kits when there's no RTR alternative, as here.

John

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Over the last several days, I primed the parts. 




The body, chassis and wheels were initially sprayed with metal primer.  I let this dry for a day or so.  I followed up with red oxide primer on the body to serve as an undercoat for the maroon.  Maroon is a translucent colour and is very sensitive to the undercoat shade.

Since this was taken, I painted the wheels and chassis black.

This morning I used my airbrush to spray on the maroon (Badger D&MIR Maroon to be precise - for those overseas unable to get crimson lake this colour is cock on).

John

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Proper job, John.  :thumbs

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Brossard wrote: Thanks Doug and yes I do believe you can get lettering to mould to rivets.  Patience and perseverance are the watchwords when applying decals.  Make sure to have spares too - you will wreck some. :roll:

If you haven't got an airbrush, get a medium priced system - don't get cheap.  The most expensive doesn't offer much additional value IMO.  A compressor is a good investment too.

Developing skills like airbrushing and, dare I say, soldering really open new vistas to the modeller.

John




Thanks for this, John, airbrush has arrived.....

I thought I was familiar with the concept of 'making a mess' until it arrived....:oops:

It will be some time before I shall try it on anything 'precious', so far I have green, black and rust coloured fingernails, and a collection of old bits of wagon in similar shades!

Doug


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Well, Doug, I use my airbrush for weathering - you can't beat it for getting that oh so light and feathery dusty look.  I also use it for "precious" things, that is, those items where I can't get away with brush painting - like this tender.

Mine's double acting which lets you vary how much paint gets into the airflow.  Takes a bit of practice but I'm getting there.  Another thing I'm OCD about is cleaning after every session - tedious but I think it pays.

John

Last edited on Thu Aug 18th, 2016 08:35 pm by Brossard

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Thanks John,

Doug

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make no mistake claening after a session is a must if you want to keep things right, as for practise try using a pane of glass to practise on,easy to clean hard to make paint cling without runs,, crack that and you can spray anything
:thumbs;-):cool:
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Good advice Owen.

John

 

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What a brilliant idea! Thanks, Owen,

Doug

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Hi John,

Nicely done that man!

One thing I've found over the years about airbrushing is to keep the pressure down (and use a moisture trap). Cleaning up thoroughly with the correct solvent between colors or at the end is a must - nothing worse than trying to free up those tiny jets when they're clogged with paint. My Paasch system (medium price, single action) has 3 different sized jets, and it's possible to get down to widths of less than 1mm with the smallest one.

One tip for Doug - if you are airbrushing and need to do something else for even 15 seconds, have a reservoir of solvent handy, swap over and rinse the airbrush until the spray is clean (spray on white kitchen towel).

I like Owen's glass tip. Virgin styrene can also be used for practice.

Nigel

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Tender is painted and varnished! :Happy



I put it on the chassis loosely and still need to finalise the mounting.

Despite having loads of lights for these photos they always seem to be dark.  I can use Picasa to lighten them.  Must visit a photography store to get some decent lights.

Lining next - shudder.

John

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now that looks the biz,you have to be pleased with that
:thumbs;-):cool:
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Yes thanks Owen.  Still a fair bit to do.

Went to a photography store today and got myself a mini photo studio kit.  It's got a little stage that is just right for small models, various backdrops, lights (of course!) and a small tripod.  I'll see how that performs.

John

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well well I also went to the photo shop , got myself a new camera today, snap will see how it performs:roll:
:thumbs;-):cool:
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Ooooh - all singing and all dancing is it?  Mines an ancient Olympus digital but it takes excellent pictures.

John

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Chubber wrote:
Brossard wrote: Thanks Doug and yes I do believe you can get lettering to mould to rivets.  Patience and perseverance are the watchwords when applying decals.  Make sure to have spares too - you will wreck some. :roll:

If you haven't got an airbrush, get a medium priced system - don't get cheap.  The most expensive doesn't offer much additional value IMO.  A compressor is a good investment too.

Developing skills like airbrushing and, dare I say, soldering really open new vistas to the modeller.

John




Thanks for this, John, airbrush has arrived.....

I thought I was familiar with the concept of 'making a mess' until it arrived....:oops:

It will be some time before I shall try it on anything 'precious', so far I have green, black and rust coloured fingernails, and a collection of old bits of wagon in similar shades!

Doug




Doug...if I may..what type of airbrush did you get and what type/brand of paint are you using?

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Brossard wrote:
Yes thanks Owen.  Still a fair bit to do.

Went to a photography store today and got myself a mini photo studio kit.  It's got a little stage that is just right for small models, various backdrops, lights (of course!) and a small tripod.  I'll see how that performs.

John


John...can you give me the name, brand or some more info on your mini studio kit. Sounds like something I could use.

Cheers
Gene

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I also use an olympus digi, but have just got a canon 1200,which I prefer as I have an old 35mm one which I used a lot, never could afford a digital till now
:thumbs;-):cool:
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Save yourself some spends for when you are here Owen!

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Hi Gene:

This is it:

http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod6570.htm

In my search I saw an ad for as low as $100.

Can't say yet whether it works for me since I haven't used it.

When I went out I had in mind one of those umbrella thingies but the shop didn't have any.

Owen, I wouldn't say that I'm into photography so I don't want to shell a lot of dosh on a fancy camera.

John

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Brossard wrote:
Hi Gene:

This is it:

http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod6570.htm

In my search I saw an ad for as low as $100.

Can't say yet whether it works for me since I haven't used it.

When I went out I had in mind one of those umbrella thingies but the shop didn't have any.

Owen, I wouldn't say that I'm into photography so I don't want to shell a lot of dosh on a fancy camera.

John


Awesome John. So you bought it at a local shop or ordered it from this website??

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No Gene, I bought it at a shop locally.

John

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Thanks John.

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Hi John,

That is a nice (and compact) mini studio. I like the curvy design to the light boxes, that should really eliminate the shadows. Puts my 3 sheets of white foam board and a white light to shame. I may have to upgrade. Does a 60' coach fit in there? (in 4mm scale of course).

Nigel

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Something new for a change.

Bachmanns' LNWR G2 0-8-0 loco is superb.  I've had mine for several years and it is a great runner.  The other day, I was reviewing the model and I'm still impressed....mostly.

Looking at it, the tender is badly let down by the wheels which are thick and clunky looking.  They are, in fact, some 2.9mm wide with a flange of ~ 0.75mm.

Having a suitable tender chassis kit in stock, I decided to give the tender a bit of an upgrade:




Nothing wrong with the body or frames.

First order of business was to find suitable wheels...well I couldn't.  I've got loads of wheels but none with the distinctive 10 spoke design (I assume Bachmann did their homework to get that detail right).  So, I got out my file and worked away at the Bachmann wheels.  The backs were reduce by 0.25mm to give a flange thickness of 0.5mm.  The fronts were thinned until the overall width was 2.2mm.  These dimensions conform to EM.

The Comet chassis kit is in the middle.  It is generic however, so if anyone has any drawings or details of the tender chassis it would be appreciated.  I've got what I consider to be a quite good library of technical books but very little on this loco.

John

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Busy with the tender chassis today.  A bit of one foot forward and 2 feet back today when I realised that, while my chassis wheelbase is 7' x 7', the G2 wheelbase is 6' 10" x 6' 10" - drat!

I cut the chassis into three pieces and used my chassis jig to keep everything straight and accurate while I fished the frames together.

I ended up with this:




Front is to the right.  Brake rigging is unusual on this tender and I think I've mostly captured the look.  I used bits and bobs and lots of wire to do it.

In my fervour to assemble the brakes, it didn't dawn on me until after I was done that I can't get the wheels off :roll:.  Never mind, I'll just have to hand paint instead of spray.

Here the chassis is loosely fitted to the frames:




I packed the inside of the frames with 1mm thick plastic card.

John

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Thank goodness for the chassis jig :shock:

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You're right about that Marty - a very useful bit of kit.  I was worried that it wouldn't get a workout but I have used it quite often lately.

As for the brake rigging, I had a think and decided that:

1)  It sits too low and
2) The brake pul rods are too thick - should be wire I'm thinking

I will take it apart today and rejig everything.  I suspect the brake hangers are a tad too long.  This time I might just paint it before making wheel removal too difficult.

It's no good putting something out there that you know to be wrong.

John

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So, as I mentioned, I've redone the rigging:







This looks much more convincing.  I used 0.45mm NS wire for the brake pull rod.  I scaled the real brake pull rod from a photo and got 0.38mm.

Quite happy with this. :cheers 

I've got to have a good look at the ride height, not sure all is as it should be.

John

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The new rods are worth the effort, John.  :thumbs

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Glad you think so Max. 

I did look at the ride height and added 0.5mm (0.020") to the packing to get it correct.

John

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Those of you who follow this might be forgiven for wondering where the Jubilee went.  Well, over the last couple of weeks I've been working on it here and there. and today, as Max might say, Viola!  I mated the tender to the loco and it works!  :doublethumb:cheers







I also detailed the loco, adding steps, brake rigging, screw link coupling and crew.  I used the short drawbar.  In my usual fashion, I thinned the bogie wheels by filing down the backs by ~ 0.25mm.

John

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So, I've put the G2 back together:







Apart from the tender upgrade, I installed a screw link coupling on the front.  I originally had a NEM #18 installed but that REALLY looks bad.

Note the crew, a necessity I believe.

Anyone who owns this model may be confounded by the front guard irons.  Bachmann leave a pad for them but don't offer any advice as to how to fix them.  My first attempt was contact cement but, while this holds them, it will not withstand any handling and mine came off.

My fix for this was to drill 0.032 holes in the Mazak - tedious but doable.  I then drilled the guard irons and soldered 0.032 brass wire to them.  The guard irons are inserted into the holes and secured with CA - much better.

At the rear of the tender is a #58 Kadee, glued to plastic pads which in turn are glued to the chassis.  Difficult to see which is a good thing I think.

Vac pipes are Markits wire wound.  I like these because they can be cut and bent to replicate just about any of the dangly bits.  Sadly I've run out.  My order from AGW includes a load of vac pipes and steam pipes.

John

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Hi John.   Some persons like to have the droploghts open and others don't , and it adds to realism, better than just "Bunging a piece of Plastic in from the back". The way I would do it? When are we going to see the Finished job, painted, lined, and transfers too?   All the best. Kevin

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Not with you Kevin, are we talking about the LSWR coaches?  These are complete with pictures here.  Post 62 on page 4.

John

Last edited on Mon Jan 23rd, 2017 08:50 pm by Brossard

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Hi John.  Sorry about that, I thought that I had got to the end, but I will look again. Kevin

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Hi John.    Thank you, excellent really marvellous , I will have to email this to myself so that I don't lose the thread or the "Plot". Then I can file it under "Railways".   All the best. Kevin


                 

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